anatess2 Posted December 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 12:55 PM, Vort said: I am in a state of near disbelief in realizing that I agree with this. I certainly never agreed with it before, not at any time in the past until maybe the Gorsuch nomination. I went through that stage of grief too. I was a vocal supporter of Romney in 2012 after Gingrich lost Super Tuesday. I was more in line with Gingrich's platform than Romney's but I actually liked Romney's plan to solve the Obamacare issue which, at that time, was high up on my priority list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 12/6/2019 at 10:07 AM, anatess2 said: @Just_A_Guy, I found this very interesting... not that Legal Eagle can be wrong (and Frei can be too but I haven't caught an error on his analysis on first viewing) about many things regarding the impeachment inquiry but how a personal bias is so difficult to overcome even while trying. <Legal Eagle Rebuttal Clip> Here's some news that answers a question I had. The one major thing that Legal Eagle said that was (I believed) a pretty good point. When investigating corruption in a foreign country or even against a US citizen (the Bidens) there is a procedure that is followed. And that procedure does NOT include using a personal attorney (not the AG) to do the investigation. Vlawg Dawg did not address that in the rebuttal video. If he did, I missed it. But why did Trump go against proper procedures and protocol? One could argue that the entire system was so corrupt that he could not trust the people down the line to perform their jobs according to unbiased Constitutional oaths. So, he used someone he could trust that wasn't already very busy doing other things. That's a decent argument. But not a strong one. There were certainly other paths that were more traditional that could have avoided the same pitfalls. Today I just read that Giuliani brought a bunch of evidence from Ukraine exonerating Trump. And wouldn't you know it? it happens to be right at the time of the impeachment vote. For my theory to be true, one has to make some leaps in logic. We must assume that at the time of the phone call (prior to being a public mess) Trump saw that impeachment was inevitable. He didn't know what would spark it. But it was pretty obvious that the Democrats were indeed on a witch hunt. And there would be no way to stop them from bulldozing through a kangaroo court at some point. We must also believe that at the time of the phone call, Trump knew that there were many of the Dems in Congress who were part of "Crowdstrike" (the Dem operation to get Ukraine to meddle in the election). It was a hotspot of information that would look very bad for the Dems. Neither of these assumptions are far fetched. It was pretty common knowledge to those in DC. And now it is becoming pretty common knowledge among the US public. What is the "documentary evidence" that Giuliani has? I would tend to think that it was either A) Evidence exhonerating Trump of any wrongdoing. B) Evidence of what Trump was really after in Ukraine. C) Evidence of severe wrongdoing by the Dems with names and paper trails. Anyone want to venture if such names include Schiff, Nadler, Schumer, and others? (I left Pelosi off the list on purpose) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted December 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mores said: Here's some news that answers a question I had. The one major thing that Legal Eagle said that was (I believed) a pretty good point. When investigating corruption in a foreign country or even against a US citizen (the Bidens) there is a procedure that is followed. And that procedure does NOT include using a personal attorney (not the AG) to do the investigation. Vlawg Dawg did not address that in the rebuttal video. If he did, I missed it. But why did Trump go against proper procedures and protocol? One could argue that the entire system was so corrupt that he could not trust the people down the line to perform their jobs according to unbiased Constitutional oaths. So, he used someone he could trust that wasn't already very busy doing other things. That's a decent argument. But not a strong one. There were certainly other paths that were more traditional that could have avoided the same pitfalls. Today I just read that Giuliani brought a bunch of evidence from Ukraine exonerating Trump. And wouldn't you know it? it happens to be right at the time of the impeachment vote. For my theory to be true, one has to make some leaps in logic. We must assume that at the time of the phone call (prior to being a public mess) Trump saw that impeachment was inevitable. He didn't know what would spark it. But it was pretty obvious that the Democrats were indeed on a witch hunt. And there would be no way to stop them from bulldozing through a kangaroo court at some point. We must also believe that at the time of the phone call, Trump knew that there were many of the Dems in Congress who were part of "Crowdstrike" (the Dem operation to get Ukraine to meddle in the election). It was a hotspot of information that would look very bad for the Dems. Neither of these assumptions are far fetched. It was pretty common knowledge to those in DC. And now it is becoming pretty common knowledge among the US public. What is the "documentary evidence" that Giuliani has? I would tend to think that it was either A) Evidence exhonerating Trump of any wrongdoing. B) Evidence of what Trump was really after in Ukraine. C) Evidence of severe wrongdoing by the Dems with names and paper trails. Anyone want to venture if such names include Schiff, Nadler, Schumer, and others? (I left Pelosi off the list on purpose) Rudy is representing Trump as his personal attorney (defends Trump himself and not the Presidency) to defend him against the Russian Collusion accusations and every other charge made against him that originates before or continues after his Presidency including those not related to the office of the POTUS (like Congress' intrusion into Trump's financial affairs beyond his financial disclosures as a political candidate for office). The DOJ does not defend Trump himself but only the office of the President and systems of government. Crossfire Hurricane is one of those that goes beyond the office of the POTUS and election integrity and covers Trump himself as a private citizen getting spied on by the government. Rudy gathered all the exculpatory evidence he could get his hands on waiting for Mueller to refer Trump for indictment. These evidence involves at least 4 countries (that we know of) - Ukraine, Italy, UK, Australia - and several news agencies as they are involved, not only in the production of the Steele Dossier, but also in the FBI's set-up of Papadapolous to be used as evidence for the FISA warrant that started the surveillance of Carter Page (who the recent IG Report just proved is not only far from being an agent of Russia, he is actually known by the FBI as a CIA asset!). The Mueller investigation went nowhere and got replaced by the impeachment inquiry which could go into trial which is completely a Congressional process and not under the DOJ. Rudy will be representing Trump in the impeachment trials but more than that, Rudy is going to be called on as a witness to provide context to Trump's Ukraine phone call and may have the opportunity to present some of the evidence he has gathered. The DOJ is currently investigating the origins of the Russian Collusion investigation so Trump directed the AG to tap Rudy's treasure trove of evidence and work with him on it. Beyond these, Trump, as a private citizen, can initiate a lawsuit against the government for illegal search, etc., or the media for libel, etc. Rudy would be representing Trump if this happens. Edited December 17, 2019 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonah Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 12/5/2019 at 2:55 PM, Traveler said: but I fear our country is too close to civil war and violent conflict. Today's American Senate and House is friendly compared to the past. https://www.thenation.com/article/the-history-of-congressional-mayhem/ NeuroTypical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jonah said: Today's American Senate and House is friendly compared to the past. https://www.thenation.com/article/the-history-of-congressional-mayhem/ Capitol security is also tighter, or so I’m told. Edited December 18, 2019 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Trump's letter to Pelosi is gold. It doesn't read like his attorneys wrote it. It reads like Trump wrote it before he fired off his morning tweets then just had his lawyers proof-read before sending it. It is classic Trump. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/letter-president-donald-j-trump-speaker-house-representatives/ Just a very few of the golden excerpts: Your first claim, “Abuse of Power,” is a completely disingenuous, meritless, and baseless invention of your imagination. You are turning a policy disagreement between two branches of government into an impeachable offense—it is no more legitimate than the Executive Branch charging members of Congress with crimes for the lawful exercise of legislative power. The second claim, so-called “Obstruction of Congress,” is preposterous and dangerous. As liberal law professor Jonathan Turley warned when addressing Congressional Democrats: “I can’t emphasize this enough…if you impeach a president, if you make a high crime and misdemeanor out of going to the courts, it is an abuse of power. It’s your abuse of power. You’re doing precisely what you’re criticizing the President for doing.” Everyone, you included, knows what is really happening. Your chosen candidate lost the election in 2016, in an Electoral College landslide (306-227), and you and your party have never recovered from this defeat. You have developed a full-fledged case of what many in the media call Trump Derangement Syndrome and sadly, you will never get over it! Congressman Adam Schiff cheated and lied all the way up to the present day, even going so far as to fraudulently make up, out of thin air, my conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine and read this fantasy language to Congress as though it were said by me. His shameless lies and deceptions, dating all the way back to the Russia Hoax, is one of the main reasons we are here today. There is nothing I would rather do than stop referring to your party as the Do-Nothing Democrats. Unfortunately, I don’t know that you will ever give me a chance to do so. You are the ones interfering in America’s elections. You are the ones subverting America’s Democracy. You are the ones Obstructing Justice. You are the ones bringing pain and suffering to our Republic for your own selfish personal, political, and partisan gain. If you truly cared about freedom and liberty for our Nation, then you would be devoting your vast investigative resources to exposing the full truth concerning the FBI’s horrifying abuses of power before, during, and after the 2016 election—including the use of spies against my campaign, the submission of false evidence to a FISA court, and the concealment of exculpatory evidence in order to frame the innocent. Perhaps most insulting of all is your false display of solemnity. You apparently have so little respect for the American People that you expect them to believe that you are approaching this impeachment somberly, reservedly, and reluctantly. No intelligent person believes what you are saying. Since the moment I won the election, the Democrat Party has been possessed by Impeachment Fever. There is no reticence. This is not a somber affair. You are making a mockery of impeachment and you are scarcely concealing your hatred of me, of the Republican Party, and tens of millions of patriotic Americans. The voters are wise, and they are seeing straight through this empty, hollow, and dangerous game you are playing. It is time for you and the highly partisan Democrats in Congress to immediately cease this impeachment fantasy and get back to work for the American People. While I have no expectation that you will do so, I write this letter to you for the purpose of history and to put my thoughts on a permanent and indelible record. One hundred years from now, when people look back at this affair, I want them to understand it, and learn from it, so that it can never happen to another President again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, anatess2 said: It is time for you and the highly partisan Democrats in Congress to immediately cease this impeachment fantasy and get back to work for the American People. While I have no expectation that you will do so, I write this letter to you for the purpose of history and to put my thoughts on a permanent and indelible record. One hundred years from now, when people look back at this affair, I want them to understand it, and learn from it, so that it can never happen to another President again. So, basically, he took the Declaration of Independence and customized it to the impeachment proceedings and used his own "colorful" language in place of Jefferson's poetic, yet blistering commentary on King George. Quote ...a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. ... To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. Edited December 18, 2019 by Mores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.