Foreign interference in our government?


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20 hours ago, Mores said:

What were their criticisms of it?  The only thing I'm aware of as "an actual flaw" was that he thought that those who did not hold up their oat to protect and defend the Constitution should be subject to capital punishment.  He supported an Constitutional amendment to that effect, as well as other items.  But this one issue is the only one which I read him literally call, "a flaw".  Other items are incomplete, of course.  That's why we have the amendment process.  But a "flaw"?  This one thing is the only one I've read specifically labelled as such (by him).

I'd also be interested in hearing what Brigham had to say about it.

I'm in rural Africa now, so I'm having trouble with posting links for some reason, but for some reason I can still cut and paste.

Here is what Joseph believed was a flaw in the Constitution (partially what you already alluded to).

>>Although it (the Constitution) provides that all men shall enjoy religious freedom, yet it does not provide the manner by which that freedom can be preserved, nor for the punishment of government officers who refuse to protect the people in their religious rights, or punish those mobs, states or communities who interfere with the rights of the people on account of their religion.

"Its sentiments are good, but it provides no means of enforcing them," he (Joseph) said.<<

Joseph also believed that a complete separation of Church and State was also a flaw, but believed that there should be no state Church.  Thus his presidential platform of theodemocracy.  I hope that you read the PDF I referenced to.

As far as I know, those were the only flaws that Joseph ever expressed a belief in.

Brigham Young had several criticisms of the Constitution, and the United States Government in general (especially the "black hearted Republicans", but obviously against President Buchanan, a Democrat as well).

Like Joseph, he also thought that the Constitution didn't allow enough self government for the States or protections from persecutions.  He also thought that it should lay out consequences for leaders that didn't uphold their duties. 

Another one that comes to mind (this is just from memory, so no quote right now), was that the Constitution didn't lay out the requirements for statehood or something to that effect.

Those are the ones that come to mind.

Of course Brigham Young wasn't always consistant and usually he would lavish praise and sermons about the Constitution and on some other occasions he would point out what he believed to be flaws or deficiencies.

As mentioned, I'm in Africa and so can post only at a snail's pace, but I'm confident that you'll be able to study more on your own.  I'll be back Jan 10. 

PS, I must emphasize that although Joseph Smith and Brigham Young believed that the Constitution has flaws, they also thought highly of it and believed it to divinely inspired.

 

Edited by Scott
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19 hours ago, Scott said:

I'm in rural Africa now, so I'm having trouble with posting links for some reason, but for some reason I can still cut and paste.

Here is what Joseph believed was a flaw in the Constitution (partially what you already alluded to).

...

Brigham Young had several criticisms of the Constitution, and the United States Government in general (especially the "black hearted Republicans", but obviously against President Buchanan, a Democrat as well).

...

PS, I must emphasize that although Joseph Smith and Brigham Young believed that the Constitution has flaws, they also thought highly of it and believed it to divinely inspired.

Again, I see these as "incomplete" rather than "flaws".  Perhaps it is semantics.  I just see it differently.

Quote

“I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well-administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.”

-- Benjamin Franklin

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9 hours ago, Mores said:

Again, I see these as "incomplete" rather than "flaws".  Perhaps it is semantics.  I just see it differently.

Going back and reading it, Joseph Smith called it a "fault" rather than "flaw", but I'd go for "incomplete" as well.

It sounds to me that we agree and are just using different semantics.

I'd still suggest reading the Times and Seasons reference pointed out if you haven't already.  There is a lot of interesting stuff in there.

My main point though was that Joseph said the best form of government was theodemocracy (his words, not mine),  which I thought some might be interested in.  

Hopefully, this isn't getting too far off topic, but Joseph Smith's presidential platform is actually quite interesting.  In addition to the theodemocracy, as part of his platform, Joseph also suggested selling off the Lousiana Purchase lands and other lands to US citizens and then using the (Federal) money to buy slaves from slave owners and then freeing them.

He also said that our nation's expansion should also only be done with the consent of the Native American Tribes living on the lands in question.

There are actually a lot of interesting proposals in the platform.

I don't think Joseph Smith ever could have won the election, had he survived, but it's still interesting to think of the changes that might of happened had he been elected.

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