Evil doesn't Think, it just Does


star.bright
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Well, some longer time ago I caught that, can I say, American or Mormon proverb. So I've been making my own  thoughts and couldn't left this proverb away in the backyards of my "thinking machine". One of my favorite tv-series is Medical Detectives. It involves cases from the eighties as well of the ninetees. For instance the cruelful and abominable murder of two young girls in Virginia (I won't call the name of that damned and cruelful murderer, who even taunted the parents of both victims by phoning them repeatedly, and who was the last one finally gettin' executed and ended his days in Virginia's Old Sparkey. Or that other creature, who'd been murdering maybe uncountable women. I only remember when people were chanting on the forecourt of the correctional center, where that monster in disguise was gonna get electrocuted: "Burn, Bundy, Burn". And he burned in a literally way, and most effectively in the fiery clutches of Old Sparkey. I mean, isn't that so often criticised death penalty, as in America practised, after maybe ten years of appellations and all those defending back doors procedures, the right way to punish cruelful monsters in disguise, who tortured Virginia's young flowers to death in that cruelful way I wouldn't describe here, or mass murderers like that arrogant and dirty devilish character who even was allowed to defend himself at court (he was a lawyer himself) but then failed by medical and forensic evidence that finally brought him to hell. Well, in Utah it was being practised by a firing squad. And one candidate is John Lafferty. It's the 1986 (?) case where in American Fork a young woman and her little child were murdered by those two Lafferty brothers. in a way I also won't describe here. The one who lead the knife and did the deed was only sentenced for a life term. The other one to death. But he's still alive in Utah's state prison wearing a very long beard and pretending he was a bit insane, and in my opinion he should say: let's make an end. But he's a coward, like most murderers, and afraid of getting served to death, and hell. The last person getting executed by a firing squad in Utah was one Mr. Gardener, guilty of shooting a lawyer at court in a first degree and another person, as far as I know. I see it this way: he paid with his blood and was granted to die in a mercyful manner. Getti' shot and hit by three bullets means you're dead at once. Well, you can see, this topic is not one I can free myself from, and there're emotions coming up and I won't lose my religion in sayin' that for a murder in the first degree there should come a pay day for the sentenced. What is LDS view on this topic...? God hates the sin, but HE loves the sinner...? I don't hate sinners in general, but I hate those murderers. I hate'em from the bottom of my soul.

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7 hours ago, star.bright said:

 What is LDS view on this topic...? God hates the sin, but HE loves the sinner...? I don't hate sinners in general, but I hate those murderers. I hate'em from the bottom of my soul.

You think YOU hate those brutal murders?  You just heard about it.  Our Savior directly felt every single blow, every single tear from every single person involved: the victims, their friends, their families, and even the perpetrators.  Pardon my bluntness, but compared to Him, you understand nothing and your hatred of those crimes is nothing compared to His.

You also don’t truly love any of the people involved- to your they’re just names.  But He knows and loves each of them more deeply then you could ever understand.   Yes, even the perpetrators.  He wants so badly for each of us to turn away from horrible deeds—horrible things that cause more pain that we mortals could ever understand.  He wants to wash each of us clean.  Urges it with every fiber of His being. 

But He will not force anyone to walk in His goodness and happiness.  And to those that refuse, His wrath is beyond our ability to fathom. 

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4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

You think YOU hate those brutal murders?  You just heard about it.  Our Savior directly felt every single blow, every single tear from every single person involved: the victims, their friends, their families, and even the perpetrators.  Pardon my bluntness, but compared to Him, you understand nothing and your hatred of those crimes is nothing compared to His.

You also don’t truly love any of the people involved- to your they’re just names.  But He knows and loves each of them more deeply then you could ever understand.   Yes, even the perpetrators.  He wants so badly for each of us to turn away from horrible deeds—horrible things that cause more pain that we mortals could ever understand.  He wants to wash each of us clean.  Urges it with every fiber of His being. 

But He will not force anyone to walk in His goodness and happiness.  And to those that refuse, His wrath is beyond our ability to fathom. 

So you're pleading for forgiveness...? Those women and children who'd been brought to death by shameful and absolutely cruel murderers are not just names for me. See what Larry Jean Bell did and how he brought those poor young girls to death.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Gene_Bell READ it. Read how that animal brought them to death. Read it. Wikipedia will certainly give you the complete information. And THEN think about it, and what the victims felt and what their last thoughts may had been, when they were in the hands of that abominable monster. I don't  pardon your bluntness - I think it's only pure arrogance. Probably your empathy isn't enough to feel pity and compassion for the right side; namely the victims. God even loves the perpetrators...? Don't be so sure, even if it's your doctrine. Why should God Almighty hate the sin, but love the sinner (murderer)...? Tell me, then, why did HE send Lucifer into the outer Darkness...? Maybe 'cause HE loves him and his followers...? No forgiveness, no mercy, no pardon, nothing of HE loves Lucifer but only hates his sinning?  You're talking about God as if you've got the entire truth in your hands and I'm the most ignorant idiot. But take a look at your hands; they're empty. There's nothing you hold in your hands that might convince me. Only arrogance. Pure arrogance. Pardon my bluntness, by the way.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, star.bright said:

So you're pleading for forgiveness...?

Not in any way you're thinking of.

I am also very passionate about how we humans so commonly misuse the word and idea of "forgiveness".  

 

 

Your post acts like I'm not taking things seriously / in depth.  I am.  And God takes things FAR more serious / in depth than your or I ever could.  Our ability to be empathetic is so shallow compared to God's.  

 

I'll address the "love the sinner" part after we finish making sure the depth / extent of the wretchedness of sin is.  

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10 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Not in any way you're thinking of.

I am also very passionate about how we humans so commonly misuse the word and idea of "forgiveness".  

Your post acts like I'm not taking things seriously / in depth.  I am.  And God takes things FAR more serious / in depth than your or I ever could.  Our ability to be empathetic is so shallow compared to God's.  

I'll address the "love the sinner" part after we finish making sure the depth / extent of the wretchedness of sin is.  

 

"But He will not force anyone to walk in His goodness and happiness.  And to those that refuse, His wrath is beyond our ability to fathom."

Yea, and HE hates those ones more than cruelful psychopathic murderers, of course.  This is your belief...? And our ability to be empathetic is so shallow compared to God's... ? Ask the parents of those children, that have been murdered; some have died of grief.

 

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On 12/19/2019 at 8:36 PM, Jane_Doe said:

I have.

And what you/I feel is nothing compared to what they feel.  And what they feel in nothing compared to what God feels.  

Let's go medias in res: the Theodizee-Question: The question, why God Almighty seemingly allows the evil to murder in cruelful ways and by letting the victims suffer in a way I'm miles away of being able to describe, has never been solved by Christian concepts. I've made my own thoughts about this paradoxum. On the one hand, there is an almighty God. On the other hand, he seemingly allows a psychopathic murderer like, e.g., Gene Bell (I've mentioned that case before) to murder young girls who were just at the beginning of her live as daughters of God and the young flowers of Virginia. So, Mrs. Doe, would you be able to give a statement...? And please don't come with "God has given us the freedom of  will and it's up to us to act evil or god" and all that trash. I'm rid of all that. See the VICTIMS. That's the point. Tell me please why God seemingly accepts the unimaginable suffering of the victims only by holding high the principle of giving a free will to the perpetrators. Give me an answer. But give me a good answer. Nevertheless,  I will give the answer, and my view has to do with the question abour reality and the high-dimensional architecture of our holographic universe. It's always been my wish to get an answer, and God's revelations haven't stopped with Joseph Smith. The biggest revelations can be found in the field of science. SCIENCE. But maybe ninety-five percent of the nutheads that call themselves human don't even know or can describe how an electro-motor works or how electric voltage comes to their house. And how a washing machine works (but, Mrs.Doe, this of course concerns only the male part of the population of our "Planet of the Apes" - by the way, one of the movies I watched when I was some significant years younger - can't say exactly why, but I had a thing about those apes).  👨‍🌾

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34 minutes ago, star.bright said:

Let's go medias in res: the Theodizee-Question

I would rather finish the current subject before moving on to another.  I'll go with it this time, but I really dislike jumping topics ADHD style-- I feel like nothing actually gets discussed that way.   I"m going to zoom the camera out for some background theology, that differs from the belief system you're probably familiar with. 

LDS Christians believe that each of us existed before we were physically born and even the Earth was created.  We had our base personalities, but not physical bodies, and limited experiences / depth of emotion.  Our Father wanted us to grow have that depth of experience/emotion & growth.  Sio He brought forth His plan, wherein we could each be physically born, have experiences (good and bad), grow, and choose our path-- specifically whether to follow His ways, or lesser ones.  God knew that learning does involve screwing up and pain.  He also know some folks, given the choice, would choose not to follow His good ways.  He even knew that for this to work, His special perfect Son would have to suffer truly unimaginable pain.

One of the folks at the meeting spoke up: "I have a better idea: how about I just make everyone behave-- everything will all be great, we'll all make it to Heaven.  I'll make it happen, and that's my glorious plan".  His counter proposal was very popular & he amassed a huge following.  But it was also a fools idea: because such compulsion doesn't result in growth nor happiness.  It just results in that person's eternal misery.  But the protester clung to his own ideas, and ultimately had to be cast out for rebelling.  And hence Lucifer became Satan, and those that followed him his devils.  

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8 hours ago, star.bright said:

Let's go medias in res: the Theodizee-Question: The question, why God Almighty seemingly allows the evil to murder in cruelful ways and by letting the victims suffer in a way I'm miles away of being able to describe, has never been solved by Christian concepts. I've made my own thoughts about this paradoxum. On the one hand, there is an almighty God. On the other hand, he seemingly allows a psychopathic murderer like, e.g., Gene Bell (I've mentioned that case before) to murder young girls who were just at the beginning of her live as daughters of God and the young flowers of Virginia. So, Mrs. Doe, would you be able to give a statement...? And please don't come with "God has given us the freedom of  will and it's up to us to act evil or god" and all that trash. I'm rid of all that. See the VICTIMS. That's the point. Tell me please why God seemingly accepts the unimaginable suffering of the victims only by holding high the principle of giving a free will to the perpetrators. Give me an answer. But give me a good answer. Nevertheless,  I will give the answer, and my view has to do with the question abour reality and the high-dimensional architecture of our holographic universe. It's always been my wish to get an answer, and God's revelations haven't stopped with Joseph Smith. The biggest revelations can be found in the field of science. SCIENCE. But maybe ninety-five percent of the nutheads that call themselves human don't even know or can describe how an electro-motor works or how electric voltage comes to their house. And how a washing machine works (but, Mrs.Doe, this of course concerns only the male part of the population of our "Planet of the Apes" - by the way, one of the movies I watched when I was some significant years younger - can't say exactly why, but I had a thing about those apes).  👨‍🌾

I am an engineer and scientist - I work in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence.  I read this post of yours and wondered what your background might be.  But before we get two far off on a tangent - I challenge your perception of the universe (space - time).  The rarest product of our universe appears to be life.  And the rarest of life is intelligent life.  Outside of our planet life is not known to exist anywhere in our vast universe.  The highly civilized intelligent life we currently see thriving on our planet is almost immeasurable compared to other lifeforms of significantly less intelligence.  

Scientifically we know of at least five major extinctions of lifeforms during the history of this planet.  Millions of species have been lost forever.  You seem to selfishly ignore the cruelty of this universe to countless struggling lifeforms to concern yourself with but so few of your own species.   My question for you - if you measure justice, and goodness by what happens to the creatures of this planet between their births and deaths - Why do you believe that there is anything other than the cruel evil that will eventually end every living thing in a sad death?  Why do you even hope for anything good or merciful.  Since we all die - what difference does it make how we die?  10,000 years after an individual death even the most intelligent creature will be forgotten and remembered no more. 

Let me be very simple - It appears to me that you really do not believe in a resurrection from death.  Granted we have no empirical scientific evidence that a resurrection of life is somehow possible.  Never-the-less; I submit that a resurrection is your and mine only hope that there is justice and that death is not really the end - especially the end of hope, justice and any excuse to seek and think of things that are good.

BTW - if you are so smart and so expert in science - would you explain to me why flowing currents (electrons) generate magnetic fields?

 

The Traveler

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4 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am an engineer and scientist - I work in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence.  I read this post of yours and wondered what your background might be.  But before we get two far off on a tangent - I challenge your perception of the universe (space - time).  The rarest product of our universe appears to be life.  And the rarest of life is intelligent life.  Outside of our planet life is not known to exist anywhere in our vast universe.  The highly civilized intelligent life we currently see thriving on our planet is almost immeasurable compared to other lifeforms of significantly less intelligence.  

Scientifically we know of at least five major extinctions of lifeforms during the history of this planet.  Millions of species have been lost forever.  You seem to selfishly ignore the cruelty of this universe to countless struggling lifeforms to concern yourself with but so few of your own species.   My question for you - if you measure justice, and goodness by what happens to the creatures of this planet between their births and deaths - Why do you believe that there is anything other than the cruel evil that will eventually end every living thing in a sad death?  Why do you even hope for anything good or merciful.  Since we all die - what difference does it make how we die?  10,000 years after an individual death even the most intelligent creature will be forgotten and remembered no more. 

Let me be very simple - It appears to me that you really do not believe in a resurrection from death.  Granted we have no empirical scientific evidence that a resurrection of life is somehow possible.  Never-the-less; I submit that a resurrection is your and mine only hope that there is justice and that death is not really the end - especially the end of hope, justice and any excuse to seek and think of things that are good.

BTW - if you are so smart and so expert in science - would you explain to me why flowing currents (electrons) generate magnetic fields?

 

The Traveler

"The rarest product of our universe appears to be life.  And the rarest of life is intelligent life.  Outside of our planet life is not known to exist anywhere in our vast universe." 

In our vast universe... how could we step into contact with another civilization, and how, since the velocity of light and, thus, electromagnetic waves is limited, and it would maybe take thousands of years before our message arrived the aliens by chance, if it weren't absorbed and disappeared in the big noise of the universe long before?

"You seem to selfishly ignore the cruelty of this universe to countless struggling lifeforms to concern yourself with but so few of your own species. "

I'm quite conscious of the cruelty of this universe and its nature. I wouldn't say I was ignoring this fact.

"Since we all die - what difference does it make how we die?  10,000 years after an individual death even the most intelligent creature will be forgotten and remembered no more."

My oh my, and what about empathy and compassion? There are significant differences of how we can die, as described in this thread before.

"Let me be very simple - It appears to me that you really do not believe in a resurrection from death."

I would call it transformation. Maybe it's the same, only another word.

"... would you explain to me why flowing currents (electrons) generate magnetic fields?"

Electromagnetism is due to something in common with other phenomenons of our universe. It started with Maxell and it maybe will end in a all-encompassing theory.The fundamental surface of our universe is the quantum world. In an additional interaction with a supposed superordinate universum it makes me unsure what we see is absolute; and we see very less, by the way. However, it's only my thoughts, based on my own empiric perceptions, but let me take this risk of being wrong, and nevertheless let me guess one great spirit has granted us the ability of reading even between the lines of the twinkling stars' firmament; and, thus, even would let us understand the secrets beyond that darkness.

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22 hours ago, star.bright said:

And please don't come with "God has given us the freedom of  will and it's up to us to act evil or god" and all that trash. I'm rid of all that. See the VICTIMS. That's the point. Tell me please why God seemingly accepts the unimaginable suffering of the victims only by holding high the principle of giving a free will to the perpetrators. Give me an answer. But give me a good answer.

Have you sufficiently considered the alternative? Would the universe be a better or a worse place if people were somehow prevented by some kind of external power, from doing that which they chose to do and if their ability to act was somehow limited by this external power? 

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15 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Have you sufficiently considered the alternative? Would the universe be a better or a worse place if people were somehow prevented by some kind of external power, from doing that which they chose to do and if their ability to act was somehow limited by this external power? 

Your comparison also has a small lack of consequence, as you've mentioned some kind of external power. If the perpetrators were inspired by -let's say- Satan, this would heavily interference with the freedom of choice and that external influence of such a power you mentioned.  And so we'd be back to the question why God seems to permit those misdeeds (assumed, he hasn't lost control), and, the most important point here, the torture and suffering of the victims. You wouldn't really believe that the decisions and the will of the victims were of getting murdered...?

The freedom of the one part in committing murders stands in opposite of the other part, the victims; why this disadvantaging of them ...? Whatsoever - do men really have a free will...? David Eagleman, an author and well-known American neuro-physiologist is of a decidedly different opinion. And if this was true, what world would we really live in...?

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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

God was the external power I had in mind, so I ask the question again - would the universe be a better or a worse place if people were somehow prevented by God from doing what they chose to do and if their ability to act was somehow limited by God?

Ask the victims of those murderers I've mentioned here, but they can't speak any more. Ask the young flowers of South Carolina, that were killed by a psychopath. And he looked a little bit pale and slightly aged when the execution team finally (after years of appellations) was finally leading him to South Carolina's Old Sparkey. From their standpoint the universe would be a much better place if their murderers were prevented by God from torturing and killing them. Wouldn't you agree ...?  🤠

By the way, that Larry Gene Bell worked as an electrician before. I guess there is such a thing I'd call diabolic inspired irony after all.

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On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 12:36 PM, Jane_Doe said:

 

And what you/I feel is nothing compared to what they feel.  And what they feel in nothing compared to what God feels.  

Just an observation.  This statement SOUNDS like you are trivializing the parents.  I know you are not, but it does come across that way.

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5 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Just an observation.  This statement SOUNDS like you are trivializing the parents.  I know you are not, but it does come across that way.

For me it doesn't only come across that way, but that ice-cold statement is exactly like trivializing the parents. Thanks for your statement, I wouldn't have been able stating it with my own limited words in English. 🤠

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12 minutes ago, star.bright said:

Pluralis majestatis...? You are we...? Did you even understand my questions or aren't you that part wanting me ignorantly  listening  of what you say... any of you, of course, like some kind of a swarm intelligence...? You're WE and I'm me. Dont't sting me, as a newbee. I'm so impressed and afraid of you and your pluralis majestic wisdom and knowledge. You seemigly have a lack of sympathy and compassion, just insisting on your ice-cold religious concept. And it's nothing more than a concept.  Maybe you're God's poors concerning your swarm intelligence. In reference of Joseph Smith's reference of the poor. But maybe you don't even know that citation, swarm intelligenced idiot.

^^^^ Impaired typing, poor Google translate? I can't even tell what is going on half the time with these gibberish posts.
The one thing that is apparent is the hostility that transcends the gibberish barrier.

Chill pill anyone?
 

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17 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

^^^^ Impaired typing, poor Google translate? I can't even tell what is going on half the time with these gibberish posts.
The one thing that is apparent is the hostility that transcends the gibberish barrier.

Chill pill anyone?
 

 

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4 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Hostility.point.proven
 

I hope a lot of it is "lost in translation". It's hard to speak a different language than everyone else. 

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