Traveler

Is it really coming to this?

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First I will apologize for fox news and it heave bias.  But here is a link to an article to the writer of a TV show for his treatments of FICTIONAL characters.  https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/vikings-katheryn-winnick-michael-hirst-alexander-ludwig

My question is - who is teaching this as a resolution of problems or disagreements?  Where is this coming from?  Sadly it seems to come from all sides in political disagreements as well as religious problems.  I know it is politically incorrect to call someone dumb and stupid - but that is exactly what seems to be the popular notion - respond with as much violence as you can whenever you are opposed.  And I do not mind saying we have a lot of dumb politicians - including our president.  Let me be very clear - it is very stupid and dumb to think you will lesson the damage (effect) of fire by powering gasoline on it.  How bad does something have to get before we will admit that it is dumb and stupid?

 

The Traveler

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Guest Mores

It all boils down to this: Social Media has created a society of people who must judge EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. Then they need to blather about it to everyone, just as I'm doing right now.  See?  Proof positive. :).

Mass murderers, totalitarian tyrants, and eugenicists all exist because in their minds, they are allowed to judge all mankind -- and pronounce judgment.  And the most powerful judgment is...

DEATH.

So, for any opinion that is shared by such people must result in death or else it just isn't strong and powerful.  That's why people jump to death (or, sometimes a less final, yet still violently damaged condition) as the solution for anything they disagree with.  That's why wars are fought.  Perhaps not all mankind, but at least "them" vs "us".

We all judge.  We all have desires.  But we usually have mental, emotional, and ethical safeguards to prevent us from allowing those desires to bear fruit into action.  But the more we're allowed to make powerful judgments without repercussions or sanction, the less powerful those safeguards are.  And social media allows us to make such declarations without much in the way of repercussion.

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As my GenZ sons always remind me...

The internet makes you think a lot of people are saying the same things... when it's just 5 guys in their mother's basement eating tendies telling you what everybody else thinks.

And yes, if you're going to let the 5 guys say things without pushback... that's how you end up with Drag Queen Story Hour teaching your little kids in the public library.

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

As my GenZ sons always remind me...

The internet makes you think a lot of people are saying the same things... when it's just 5 guys in their mother's basement eating tendies telling you what everybody else thinks.

And yes, if you're going to let the 5 guys say things without pushback... that's how you end up with Drag Queen Story Hour teaching your little kids in the public library.

One lesson I have learned in life - is to not discount what people say.  Even if it us just 5 guys in their mother's basement - the first amendment is not freedom of accusations.   I understand that threats are not deeds - but I am not willing to say threats have not meaning.  It is my understanding that threats are actions seeking opportunity.   This means that threats are game changers.   Both in my concern over a situation being made worse - especially from an angry not understanding my intention.  And my concern that such cannot be a part of a liberty and freedom in a free and open society.

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

One lesson I have learned in life - is to not discount what people say.  Even if it us just 5 guys in their mother's basement

And one thing I've noticed in life? Don't dismiss other people commenting on the internet or try to ridicule/insult them as "basement dwelling losers"....while you do the exact same thing.


That might have been the case in 1999 but in 2019, (almost 2020) people from all backgrounds comment on the internet. Not just "basement dwellers". 
 

Edited by MormonGator

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19 hours ago, Traveler said:

One lesson I have learned in life - is to not discount what people say.  Even if it us just 5 guys in their mother's basement -   

You made my point EXACTLY. 

This is the reason Trump pushes back.  But then, when he does, you whine that he's too mean or he's ending civil discourse or whatever.  You have zero realization that civil discourse ended long time ago and political correctness took its place - uncivil discourse hiding behind pretty words.  The only difference between me calling somebody "Pocahontas" versus "He's going to put you back in chains" is... one is true, the other one is false.

 

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You made my point EXACTLY. 

This is the reason Trump pushes back.  But then, when he does, you whine that he's too mean or he's ending civil discourse or whatever.  You have zero realization that civil discourse ended long time ago and political correctness took its place - uncivil discourse hiding behind pretty words.  The only difference between me calling somebody "Pocahontas" versus "He's going to put you back in chains" is... one is true, the other one is false.

 

This is exactly my problem with Trump.  Calling a certain person "Pocahontas" may seem to be belittling to a certain politician - but it is much more belittling to the entire base of indigenous Native Americans - and Trump could care less.  He does not care about innocent people that are hurt or neglected because of his narcissistic mannerisms.  It may seem cool that he causes problems for swamp creatures - I do no like him because he does not care about any collateral damage done to the undeserving while he is getting his revenge on those he wants.

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

This is exactly my problem with Trump.  Calling a certain person "Pocahontas" may seem to be belittling to a certain politician - but it is much more belittling to the entire base of indigenous Native Americans - and Trump could care less.  He does not care about innocent people that are hurt or neglected because of his narcissistic mannerisms.  It may seem cool that he causes problems for swamp creatures - I do no like him because he does not care about any collateral damage done to the undeserving while he is getting his revenge on those he wants.

 

The Traveler

And that is because you are a prisoner to Political Correctness.  You are a player in victimhood Olympics your art of speech is subject to someone else's victimhood claim to offense.  You are like the Democrats who think - "you did not vote to give food, shelter, and healthcare to poor people, you must not care about poor people" regardless of the work you have done to promote and uplift poor people.  You are more concerned of "how it looks" rather than "how it is".  You are the perfect example of somebody who cannot see the ugly truth because you're offended by its ugliness so you'd rather have the pretty lies. 

And you keep on saying things like "does not care about any collateral damage done" or "getting revenge on those he wants" - completely baseless accusations.

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I appreciate when POTUS and a few others push back against political correctness and learned offense-taking. On the other hand, "owning the liberals," or its counterpart, veers into childishness. Political Incorrectness is necessary, but can be used like salt. A little dash here, a little dash there, to remind us of free speech, highlight hypocrisies, etc. However, what we have today is such a hardening of the boundaries that the most reasoned and aware voices are silenced for fear of being labeled as :::gasp::: too moderate.

Edited by prisonchaplain

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

 most reasoned and aware voices are silenced for fear of being labeled as :::gasp::: too moderate.

Perfectly said. 

One of my closest friends basically has the same views as you and @Vort (not an insult, statement of fact). Him and I were talking about this a few days ago. Trumpers view him as a "moderate" just because he has manners. He's pro life, anti-gay marriage, pro gun, and like I said, very conservative. Only a lunatic would call him a moderate. Well, a lunatic and a Trumper. 

Edited by MormonGator

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20 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

He's pro life, anti-gay marriage, pro gun, and like I said, very conservative. Only a lunatic would call him a moderate. Well, a lunatic and a Trumper.

Of course those are moderate stances. Only the perversion of the term "moderate" prevents them from being widely recognized as such.

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40 minutes ago, Vort said:

Of course those are moderate stances. Only the perversion of the term "moderate" prevents them from being widely recognized as such.

Someone as right wing as you thinks that the John Birch society is as liberal as the ACLU. 

😝

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On 12/10/2019 at 12:50 PM, anatess2 said:

And that is because you are a prisoner to Political Correctness.  You are a player in victimhood Olympics your art of speech is subject to someone else's victimhood claim to offense.  You are like the Democrats who think - "you did not vote to give food, shelter, and healthcare to poor people, you must not care about poor people" regardless of the work you have done to promote and uplift poor people.  You are more concerned of "how it looks" rather than "how it is".  You are the perfect example of somebody who cannot see the ugly truth because you're offended by its ugliness so you'd rather have the pretty lies. 

And you keep on saying things like "does not care about any collateral damage done" or "getting revenge on those he wants" - completely baseless accusations.

I assume that you are in full support of the use of Pocahontas?   When I was in the army I objected to the use of many pharisees that were popular among the service men.  You may call it political correctness - I call it incorrect references and bad use of language.  It is not true or honest - Another term for such use of language would be a lie.  Do you not ever tell you own children not to use certain words and phrases - also known as swearing?  Do you teach you children to lie or support lies if it is politically expedient? 

One of the greatest concerns I have with the political divisions I am seeing is the willingness to alter one's standards in defending their own or in criticizing their opposition.  

 

The Traveler

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Guest Mores

Not necessarily the same topic as the OP, but certainly follows the title. Has it come to this?

So, Trump trolled Nancy Pelosi by commenting on her teeth.  To any reasonably humored individual, it was pretty clear that it was just a joke to diminish a political rival.  But, WaPo decided that it was a serious enough comment that they had to fact check it.

Quote

Meadows’s tweet caught Trump’s attention Sunday, when he offered his additional thoughts: “Because Nancy’s teeth were falling out of her mouth, and she didn’t have time to think!”

The video shows that just before answering the reporter’s question, Pelosi moved her mouth slightly and took a sip of water, but her teeth did not appear out of place and her speech was not interrupted.

Spokespeople for Pelosi did not immediately offer a comment about the president’s tweet Sunday night.

Do they just not have a sense of humor?  Or do they not recognize a joke when they hear one?  This is not some really subtle, easily missed joke.  It was a pretty blatant trolling.

Did they honestly think that Trump believed that her teeth were actually falling out?

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On 12/16/2019 at 8:50 AM, Traveler said:

I assume that you are in full support of the use of Pocahontas?   When I was in the army I objected to the use of many pharisees that were popular among the service men.  You may call it political correctness - I call it incorrect references and bad use of language.  It is not true or honest - Another term for such use of language would be a lie.  Do you not ever tell you own children not to use certain words and phrases - also known as swearing?  Do you teach you children to lie or support lies if it is politically expedient? 

One of the greatest concerns I have with the political divisions I am seeing is the willingness to alter one's standards in defending their own or in criticizing their opposition.  

 

The Traveler

It was not DJT that used affirmative action for personal benefit. 

She deserves her epithet. 

The real problem the so called progressives have with DJT is his intense push back of all their memes and PC. The opposition has not done that before, and they don’t like it. 

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4 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

She deserves her epithet. 

No!!! She does not!!!!  Pocahontas earned a place of honor in our history and does not deserve to have her good name and reputation so desecrated. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

No!!! She does not!!!!  Pocahontas earned a place of honor in our history and does not deserve to have her good name and reputation so desecrated.

But of course, it is not the actual Pocahontas who is being shamed or mocked. It is Elizabeth Warren, who basically styled herself an American Indian princess to reap the benefits therefrom, when in fact she appears to have no more American Indian heritage than your average white American.

I suppose it's possible that the young and the ignorant might hear Trump call Warren "Pocahontas" and infer that Pocahontas is itself a derisive term. If this is the case, then I agree that it is a sort of desecration of Pocahontas' name. But any reasonably educated person understands exactly what Trump's insult means and why it's an insult. I deeply wish that Trump didn't talk the way he does and fling insults so openly, but that's another matter. His branding of Warren as "Pocahontas" is perfectly reasonable and in fact justified, and no informed person takes it as an intended slight toward Pocahontas.

Point of interest: Pocahontas' real name appears to have been something like Matoax, but her fellow tribesmen concealed this from the white settlers because of the belief that knowing her true name might allow them to do her harm.

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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

But of course, it is not the actual Pocahontas who is being shamed or mocked. It is Elizabeth Warren, who basically styled herself an American Indian princess to reap the benefits therefrom, when in fact she appears to have no more American Indian heritage than your average white American.

I suppose it's possible that the young and the ignorant might hear Trump call Warren "Pocahontas" and infer that Pocahontas is itself a derisive term. If this is the case, then I agree that it is a sort of desecration of Pocahontas' name. But any reasonably educated person understands exactly what Trump's insult means and why it's an insult. I deeply wish that Trump didn't talk the way he does and fling insults so openly, but that's another matter. His branding of Warren as "Pocahontas" is perfectly reasonable and in fact justified, and no informed person takes it as an intended slight toward Pocahontas.

Point of interest: Pocahontas' real name appears to have been something like Matoax, but her fellow tribesmen concealed this from the white settlers because of the belief that knowing her true name might allow them to do her harm.

To the point of interest - It is exactly my point.  All that needs to be said is that Elizabeth Warren lied about her heritage and what it means to be native American.  Those that have close native American friends know how sacred names are to them.  I contend that a reasonably educated person would realize that Trump is a narcissist and cares no more about native Americans or their culture than Elizabeth Warren.

 

The Traveler

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On 12/16/2019 at 11:50 AM, Traveler said:

I assume that you are in full support of the use of Pocahontas? 

No.  I prefer Fauxahontas.  It is more descriptive of Warren's insult to American Indians, taking one of their privileged minority spots to benefit her 1023/1024 whiteness.

 

On 12/16/2019 at 11:50 AM, Traveler said:

 

 When I was in the army I objected to the use of many pharisees that were popular among the service men.  You may call it political correctness - I call it incorrect references and bad use of language.  It is not true or honest - Another term for such use of language would be a lie.  Do you not ever tell you own children not to use certain words and phrases - also known as swearing?  Do you teach you children to lie or support lies if it is politically expedient? 

I tell my kids not to use bad words.  For example, I tell them to say, "How dare you insinuate that I can tolerate such a diabolical insolence from a scrap of humanity such as you" rather than to say "Shut up, cretin!".  Of course, the objective is not to avoid insulting anybody but to add more injury to the insult.  Of course, telling somebody to shut up or describing his words as cretinous is not swearing and neither is it a lie if the person is saying something stupid.  The first phrase is just establishing the opposite of cretinous with the elitist wording which adds more injury to the insult.

The art of insolence is very useful.  The art of trolling is the modern version of it.  And my kids are masters of the art.  They have managed to beat me at the art with just one troll phrase, "Ok, boomer."  That phrase is so overused today but my kids can still wield it at just the right moment.  What can I say, they learned from the best.

 

On 12/16/2019 at 11:50 AM, Traveler said:

One of the greatest concerns I have with the political divisions I am seeing is the willingness to alter one's standards in defending their own or in criticizing their opposition.  

 

The Traveler

The greatest thing that has ever happened in the last 5 years is - the unmasking of the polite to expose their true colors.  No more hiding behind fake smiles, handshakes, and kissing babies while thinking of these same people as the deplorables or working behind their backs to destroy them.  Virtue signalling is in the trash heap where it belongs.  

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23 minutes ago, Traveler said:

To the point of interest - It is exactly my point.  All that needs to be said is that Elizabeth Warren lied about her heritage and what it means to be native American.  Those that have close native American friends know how sacred names are to them.  I contend that a reasonably educated person would realize that Trump is a narcissist and cares no more about native Americans or their culture than Elizabeth Warren.

 

The Traveler

Branding.  Calling Warren Pocahontas to brand her for her fraud is the exact same thing as calling Washington football team Redskins to brand their use of trick plays made popular in Indian football.  Only mindless progressives engaged in outrage victimhood culture thinks of it as victimhood. 

Interestingly, most people who thinks Trump's use of Pocahontas proves he does not care about native Americans are... not native Americans.  Native Americans are more concerned about the real issue - that Warren falsely claimed citizenship in one of their tribes and used it for privilege.  It's the exact same situation where the guy who promoted that "Oriental" is insulting to Asians is a white dude teaching Asians who didn't think it was insulting to get offended.

Edited by anatess2

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On 12/16/2019 at 3:49 PM, Mores said:

Do they just not have a sense of humor?  Or do they not recognize a joke when they hear one?  This is not some really subtle, easily missed joke.  It was a pretty blatant trolling.

Did they honestly think that Trump believed that her teeth were actually falling out?

Isn't it wild that out of the billions of years of the planet's existence we happen to live in this specific timeline where the President of the USA is a treasure trove of comedy gold while the Late Night Shows and SNL are struggling to be funny?

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48 minutes ago, Vort said:

I deeply wish that Trump didn't talk the way he does and fling insults so openly, but that's another matter.

It's either a sign of mental instability, poor upbringing, or just downright nastiness. I pity him.

Edited by MormonGator

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9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It's either a sign of mental instability, poor upbringing, or just downright nastiness. I pity him.

Hah hah.  It's a sign he grew up in the Bronx to pre-WWII German parents and spent more time with the construction crew than high society.

Edited by anatess2

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