Personal Revelation

[Rchrdnlsn]

Okay I am sorry guys more questions about personal revelation. If there is a member who is married to someone in another faith and they receive revelation that they don’t need to pay tithing that wouldn’t be right either right?  Or to go break the sabbath. I just don’t like how these people use in my circle of friends justify breaking the sabbath cause their wife doesn’t want them to. I don’t understand this at all. I have always loved by what the prophets have said but there are so many people saying they receive revelation that is against gospel principles.  

[Vort]

28 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

Okay I am sorry guys more questions about personal revelation. If there is a member who is married to someone in another faith and they receive revelation that they don’t need to pay tithing that wouldn’t be right either right?  Or to go break the sabbath. I just don’t like how these people use in my circle of friends justify breaking the sabbath cause their wife doesn’t want them to. I don’t understand this at all. I have always loved by what the prophets have said but there are so many people saying they receive revelation that is against gospel principles.  

Not sure why this is hard. People claim all sorts of false things. I just had a revelation from God that I need to eat a chocolate sundae. Do you believe me? You don't need to believe my spurious "revelation" just because I said it.

Some people lie to justify themselves. Some people invent things and then believe their own inventions. Some people are mentally unstable. Some people are foolish and allow themselves to believe that mere desire is tantamount to the voice of God. Not to be critical, but seriously, why is this hard?

[Jane_Doe]

59 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

Okay I am sorry guys more questions about personal revelation. If there is a member who is married to someone in another faith and they receive revelation that they don’t need to pay tithing that wouldn’t be right either right?  Or to go break the sabbath. I just don’t like how these people use in my circle of friends justify breaking the sabbath cause their wife doesn’t want them to. I don’t understand this at all. I have always loved by what the prophets have said but there are so many people saying they receive revelation that is against gospel principles.  

You can't control what other people do.  Trying to govern another's behavior is 1) not your job and 2) will drive you crazy.

As to what you yourself do: somethings are cut and dry, in both scripture and modern revelation.  However, God’s and His servants are not micromanagers as to tell you every possible situation in every little thing.  Trying to do so sets things up for an extreme Law of Moses situation.  Yes, we have prophets and should listen.  But we also should have a personal relationship and listen to the Father directly too.   

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

Okay I am sorry guys more questions about personal revelation. If there is a member who is married to someone in another faith and they receive revelation that they don’t need to pay tithing that wouldn’t be right either right?  Or to go break the sabbath. I just don’t like how these people use in my circle of friends justify breaking the sabbath cause their wife doesn’t want them to. I don’t understand this at all. I have always loved by what the prophets have said but there are so many people saying they receive revelation that is against gospel principles.  

Personal revelation is just that personal... it applies to no one else.  If I claim to have a revelation to do something that others might think is wrong... it does not justify anyone else to follow me.  I will answer for how I followed (or did not follow) the Lord's command.  As will everyone else.

You will find more peace and happiness when you stop comparing yourself with others and/or trying to control them.  Focus on doing what the Lord will have you do... and let others do the same.

 

[Rchrdnlsn]

I just needed to know that the Lord wouldn’t command my friend to be in that SSA relationship is all. That opened a little bit of doubt in my mind with so many people I know claiming different things. I just don’t think He would do that. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Rchrdnlsn

[estradling75]

12 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I just needed to know that the Lord wouldn’t command my friend to be in that SSA relationship is all. That opened a little bit of doubt in my mind with so many people I know claiming different things. I just don’t think He would do that. 

Then ask HIM.  That is what personal revelation is all about.

[Rchrdnlsn]

But if personal revelation conflicts with scripture it is just an opinion. It is not from God.  

[estradling75]

1 minute ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

But if personal revelation conflicts with scripture it is just an opinion. It is not from God.  

Are you asking?  Or are you telling?  Because if you are telling then you have your answer

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

28 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I just needed to know that the Lord wouldn’t command my friend to be in that SSA relationship is all. That opened a little bit of doubt in my mind with so many people I know claiming different things. I just don’t think He would do that. 

That's between your friend and Heavenly Father. It's not your place to judge.  Focus your attention on personal revelation for your own life. 

 

[Rchrdnlsn]

Is that what you think too? 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

Is that what you think too? 

Who are you asking? If you're asking me, I think you are worrying too much about things that are out of your control.  Whether they are right or wrong is between them and God.  

You need to worry about your own relationship with God. 

[Rchrdnlsn]

I want a way to judge my own revelations from God since I don’t trust my feelings or thoughts right now. There is a devil here that tempts and tries so I just want to make sure I have something to stack my own revelations on. 

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I want a way to judge my own revelations from God since I don’t trust my feelings or thoughts right now. There is a devil here that tempts and tries so I just want to make sure I have something to stack my own revelations on. 

I think this is wise. I agree with you that you should measure all things by the standards we have been given.

The idea that God told your friend to enter into a same-sex relationship doesn't pass the sniff test. While LiterateParakeet is right in that your friend's supposed "revelation" isn't your concern, you can still safely assume that no such "revelation" took place, or if it did, it was not a revelation from God.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Vort

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I want a way to judge my own revelations from God since I don’t trust my feelings or thoughts right now. There is a devil here that tempts and tries so I just want to make sure I have something to stack my own revelations on. 

Here is what you stack them on... Prayer... Study... Experience..    You have a question... you pray about it... you study it(this is were you compare it to the scriptures)... you make a choice about it... you take your choice to the Lord for confirmation...  you get a confirmation and clarity of thought or you get a stupor and confused thoughts.  That is your answer and you act on it.  The more you experience the process the clearer and more confident you become in it

[Rchrdnlsn]

I just need to learn to trust those first feelings. I get clarity or peace but then an hour later I start to second guess. But while in prayer I get the confirmation that the scriptures are true and what they teach are true. Thanks guys for your help. I have needed it. 

[Guest Mores]

2 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I just need to learn to trust those first feelings.

EXACTLY!  You seem to think that personal revelation is an on or off thing.  It's either absolutely certain or it is completely undependable.  No.  There is a spectrum.  And it will take you a LONG TIME to learn how to read those communications with the accuracy that Abraham or Nephi did.

2 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I get clarity or peace but then an hour later I start to second guess. But while in prayer I get the confirmation that the scriptures are true and what they teach are true. Thanks guys for your help. I have needed it. 

Go with the confirmation or peace.  And carefully document what happens afterwards.  See how things work out.  Pray about what you observe.  Recognize that some results take time to measure.  You have to start small and go bigger over time.

If you've been out of the scene for many years, it is not realistic to believe that you're going to have the spiritual sensitivity to recognize direct revelation telling you that it's ok for you to have a same sex relationship.  That is ridiculous.  Not only because it is just plain wrong, but because something that goes so contrary to very important principles of the gospel is not going to be revealed to you when you're basically a baby who needs a lot of nurturing in the gospel before you can really know things like that.

Crawl before you walk.  Walk before you run.  That is the way of learning anything.  And sensitivity to the Spirit is no different.

[estradling75]

9 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I get clarity or peace but then an hour later I start to second guess.

I have done that many a times...  the results were poor... that is how I learned to stop doing that.  (aka experience)

[Rchrdnlsn]

6 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I have done that many a times...  the results were poor... that is how I learned to stop doing that.  (aka experience)

Stopped second guessing?

[estradling75]

2 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

Stopped second guessing?

Yes.. sorry for the ambiguity

[Traveler]

On 12/17/2019 at 12:03 PM, Rchrdnlsn said:

I am new to this forum but I wanted to ask a question.  Its about personal revelation.  

So If I understand personal revelation it won't conflict with current words of prophets or any scripture for that matter? I hear many people say they received personal revelation that clearly goes against what our Prophet is saying.  How can I know for sure what is revelation and what is my own feelings?  I used to put everything up against what the prophets have said and do say.  I assume that is still the best practice since God would first reveal to his servants the prophets right? 

Anyways I am rambling but just want to know what faithful advice you guys all have.  

 

Thanks

I will try to make this as straight forward and simple as possible with a reference to Isaiah.  Isaiah is talking to King Ahaz and the king just is not getting it - so Isaiah says something along the line - "The reason you are having a problem with this is because you are not loyal."  Granted, I have taken the liberty to change the wording slightly to make the point more clear.  To understand lets take a second and look into the problem king Ahaz was having.  The king was doing some good things but his heart was not in it.  He was king and was all about his own agenda.  He wanted what he wanted and that was where his heart was.  Isaiah was calling him out because of his doubt in following G-d over his confusion with his personal agenda.

I will use a modern example of a young man (returned missionary) was having hearing the spirit.  His temple marriage was falling apart and ending and he did not understand why.  He had daily prayer, daily scripture study, fasted often and attended the temple at least once a week.  At the time he indicated to me that the spirit told him how to save his marriage.  I attempted to add a little sense but he was so sure he should listen to the spirit over me (and I would add just about everybody else).  He would argue that he was doing everything that G-d asked him to do.

Fast forward to today and this young man's marriage was not saved but worse this guy no longer attend church, has moved in with girlfriend (broken the law of Chasity), and now claims the spirit speaks more clearly to him now than at anytime of his life.  The spirit converted him to the church, sent him on a mission and told him the lady to marry and now it is telling him to turn away for all these things.  I could drill down deeper - but that is not the point.  How, not to be loyal is not the question - being loyal is the solution.  The best example in scripture is the epoch of Job.  With Job it would seem that his loyalty was the engine of his loses and struggle - perhaps I should say Trial.  Because he was loyal to G-d (rather than his own personal agenda) through his trial - he was blessed many fold.

Being loyal in not keeping the commandments through happy sunny days - being loyal means being loyal through great trial.  Being loyal does not being loyal and long and one's personal agenda is being satisfied - it is being loyal when your personal agenda is being shattered.  So how do you know when the spirit is guiding?  You will know when things get difficult and seem to go wrong - and the spirit continues to inspire the same things it always has.  And when someone hears when the spirit speaks - there is no doubt the spirit is speaking.

 

The Traveler

[Rchrdnlsn]

That is a great thing to remember traveler. Thank you. It also answered another question I was having so thank you. 

[Rchrdnlsn]

I also read this article that helped greatly. The Lord has set up a pattern as it says in D&C 52 so we won’t be deceived. People were being deceived around the time that section was written so I believe This pattern was meant for us too.  I also don’t think it is right to use the Nephi and Abraham stories as any reason ever to not follow the prophets in your life. The more sure way of revelation, comes through keeping Gods word that prophets have revealed. God is not going tell anyone to go against His revealed prophet because of that pattern which has been set up in this dispensation. He might give clarification or build on why there is the Nephi and Laban story but anyways thank you all for seeing me through this. I feel so much better. I hope to not have opened any more cans of worms!!  Thanks. 

[estradling75]

6 hours ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I also read this article that helped greatly. The Lord has set up a pattern as it says in D&C 52 so we won’t be deceived. People were being deceived around the time that section was written so I believe This pattern was meant for us too.  I also don’t think it is right to use the Nephi and Abraham stories as any reason ever to not follow the prophets in your life. The more sure way of revelation, comes through keeping Gods word that prophets have revealed. God is not going tell anyone to go against His revealed prophet because of that pattern which has been set up in this dispensation. He might give clarification or build on why there is the Nephi and Laban story but anyways thank you all for seeing me through this. I feel so much better. I hope to not have opened any more cans of worms!!  Thanks. 

I think you are missing the point of the examples of Abraham and Nephi.  They are not excuses to disobey.  But rather examples on how we can limit our understanding of what God is doing and his ways if we are not careful.

For example many will declare that God would never ever ever ask you to kill someone.  They we point to the prophets and the commandments as all the proof they need of God's unchangeableness on this issue.  For most people this is a pretty safe conclusion.  Yet the scriptures and the prophets clearly show this is not the absolute many would declare it to be.  Nephi and Abrham were both commanded to kill. Various Godly nations commanded to go to war etc.

Thus the story of Nephi and Abraham are not permission to disobey the prophets but rather to make sure we fully understand them.  Rather then impose arbitrary restriction based on our limited understanding and presumptions

Edited December 23, 2019 by estradling75

[Rchrdnlsn]

I posted something but wanted to remove it. So blank statement here. Sorry. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Rchrdnlsn

[Rchrdnlsn]

I think that is a very faithful way to look at that. Taking the prophets as our guide and praying for understanding and help in applying their words to make sure we understand.  I understand that now. Thank you. If I got what you were saying!