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Anddenex

Itching Ears -- Alive and Well

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What is it about human nature that, even in the gospel, allow the entertainment of false teachings and doctrines (That people are so easily tossed by the wind to and fro)? Or, that allow individuals to take a statement, wrest it, and make it appear something it isn't in order to prosper their agenda.

Here is one that I have read recently, not an exact quote, "Part of trusting God is questioning him." To give benefit of the doubt, maybe this individual was simply saying, "Part of trusting in God is asking questions and learning from him"? Although, the first statement is not simply asking a question to learn, but questioning.

Christ is our greatest example, and by whom he said we should be like unto. I can't find anywhere in all scripture where Christ "questioned" his Father. He did in fact ask questions, how else did he learn?

I have a friend who recently left the Church, and explains now how he has found out so much knowledge. He is very open now about how his decision was through honest inquiry and critical thinking (nothing new, this is what they all say -- similar to, "your decision is through emotion mine is through logic and history). He appears to really like this guy Anthony Miller. Anyone familiar with him?

Recently my friend quoted him with the following statement given by local leaders, "Do not feed your doubt." I thought it was interesting how he would wrest the following statement saying to the nature, "For those who offer honest and critical thinking we want to know more. We want to learn more. We want to know the truth." I am surprised that someone is confusing the desire to know with the concept of do not feed doubt. We feed faith, or as God says, "It is impossible to please him without faith." More itching ears, more false teachings and doctrines from those who profess an honest inquiry of truth.

Edited by Anddenex

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There is a million things to say on this topic... 

The “Logic vs emotion” argument often times often reveals itself to be laziness vs insight. Watch any MormonStories faith crisis interview and you will see it comes down to “Joseph Smith had multiple accounts of the first vision! I have now intellectually disproven the church and am smarter than everyone else and will now leave the church!”

Or perhaps they googled “why the church isn’t true” and read that Joseph Smith looked for treasure at a few points in his life and decided the info on mormonsRdevls.net.

Another thing they will say is “I was a fully active and faithful member of the church”, but then you will hear their life story and it will become apparent in many cases that they indeed were NOT.

Everyone wants to be the unique thoughtful and intelligent one that left for real reasons and no one wants to or claims to be the “I left cause I was lazy” person... “I did a TON of research” often translates into watching MormonStories and reading the CES letter.

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17 minutes ago, Fether said:

There is a million things to say on this topic... 

The “Logic vs emotion” argument often times often reveals itself to be laziness vs insight. Watch any MormonStories faith crisis interview and you will see it comes down to “Joseph Smith had multiple accounts of the first vision! I have now intellectually disproven the church and am smarter than everyone else and will now leave the church!”

Or perhaps they googled “why the church isn’t true” and read that Joseph Smith looked for treasure at a few points in his life and decided the info on mormonsRdevls.net.

Another thing they will say is “I was a fully active and faithful member of the church”, but then you will hear their life story and it will become apparent in many cases that they indeed were NOT.

Everyone wants to be the unique thoughtful and intelligent one that left for real reasons and no one wants to or claims to be the “I left cause I was lazy” person... “I did a TON of research” often translates into watching MormonStories and reading the CES letter.

I wanted to refrain from mentioning Mormon Stories, but my friend appears now to be part of this movement. Interesting that is the first item you shared.

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8 hours ago, Anddenex said:

I wanted to refrain from mentioning Mormon Stories, but my friend appears now to be part of this movement. Interesting that is the first item you shared.

When an active member leaves, MormonStories is often in there somewhere. I probably listen to one interview a month out of curiosity. I can’t take more than that though.

I find it both interesting and ridiculous the reasons why people leave. Some actually have some terrible things that happen to them and their reasons for leaving come from emotional abuse from leaders . But the vast majority of them say “I was a fully active member of the church that loved every second of it, but then I found out the truth of the church and I left”. but as they tell their life story, it become apparent that, though they attended church and held leadership callings, they really were not fully active, and many of the things they say make me question if they really understood the doctrines I’d the gospel.

And for anyone who goes and listens to it or seek out the CES Letter after reading this, just know everything that is said is taken out of context or they leave out key facts to fit their narrative. Don’t just take their word at face value. FairMormon has some incredible responses to everything (and I mean everything) that is said.

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As a new member, I don't spend time reading the anti stuff.  I never have.  I've often thought, though, if people put as much time into learning about Christ and his Church as they do tearing it down once they leave, they'd never have left.

Let's face it.  Being a member of the Church isn't exactly easy.  It would be so much easier to just agree that it was false and walk away.  That just wouldn't be the truth, though, and I'd always know it.

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11 hours ago, Scott said:

Matthew 27:46.  That's the only one I can think of.

This might be because English is not my first language but I see Matthew 27:46 as not the same kind of "questioning" referred to in the OP.  It's like when you're looking at a word in the dictionary, there's one definition written as #1 and then there's another usage written as #2 which is different from #1... and you can't really conflate the 2.

Matt 27:46 is not Jesus questioning God - especially not with the OP's nuance of coming from a default of disbelief.  Matt 27:46 is Jesus falling to his human nature in complete despair - He already knew the answer to the question.

 

Edited by anatess2

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12 hours ago, Scott said:

Matthew 27:46.  That's the only one I can think of.

That is a good scripture, and in my minds eye I believe @anatess2 answered it correctly. I don't see God "questioning" his Father in the same attitude as mentioned in my OP. I definitely see this question more as a plea, but in agreement with anatess2 - he already knew the answer. Similar to the question asked in the garden.

Nonetheless, a good scripture to point out for this thread.

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2 hours ago, Grunt said:

As a new member, I don't spend time reading the anti stuff.  I never have.  I've often thought, though, if people put as much time into learning about Christ and his Church as they do tearing it down once they leave, they'd never have left.

Let's face it.  Being a member of the Church isn't exactly easy.  It would be so much easier to just agree that it was false and walk away.  That just wouldn't be the truth, though, and I'd always know it.

Emphasized portion -- true, true, true. Hopefully, that was enough "true" to make the point. :)

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@Anddenex While on my mission I spent some time with Legrand Richards.  In our discussion he made a most profound and interesting statement.  Perhaps I may not remember it exactly but as best as I remember he said, "The only thing that keeps anyone from the church is sin".  I know a young man that went through a divorce.  He tried so hard to keep his temple marriage together - he believe the spirit was guiding him.  He read scriptures daily,  he attended the temple every week often multiple times a week.  When he was unable to save his marriage he became very distraught.   He thinks the church left him in his time of need.  He has voiced to me that he is closer to G-d now than ever before - one problem - he no longer keeps the law or covenant of chastity. 

I personally think doctrine is overrated.  Isaiah - through revelation and prophesy; instructs G-d's saints that man becomes separated from G-d not through doctrine and believing doctrine but by: #1. Transgressing the Law.  #2. Changing the Ordinances and #3. Breaking the Everlasting Covenant.

I have done this before but I would compare faith in G-d with faith in electrons.  Because of our faith in electrons - we will use a switch to turn on lights whenever we need light.  If the light does not come on - we do not lose faith in electrons - rather we change the light bulb.  If the light still does not come on - we do not lose faith in electrons - rather we think the circuit breaker has cut off power.  So we check and reset the circuit breaker.  If the light still does not come on we do not lose faith in electrons - rather we think our light switch is broken.  And so we continue to try many things without ever losing faith in electrons - perhaps concluding that something we cannot think of as the problem - but we never think or believe that electrons no longer work.  This despite that we know very little about electron, have never seen one or understand much about them.  We just have faith.

Where does our faith in electrons (or G-d) come from?  I do not believe it is because of doctrine concerning electrons.  It comes from truth and being responsible - meaning the understanding that there is always a reason, weather we understand the reason or not.  The opposite  of logic and responsibility is the lack of faith and responsibility.  Like my friend that refused to consider his own sins and desire to sin and break covenants - such that when the opportunity came - he took it.  Rather take responsibility some exercise their agency and blame - either G-d, - specifically his Laws, his Ordinances and his Everlasting Covenant.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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14 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

I personally think doctrine is overrated.  Isaiah - through revelation and prophesy; instructs G-d's saints that man becomes separated from G-d not through doctrine and believing doctrine but by: #1. Transgressing the Law.  #2. Changing the Ordinances and #3. Breaking the Everlasting Covenant.

The Traveler

I don't understand what you mean by this.  What do you believe "doctrine" is?

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

@Anddenex While on my mission I spent some time with Legrand Richards.  In our discussion he made a most profound and interesting statement.  Perhaps I may not remember it exactly but as best as I remember he said, "The only thing that keeps anyone from the church is sin".  I know a young man that went through a divorce.  He tried so hard to keep his temple marriage together - he believe the spirit was guiding him.  He read scriptures daily,  he attended the temple every week often multiple times a week.  When he was unable to save his marriage he became very distraught.   He thinks the church left him in his time of need.  He has voiced to me that he is closer to G-d now than ever before - one problem - he no longer keeps the law or covenant of chastity. 

I personally think doctrine is overrated.  Isaiah - through revelation and prophesy; instructs G-d's saints that man becomes separated from G-d not through doctrine and believing doctrine but by: #1. Transgressing the Law.  #2. Changing the Ordinances and #3. Breaking the Everlasting Covenant.

I have done this before but I would compare faith in G-d with faith in electrons.  Because of our faith in electrons - we will use a switch to turn on lights whenever we need light.  If the light does not come on - we do not lose faith in electrons - rather we change the light bulb.  If the light still does not come on - we do not lose faith in electrons - rather we think the circuit breaker has cut off power.  So we check and reset the circuit breaker.  If the light still does not come on we do not lose faith in electrons - rather we think our light switch is broken.  And so we continue to try many things without ever losing faith in electrons - perhaps concluding that something we cannot think of as the problem - but we never think or believe that electrons no longer work.  This despite that we know very little about electron, have never seen one or understand much about them.  We just have faith.

Where does our faith in electrons (or G-d) come from?  I do not believe it is because of doctrine concerning electrons.  It comes from truth and being responsible - meaning the understanding that there is always a reason, weather we understand the reason or not.  The opposite  of logic and responsibility is the lack of faith and responsibility.  Like my friend that refused to consider his own sins and desire to sin and break covenants - such that when the opportunity came - he took it.  Rather take responsibility some exercise their agency and blame - either G-d, - specifically his Laws, his Ordinances and his Everlasting Covenant.

 

The Traveler

The quote from your memory is an excellent quote and similar to the scripture you have shared regarding not living up to covenants. I, personally, do not believe people leave the Church except for "sin." My friend will say, "I did not leave because of weakness, because of sin, etc..." We forget, as he has forgotten, there are "divers" ways a person can sin. When they say they haven't sinned, they usually are referring to your big ones (i.e. adultery, word of wisdom, fornication, murder, etc...).

Thank you for the explanation and I think we might have a different of thought regarding doctrine. Doctrine, to me, is synonymous with truth -- or sound (true) doctrine. So, I would agree with your statement "It comes from truth and being responsible." But I would say, "It comes from [true doctrine] (truth) and being responsible. Faith is exercised in "true" principles. If not, it then is either counterfeit or false doctrine, by which humans can be "[as] children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

Which is why we have prophets, apostles, pastors... in order to help the Lord's little ones to know the source, true source. Which is also why, I would assume, that the first sign of apostasy is the mocking and disregard of prophets/patriarchs -- whose sole role is to bear witness of Christ and to bring us back into his presence.

The only thing I would change is the following, "I personally think [opinions about] is overrated. Doctrine, true doctrine, is how we "know" God, or come to know God. We have to be taught "truth" by which we then humble ourselves to receive the Lord's Spirit -- confirmation.

Itching ears, are people/individuals who are seeking doctrines (counterfeit/false) that appear to be true, but really suit their personal desires in this life. Or a decision to teach and to justify ones actions, especially when it pertains to leaving God's truth -- even though they say they haven't -- they have new found wisdom through logic and history.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Fether said:

...I find it both interesting and ridiculous the reasons why people leave. Some actually have some terrible things that happen to them and their reasons for leaving come from emotional abuse from leaders . But the vast majority of them say “I was a fully active member of the church that loved every second of it, but then I found out the truth of the church and I left”. but as they tell their life story, it become apparent that, though they attended church and held leadership callings, they really were not fully active, and many of the things they say make me question if they really understood the doctrines I’d the gospel...

Since you are familiar with Mormon Stories podcasts, may I recommend another podcast that might shed more light on people experiencing a faith crisis.

Allan and Kattie Mount are a married couple who have a podcast called Marriage on a Tightrope. Allan is now a non-believer, while Kattie is a believer. They share their experiences through this podcast with other married couples in similar circumstances. In one podcast they interview David Ostler who has written the book Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question. It is published by Kofford Books and Deseret Book also sells it. David was inspired to write the book because of a calling he and his wife received. He is a believing member of your Church.

I would recommend listening to this podcast if you wish to understand more about why members stop believing and attending.

M.

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21 hours ago, Grunt said:

I don't understand what you mean by this.  What do you believe "doctrine" is?

Doctrine is that subset that is expressible of what we think we understand.  I often wonder if the single most challenging aspect of human learning and understanding is to believe one has acquired an understanding of more than they could, ought to or actually have.  Obviously, I am a good example.  As most of us are - which is why arguing fine points of doctrine is hardly ever enlightening.   Especially among the brightest and most exercised in the fine points of doctrine.

 

The Traveler

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21 hours ago, Anddenex said:

The quote from your memory is an excellent quote and similar to the scripture you have shared regarding not living up to covenants. I, personally, do not believe people leave the Church except for "sin." My friend will say, "I did not leave because of weakness, because of sin, etc..." We forget, as he has forgotten, there are "divers" ways a person can sin. When they say they haven't sinned, they usually are referring to your big ones (i.e. adultery, word of wisdom, fornication, murder, etc...).

Thank you for the explanation and I think we might have a different of thought regarding doctrine. Doctrine, to me, is synonymous with truth -- or sound (true) doctrine. So, I would agree with your statement "It comes from truth and being responsible." But I would say, "It comes from [true doctrine] (truth) and being responsible. Faith is exercised in "true" principles. If not, it then is either counterfeit or false doctrine, by which humans can be "[as] children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

Which is why we have prophets, apostles, pastors... in order to help the Lord's little ones to know the source, true source. Which is also why, I would assume, that the first sign of apostasy is the mocking and disregard of prophets/patriarchs -- whose sole role is to bear witness of Christ and to bring us back into his presence.

The only thing I would change is the following, "I personally think [opinions about] is overrated. Doctrine, true doctrine, is how we "know" God, or come to know God. We have to be taught "truth" by which we then humble ourselves to receive the Lord's Spirit -- confirmation.

Itching ears, are people/individuals who are seeking doctrines (counterfeit/false) that appear to be true, but really suit their personal desires in this life. Or a decision to teach and to justify ones actions, especially when it pertains to leaving God's truth -- even though they say they haven't -- they have new found wisdom through logic and history.

 

 

I would make a point about counterfeits.  I did some work for the Federal Reserve Bank and asked for a never fail sure fire method to identify a counterfeit.  Thinking if I knew the secret I could outsmart those that intend to create the most cleaver counterfeits.  My host informed me that I was going about it all wrong.  What ever we think we know a counterfeiter can target and have the advantage in deceiving us. An example could be applied to religion - just about every Christian that argues doctrines; quotes scripture based on the assumption that scriptures are inviolate expressions  of true doctrine.  But when Christ was tempted by Satan - Satan quoted scripture in an effort to deceive him. 

My host at the Federal Reserve Bank informed me that there is only one sure way to always avoid counterfeit USA money.  He took a note from his wallet and pointed out that that the note was issued by the United States Treasure Department.  In addition there was a signature on the note by the secretary of the treasury.   He then explained that by Law the secretary of the treasury is the only source and has the ultimate power to issue legal USA money.  Therefore, the only way to know for sure if something is legal tender is to ask the secretary of the treasury - by Law whatever he says is legal is legal - whatever he says is counterfeit is counterfeit.  There are many individuals that work under the secretary of the treasury that (like our prophets and apostles) that can be helpful in determining counterfeits - but like the supreme court issuing the final interpretation of the Law; G-d alone has the power of the truth.

Note that Jesus in answering Satan said that we must live by every word that precedes from G-d and not just from scripture or the prophets.  The great error is to strive to live by doctrine rather than by the Law, the Ordinances and the Everlasting Covenant.  Now one can argue and say that in the end it is all just doctrine that we end up living by.  But like the Pharisees of olden times that take unto themselves that which is G-d's will in the end fall in service of the counterfeiter.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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3 hours ago, Traveler said:

Doctrine is that subset that is expressible of what we think we understand.  I often wonder if the single most challenging aspect of human learning and understanding is to believe one has acquired an understanding of more than they could, ought to or actually have.  Obviously, I am a good example.  As most of us are - which is why arguing fine points of doctrine is hardly ever enlightening.   Especially among the brightest and most exercised in the fine points of doctrine.

 

The Traveler

I don't entirely understand your response, either.  I accept that the failure to understand falls on me, not on you.  Thank you, though.

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On 11/14/2019 at 8:18 PM, Anddenex said:

What is it about human nature that, even in the gospel, allow the entertainment of false teachings and doctrines (That people are so easily tossed by the wind to and fro)? Or, that allow individuals to take a statement, wrest it, and make it appear something it isn't in order to prosper their agenda.

Oddly enough, such an imbalance is non-rational, even when rationality is highly prized (probably for that very reason!). Fear (and subsequent denial) of the emotional, spiritual and non-rational qualities of human nature cultivates a false dependency on rationality alone.

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On 11/15/2019 at 1:39 PM, Maureen said:

Since you are familiar with Mormon Stories podcasts, may I recommend another podcast that might shed more light on people experiencing a faith crisis.

Allan and Kattie Mount are a married couple who have a podcast called Marriage on a Tightrope. Allan is now a non-believer, while Kattie is a believer. They share their experiences through this podcast with other married couples in similar circumstances. In one podcast they interview David Ostler who has written the book Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question. It is published by Kofford Books and Deseret Book also sells it. David was inspired to write the book because of a calling he and his wife received. He is a believing member of your Church.

I would recommend listening to this podcast if you wish to understand more about why members stop believing and attending.

M.

I listened to it and it didn’t seem too much different than what is typically said. His experience is almost verbatim what everyone else’s was.

Life got stressful, found the church essays, decided the church wasn’t true and looked up more anti. Story as old as time.

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On 11/16/2019 at 11:52 AM, Grunt said:

I don't entirely understand your response, either.  I accept that the failure to understand falls on me, not on you.  Thank you, though.

Perhaps if I made another attempt?  The term "doctrine" is quite vague and if you do not mind I will give an example.  There are many scriptures that talk about "faith".  But what doctrine of faith is necessary for someone to exercise faith?  We can discuss the doctrine that it is not just faith but faith in Jesus Christ.  But then how much need we understand of Jesus Christ before we can exercise faith in him?  What is the "Doctrine" of Christ?  According to doctrine is the baptism of an 8 year old invalidated if their faith is based more in believing their parents than knowing or believing anything about Christ?  Believers in Christ can argue the points of doctrine - but to what purpose?

The purpose of Doctrine is to bring about obedience to the Law, submission to Ordinances and the keeping of the Commandments.  And those that are obedient to the Law, accepting of the Ordinances and devoted to the covenants - any misunderstanding of doctrine during our mortal probation will have no bearing in eternity.  Without the Law, Ordinances and Covenants; doctrine will not matter.  The hitch is when someone argues back that it is doctrine that without the Law, Ordinances and Covenants; doctrine will not matter.  And so they revert to the which came first - the chicken or the egg argument.  And I say it only matters under the Law, Ordinances and Covenants in that true doctrine will follow those that are loyal to the Law, Ordinances and Covenants.  Knowing the doctrine does not mean that keeping the Law, submitting to the ordinances and being loyal to the Covenants will follow - the example is Lucifer (which means the bearer of light) that knowing the doctrine failed to obey the Law, submit to the Ordinances and keep the Covenants and became Satan.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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On 11/14/2019 at 7:04 PM, Anddenex said:

I wanted to refrain from mentioning Mormon Stories, but my friend appears now to be part of this movement. Interesting that is the first item you shared.

I've never even heard of Mormon Stories outside of the book series published by Deseret. 

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:21 AM, Anddenex said:

The quote from your memory is an excellent quote and similar to the scripture you have shared regarding not living up to covenants. I, personally, do not believe people leave the Church except for "sin." My friend will say, "I did not leave because of weakness, because of sin, etc..." We forget, as he has forgotten, there are "divers" ways a person can sin. When they say they haven't sinned, they usually are referring to your big ones (i.e. adultery, word of wisdom, fornication, murder, etc...).

This makes me wonder why anyone still goes to this church. Everyone sins.

I have to disagree. Sin is not the cause of people leaving the church. I think they leave the church because they had a question and didn't get an answer that satisfied them. People remain active in church as long as their questions do not become the focus of their satisfaction. There are a lot of questions that cannot be answered right now. Most people who face these questions and stay are willing to accept that we don't have all the answers and will wait for a brighter day. Some people just ignore their questions and some people make their questions a hill they are willing to die over. It seems that once a person is confronted with the dilemma of a void instead of an answer, the wound festers and gets infected so that after a time, all the person can see is all that is wrong or is perceived to be wrong with the church.

But there are some who leave because they can do better outside the church than they can inside the church, I mean money-wise. There is the lure of instant popularity among a group of people who are very hungry for dirty laundry. I was listening to one disaffected member who spent a good deal of time explaining to these hungry listeners about how he cheated on his wife because the Holy Ghost told him too. I had to wonder how far these people were willing to go to get their dirt. He was very popular even though he wasn't a person who I would think was trustworthy.

 

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:21 AM, Anddenex said:

The quote from your memory is an excellent quote and similar to the scripture you have shared regarding not living up to covenants. I, personally, do not believe people leave the Church except for "sin." My friend will say, "I did not leave because of weakness, because of sin, etc..." We forget, as he has forgotten, there are "divers" ways a person can sin. When they say they haven't sinned, they usually are referring to your big ones (i.e. adultery, word of wisdom, fornication, murder, etc...).

Thank you for the explanation and I think we might have a different of thought regarding doctrine. Doctrine, to me, is synonymous with truth -- or sound (true) doctrine. So, I would agree with your statement "It comes from truth and being responsible." But I would say, "It comes from [true doctrine] (truth) and being responsible. Faith is exercised in "true" principles. If not, it then is either counterfeit or false doctrine, by which humans can be "[as] children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

Which is why we have prophets, apostles, pastors... in order to help the Lord's little ones to know the source, true source. Which is also why, I would assume, that the first sign of apostasy is the mocking and disregard of prophets/patriarchs -- whose sole role is to bear witness of Christ and to bring us back into his presence.

The only thing I would change is the following, "I personally think [opinions about] is overrated. Doctrine, true doctrine, is how we "know" God, or come to know God. We have to be taught "truth" by which we then humble ourselves to receive the Lord's Spirit -- confirmation.

Itching ears, are people/individuals who are seeking doctrines (counterfeit/false) that appear to be true, but really suit their personal desires in this life. Or a decision to teach and to justify ones actions, especially when it pertains to leaving God's truth -- even though they say they haven't -- they have new found wisdom through logic and history.

 

 

Drawing a connection between the parable of the electron and the light and your statement, I would suggest that doctrine is the electron. Doctrine is the correct application of the laws of God. In the same way, understanding how an electron works, if we understand it correctly, would help us understand why the light didn't go on when we flipped the switch. However, since the results of what we do, including sin, is not immediate, we can't troubleshoot the end result (life or damnation) of our actions until it is too late. So we have to trust the doctrine and not waste our time in trial and error trying to understand how the principle of God's laws work.

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19 hours ago, brotherofJared said:

This makes me wonder why anyone still goes to this church. Everyone sins.

Because the Holy Ghost has testified of its truthfulness, and they keep faithful to it. It is why I go. So I don't wonder why people attend, the answer is really simple.

19 hours ago, brotherofJared said:

I have to disagree. Sin is not the cause of people leaving the church. I think they leave the church because they had a question and didn't get an answer that satisfied them. People remain active in church as long as their questions do not become the focus of their satisfaction. There are a lot of questions that cannot be answered right now. Most people who face these questions and stay are willing to accept that we don't have all the answers and will wait for a brighter day. Some people just ignore their questions and some people make their questions a hill they are willing to die over. It seems that once a person is confronted with the dilemma of a void instead of an answer, the wound festers and gets infected so that after a time, all the person can see is all that is wrong or is perceived to be wrong with the church.

We will have to agree to disagree with this. Unanswered questions are simply the mask hiding what is really happening -- mind and heart. Reminds me of a young couple whose husband didn't attend. I asked why he didn't attend and he said I just have a lot of questions. When I asked what some of those questions were his response was, "I don't remember." In other words, I use my questions as an excuse to not attend and thus feel justified (rationalization) for their decision to leave.

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:49 PM, brotherofJared said:

This makes me wonder why anyone still goes to this church. Everyone sins.

I have to disagree. Sin is not the cause of people leaving the church. I think they leave the church because they had a question and didn't get an answer that satisfied them... 

12 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Because the Holy Ghost has testified of its truthfulness, and they keep faithful to it. It is why I go. So I don't wonder why people attend, the answer is really simple.

We will have to agree to disagree with this. Unanswered questions are simply the mask hiding what is really happening -- mind and heart...

I think you're both talking on the opposite sides of the same coin.

Try to figure out how your positions both complement each other, and you'll see a better picture.

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