Anne Sacoolas


Jamie123
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25 minutes ago, Vort said:

But why would people want to expend their ammo on this case? A woman accidentally drove on the wrong side of the road and, with no malice or evil intent, killed someone by her accidental but technically illegal action. Is this a hill worth dying on? I'm genuinely baffled by the intensity of emotion here.

You're quite right of course - her original crime was nothing. It could have happened to anyone. I think what really gets under my skin is that she abused her position to get away with it, while any other American in the UK would have had to have faced the music. What she did showed a total disregard for the grieving family of the victim.

But you're right I've got to let this go. Sparring with Anatess and Estradling is only making me more and more angry. I need to take a step back and just pray for them all - especially for Anne Sacoolas herself.

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1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

You're quite right of course - her original crime was nothing. It could have happened to anyone. I think what really gets under my skin is that she abused her position to get away with it, while any other American in the UK would have had to have faced the music. What she did showed a total disregard for the grieving family of the victim.

I'm wondering... What would be the punishment if she were found guilty of the accident which caused the death of a UK citizen?

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2 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

You're quite right of course - her original crime was nothing. It could have happened to anyone. I think what really gets under my skin is that she abused her position to get away with it, while any other American in the UK would have had to have faced the music. What she did showed a total disregard for the grieving family of the victim.

But you're right I've got to let this go. Sparring with Anatess and Estradling is only making me more and more angry. I need to take a step back and just pray for them all - especially for Anne Sacoolas herself.

Dunno why it's making you angry.  We all agree that the right thing for Sacoolas to do is to face the music.  Where you're getting angry is you're thinking it's all Trump's fault somehow.

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34 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Dunno why it's making you angry.  We all agree that the right thing for Sacoolas to do is to face the music.  Where you're getting angry is you're thinking it's all Trump's fault somehow.

Agreed the right thing to do would be for her to do so... 

But the right thing is rarely an easy thing to do.  How many of us would be willing to go to jail (for however long it might be) and be separated from our spouses and kids...  When we have a much easier legal out?

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18 hours ago, Mores said:

I'm wondering... What would be the punishment if she were found guilty of the accident which caused the death of a UK citizen?

I don't think it wold make any difference to the sentence if the victim were a UK citizen or a forign national. According to this document the maximum you could get for causing death by careless driving is 5 years, though in practice that would actually mean 2.5 years. (In the UK it's pretty much the rule that if you don't make trouble in prison you only serve half your time.) It also says that could be cut by a third if the defendant pleads guilty - so that would mean 1 year and 8 months. The impression I get from surfing around (here for instance) is that even this is exceptional, and many offenders are not actually jailed at all - though they are made to jump through a few hoops before they're allowed to drive again.

16 hours ago, estradling75 said:

But the right thing is rarely an easy thing to do.  How many of us would be willing to go to jail (for however long it might be) and be separated from our spouses and kids...  When we have a much easier legal out?

I can't help thinking that going on with life "as normal" after something like this would be almost as bad as going to prison. What respect will she ever have from her friends and neighbours? When she tells her kids "Go tidy your rooms" they'll say "No we won't! If you don't have to face up to your responsibilities then neither do we!" And it'll be no use her punishing them, because she'll know they're right, and they'll know they're right.

Edited by Jamie123
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9 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

I can't help thinking that going on with life "as normal" after something like this would be almost as bad as going to prison. What respect will she ever have from her friends and neighbours? When she tells her kids "Go tidy your rooms" they'll say "No we won't! If you don't have to face up to your responsibilities then neither do we!" And it'll be no use her punishing them, because she'll know they're right, and they'll know they're right.

It is very possible... but knowing if you can live with yourself afterward is something you might not know until you have tried it.  The power of denial can be very strong when you also factor in that the Rule of Law says you are free from this responsibility.

As for the children's disobedience  that is a possibility.  But if we are evaluating the impact on the kids we can't ignore the "We are all messed up because when we needed you most you were in jail." factor.  It seems of the two extremes of possibilities the one were the parent is present is more manageable. Or the more sensible risk to take, for the well being of your children. 

Lets again examine the factors...  The Law which could compel her is saying she is free...  It is understandable if you do not like this but your only option is to work to change the UK laws and agreements so this can not happen again.

Next would be fear of God.  Repentance is possible...  but they have to face it.  Sadly the world is growing more and more anti-god every day.  The UK is right out in front and the USA is not that far behind.  It is understandable if you do not like this but your only real option is to work... Missionary work.

Finally would be individual ethics or morality.   People like to talk big about how others should "Do The Right Thing"... But when they have to pay personally the suddenly "Doing the Right Thing" looks very different.  It usually looks like this in descending order of importance, "What is best for me, what is best for my family, what is best for my friends, what is best for my neighbors.. etc."   This is just human nature that on the individual level ethics and morality usually take a back seat to practicality.  It is understandable if you do not like this...  That is one of the reason we have Laws... that is one of the reason we have Religion/God.

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22 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Dunno why it's making you angry.  We all agree that the right thing for Sacoolas to do is to face the music.  Where you're getting angry is you're thinking it's all Trump's fault somehow.

Just for the record Anatess, I do appreciate our exchanges. I'm way too quick to jump on the soap box, and it does me good to have have someone like you to push me off. Even if I do usually jump straight back on again!

Edited by Jamie123
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15 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Just for the record Anatess, I do appreciate our exchanges. I'm way too quick to jump on the soap box, and it does me good to have have someone like you to push me off. Even if I do usually jump straight back on again!

Same here Jamie123.  I like a good discussion even if we're on different sides of the fence... and I can even honestly say that I like it better if I'm talking to somebody from a different perspective because it expands my noggin.  It's like playing tennis - my game gets better when I'm pitting myself against somebody who makes me work for every stroke.

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On 10/18/2019 at 6:52 PM, anatess2 said:

Well, @Jamie123, the Dunn's just nuked their one and slim chance of getting Sacoolas to face justice.  You don't attack Trump like that, especially after he does something for you when he didn't need to, and get him to work for your side.

If you're referring to the "she's in the next room" thing, I'm not surprised. They'd said already they wouldn't meet her unless she committed to returning to the UK, and old Trump pulls a reality TV style ambush like this. Of course they were cross - wouldn't you have been?

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14 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

If you're referring to the "she's in the next room" thing, I'm not surprised. They'd said already they wouldn't meet her unless she committed to returning to the UK, and old Trump pulls a reality TV style ambush like this. Of course they were cross - wouldn't you have been?

Yep.  That's what the MSM said.  Of course, you're going to parrot it complete with the word "ambush". 

Listen to what you (well, the MSM really) said - the Dunn's will not meet Sacoolas unless she committed to returning to the UK... The Dunn's are the ones that need Sacoolas to return to the UK, not Sacoolas.  Why would the Dunn's make that ultimatum like Sacoolas is the one needing something from them???  It is to Sacoolas' advantage not to have to see them, talk to them, meet them, or anything!  That's why she's in the US and not the UK!  And what would Trump gain from it?  You think he cares about a Dunn/Sacoolas optic after he just boldly withdrew troops from Syria???   Do you see why they call them Fake News?

Edited by anatess2
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45 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yep.  That's what the MSM said.  Of course, you're going to parrot it complete with the word "ambush". 

Listen to what you (well, the MSM really) said - the Dunn's will not meet Sacoolas unless she committed to returning to the UK... The Dunn's are the ones that need Sacoolas to return to the UK, not Sacoolas.  Why would the Dunn's make that ultimatum like Sacoolas is the one needing something from them???  It is to Sacoolas' advantage not to have to see them, talk to them, meet them, or anything!  That's why she's in the US and not the UK!  And what would Trump gain from it?  You think he cares about a Dunn/Sacoolas optic after he just boldly withdrew troops from Syria???   Do you see why they call them Fake News?

Indeed... what kind of world are people living in that they expect people to walk up and say?  "Yes I would like to go to jail now."  The UK gave Sacoolas a legal out and she took it.  If the UK wants her... they have to offer her something she wants more.  For Sacoolas one would hope it would be something like lifting of the sense of guilt... But that does not seem likely.

If UK wants the US to extradite her the UK something it wants more then to protect one of its own that had immunity. 

It is not the US or Sacoolas that need to be making overtures.  They are the one with the power to make "She not meet with the UK reps or return unless..." statements.  Not the UK. 

Button line is I am sure Sacoolas will be more then grateful to never meet Dunn or return to the UK.  To make such a threat shows they really do not have a clue.

 

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4 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Indeed... what kind of world are people living in that they expect people to walk up and say?  "Yes I would like to go to jail now."  The UK gave Sacoolas a legal out and she took it.  If the UK wants her... they have to offer her something she wants more.  For Sacoolas one would hope it would be something like lifting of the sense of guilt... But that does not seem likely.

If UK wants the US to extradite her the UK something it wants more then to protect one of its own that had immunity. 

It is not the US or Sacoolas that need to be making overtures.  They are the one with the power to make "She not meet with the UK reps or return unless..." statements.  Not the UK. 

Button line is I am sure Sacoolas will be more then grateful to never meet Dunn or return to the UK.  To make such a threat shows they really do not have a clue.

 

The Dunn/Sacoolas meet-up was a good-faith attempt by Trump to get Sacoolas to face the magnitude of her actions.  The MSMs - with the help of the Dunns (knowingly or unknowingly) - made it into another anti-Trump attack.  Because... I guess they can't help themselves regardless of who they hurt in the process.

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1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

The Dunn/Sacoolas meet-up was a good-faith attempt by Trump to get Sacoolas to face the magnitude of her actions.  The MSMs - with the help of the Dunns (knowingly or unknowingly) - made it into another anti-Trump attack.  Because... I guess they can't help themselves regardless of who they hurt in the process.

Right... Trump is trying to work things to get Justice (which is what Jamie claims to want and expect) while balancing all his other legal responsibilities.

Yet they are so blinded by Trump hate they will spite themselves and lose what they claim to want for a shot at Trump

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  • 4 weeks later...

There is actually a new theory making traction that Epstein isn’t dead. I guess if you compare his living silhouette to the dead silhouette, some features do not match. There may be more to it, that is just the snippet I saw.

 

BC652917-BAFE-4D55-A7C4-6D5D937E3B7C.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

There is actually a new theory making traction that Epstein isn’t dead. I guess if you compare his living silhouette to the dead silhouette, some features do not match. There may be more to it, that is just the snippet I saw.

 

BC652917-BAFE-4D55-A7C4-6D5D937E3B7C.jpeg

This theory floated a few minutes after Epstein's death hit the news.  The chans got video of some Epstein-looking guy getting escorted into a black suv.

Then not too long ago some Middle Eastern rich dude bought Epstein Island...

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  • 1 month later...

So the US is now "venting fury" that Anne Sacoolas has been charged.

"Fury" that this woman should be subject to the same law as everyone else??? Oh to be sure...they don't have to comply with any extradition request. ("Might is right" and all that.) And they probably won't. But as for their "fury" I hope the UK tells 'em to "vent it at the hand, 'coz the face ain't listening".

(To be fair though, the title of this video is a bit misleading - there's nothing in it about US "fury". That's Sky News trying to provoke angry rants from people like me. And succeeding.)

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13 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

(To be fair though, the title of this video is a bit misleading - there's nothing in it about US "fury". That's Sky News trying to provoke angry rants from people like me. And succeeding.)

Glad you recognize the Fakeness of the pushed perception.  There's no "fury" in the US, of course.  It's just same-o same-o... 

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3 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

So the US is now "venting fury" that Anne Sacoolas has been charged.

"Fury" that this woman should be subject to the same law as everyone else??? Oh to be sure...they don't have to comply with any extradition request. ("Might is right" and all that.) And they probably won't. But as for their "fury" I hope the UK tells 'em to "vent it at the hand, 'coz the face ain't listening".

(To be fair though, the title of this video is a bit misleading - there's nothing in it about US "fury". That's Sky News trying to provoke angry rants from people like me. And succeeding.)

I have heard nothing about this. My guess is that most Americans don't know about this at all, and those who do probably tend to think she should be held accountable for her actions. So the "venting fury" thing is nonsense, as you note.

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