Emmanuel Goldstein Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) On 12/12/2019 at 4:43 PM, Jonah said: I believe the Bible records it accurately when it indicates who saw the star, but one is free to speculate and add other names to the scripture. "And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld" What does that mean? Cheers. I assume it was a bright supernova that lit up the sky while it was night in the western hemisphere. As day approached here and night began in the East the light finally began to lessen and by the time night had fallen in Jerusalem it was just a really bright star. Always remember night here, day there. Edited December 20, 2019 by Emmanuel Goldstein SilentOne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 This makes a compelling argument that the magi were looking at a sign in the heaven that focused on the planet Jupiter as it moved thru the background of the constellations with conjunctions with Regulus, Leo the Lion, and Venus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 On 12/20/2019 at 3:03 PM, Emmanuel Goldstein said: I assume it was a bright supernova that lit up the sky while it was night in the western hemisphere. As day approached here and night began in the East the light finally began to lessen and by the time night had fallen in Jerusalem it was just a really bright star. Always remember night here, day there. The brightest supernova in astronomic history would have been only visible to the naked eye if you happened to be looking directly at it -- or pretty much so. It would not "light up the sky". Most supernovas take years to fade away. So, if it were even brighter than others recorded in secular history, it would have taken much longer than three days to fade away. Forgive me, to everyone, why are we trying to find some more mundane explanation for the Star? Can we not understand that miracles happened? An immaculate conception Angels visiting mankind on multiple levels. Non-Jews of the period being warned in visions by night. The most important: The condescension of God. Why are lights in the sky not to be taken as equally miraculous (i.e. - inexplicable)? Couldn't it "simply" be some miraculous source of Light? I say "simply" because it seems that in an effort to find a more mundane/secular explanation, we tend to complicate things more than we would if we just accepted that it was a miracle. And such mundane explantations don't really hold up to scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Goldstein Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mores said: "An immaculate conception" Did you know that this phrase is not referring to the conception of Christ? It refers to the catholic belief that Mary's conception made her free from original sin, thus making her a clean vessel into which Jesus could be conceived. Because if this did not happen then Jesus would be under original sin too. It is a twisting of doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said: Did you know that this phrase is not referring to the conception of Christ? It refers to the catholic belief that Mary's conception made her free from original sin, thus making her a clean vessel into which Jesus could be conceived. Because if this did not happen then Jesus would be under original sin too. It is a twisting of doctrine. No, I did not. I hope, then that you would be gracious enough to accept my post with what you clearly understood to be my intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Goldstein Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mores said: No, I did not. I hope, then that you would be gracious enough to accept my post with what you clearly understood to be my intention. i meant it as an interesting aside, not as a criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Mores said: Couldn't it "simply" be some miraculous source of Light? A really, really high-powered LED (probably made by Cree). Maybe with some sort of broad diffuser1. Yeah. 1Firefox need to update their spelling dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, zil said: A really, really high-powered LED (probably made by Cree). Maybe with some sort of broad diffuser1. Yeah. 1Firefox need to update their spelling dictionary. Ooooo - and it was powered by a star going supernova. Yeah! (Don't anybody destroy my fun with facts about how that wouldn't work. I don't want to hear it. I've got a good miracle going on here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, zil said: Ooooo - and it was powered by a star going supernova. Yeah! (Don't anybody destroy my fun with facts about how that wouldn't work. I don't want to hear it. I've got a good miracle going on here.) An LED powered by a supernova. What could possibly go wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Mores said: An LED powered by a supernova. What could possibly go wrong with that? Nothing! Absolutely nothing! It's perfect. Perfect, I tell you. Downright miraculous! Not sure, but a capacitor might have been involved. (Ask @mordorbund if you want to be sure.) mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 23 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said: i meant it as an interesting aside, not as a criticism. Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 22 hours ago, zil said: Nothing! Absolutely nothing! It's perfect. Perfect, I tell you. Downright miraculous! @mordorbund Is this a reference to Trump's phone call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 On 12/23/2019 at 7:46 AM, Mores said: The brightest supernova in astronomic history would have been only visible to the naked eye if you happened to be looking directly at it -- or pretty much so. It would not "light up the sky". Most supernovas take years to fade away. So, if it were even brighter than others recorded in secular history, it would have taken much longer than three days to fade away. Forgive me, to everyone, why are we trying to find some more mundane explanation for the Star? Can we not understand that miracles happened? An immaculate conception Angels visiting mankind on multiple levels. Non-Jews of the period being warned in visions by night. The most important: The condescension of God. Why are lights in the sky not to be taken as equally miraculous (i.e. - inexplicable)? Couldn't it "simply" be some miraculous source of Light? I say "simply" because it seems that in an effort to find a more mundane/secular explanation, we tend to complicate things more than we would if we just accepted that it was a miracle. And such mundane explantations don't really hold up to scrutiny. Question - In your mind, does something cease to be a miracle - or less a miracle - if it can somehow be explained by empirical science and logic? The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Mores said: Is this a reference to Trump's phone call? Not to my knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherofJared Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/20/2019 at 6:38 AM, Jonah said: Matthew 2:9 seems to depict a star that moved and that movement led the wise men to find the exact spot where Jesus was. Do you think this was the same star the Book of Mormon mentions? Jonah Same source, but not the same celestial event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherofJared Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/24/2019 at 11:15 AM, Traveler said: Question - In your mind, does something cease to be a miracle - or less a miracle - if it can somehow be explained by empirical science and logic? The Traveler I think a miracle explained is still a miracle. Traveler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherofJared Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/23/2019 at 6:46 AM, Mores said: The brightest supernova in astronomic history would have been only visible to the naked eye if you happened to be looking directly at it -- or pretty much so. It would not "light up the sky". Most supernovas take years to fade away. So, if it were even brighter than others recorded in secular history, it would have taken much longer than three days to fade away. So it wasn't a supernova. Replace the word supernova with a bight light in the sky that faded away within 36 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherofJared Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 For me, the answer is simple. The Wisemen didn't arrive in Jerusalem until about 3 years after Christ's birth. It was because of their arrival and announcement that the Christ child was carried away into Egypt and apparently, based on something the Wisemen said, Herod decreed that all children under a certain age be killed, so the event that the Wisemen saw that started them on their journey could not have been the same that led them to the place where the family lived. This new star which was such as has never been seen before apparently is the same one that caused a day and a night and a day to appear as one day was certainly not seen in Jerusalem, China or Palestine. Only the Wisemen and the people who lived near them saw it and it was because of them that we have this story. It seems to me that if they started their journey after seeing the star, then they came from very very far away, like say America or somewhere near it, perhaps the same hemisphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Goldstein Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 hours ago, brotherofJared said: For me, the answer is simple. The Wisemen didn't arrive in Jerusalem until about 3 years after Christ's birth. It was because of their arrival and announcement that the Christ child was carried away into Egypt and apparently, based on something the Wisemen said, Herod decreed that all children under a certain age be killed, so the event that the Wisemen saw that started them on their journey could not have been the same that led them to the place where the family lived. This new star which was such as has never been seen before apparently is the same one that caused a day and a night and a day to appear as one day was certainly not seen in Jerusalem, China or Palestine. Only the Wisemen and the people who lived near them saw it and it was because of them that we have this story. It seems to me that if they started their journey after seeing the star, then they came from very very far away, like say America or somewhere near it, perhaps the same hemisphere. It was obviously the deceleration burn of a Star Drive on the Lord’s interstellar yacht. Sheesh, so simple. zil and brotherofJared 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 10 hours ago, brotherofJared said: So it wasn't a supernova. Replace the word supernova with a bight light in the sky that faded away within 36 hours So, in other words, a star (as the ancients understood it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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