Just_A_Guy Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 D&C 98:10 D&C 3:8 1 Kings 19:18 2 Nephi 9:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Oh oh oh! I can play the Bible game too! Galatians 1:15-16 1 Sam 16:1 Romans 13:1 Matt 22:21 John 18:36 Luke 7:48 God allowed for Joseph Smith Jr. to be martyred instead of becoming President paving the way for James K. Polk - a slaveholder (Smith ran on anti-slavery) - to become President. Smith was the first Presidential candidate to be killed in the middle of a campaign. Edited January 20, 2020 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, anatess2 said: Oh oh oh! I can play the Bible game too! I don't consider scripture a "game", but okay. Quote Galatians 1:15-16 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his agrace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the aheathen; immediately I conferred not with bflesh and blood: Interesting scripture. How does it apply here? Do you consider yourself called by God to reveal His Son? And how is that germane to our discussion, unless you consider Trump to be God's own Son whom you are commissioned to reveal to the rest of us heathens? Quote 1 Sam 16:1 1 And the Lord said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to aJesse the bBeth-lehemite: for I have provided me a cking among his sons. Intriguing. Allow me some follow-up questions here. 1) Have you forgotten that Israel wasn't supposed to have a king at all? (1 Sam 8:7) 2) A king from the sons of Jesse. . Hmm. Would be that miserable oaf David, who waged war after war of conquest, spent Israel into bankruptcy, slept with another man's wife, killed the man, looked the other way when one of his sons raped his daughter, generally forfeited his exaltation, and then--when God confronted David with the natural consequences of his sins--asked that God satiate the demands of justice by killing thousands of David's countrymen in a three-year famine rather, than David himself being put to the inconvenience of being on the run from his enemies for three months? That David? 3) Is Trump supposed to become King of the United States? If so, why did you earlier accuse *me* of "failure to protect the Constitution" when you're the one having fantasies about Trump reigning over the United States as a latter-day David? 4) Was Trump divinely anointed by the hand of . . . anyone? Or is this just a banana republic, "might-makes-right" sort of argument? Quote Romans 13:1 1 Let every soul abe subject unto the higher bpowers. For there is no cpower dbut of God: the epowers that be are ordained of God. Additional questions: 1) Does this mean that I'm not supposed to criticize high government office-holders? Or just that I'm not supposed to actively argue for their removal through the constitutional process at the next election? 2) Whichever your answer to the question above--again, why do you accuse *me* of "failure to protect the Constitution, when apparently you're the one suggesting that scripture calls for a United States of America in which no one ever expresses disapproval of the President and the President stays in office forever? 3) Did your interpretation of Romans 13:1 apply during the Obama administration; or did this millennia-old scripture suddenly spring into effect on January 20, 2017? 4) Has it ever occurred to you that Paul was writing to people in an empire, not a democracy? 5) Is Trump our emperor? Do you wish that he were? Quote Matt 22:21 21 They say unto him, Cæsar’s. Then saith he unto them, aRender therefore unto bCæsar the things which are Cæsar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. In a similar vein to my questions re Romans 13: 1) Were primitive Christians under Nero and Caligula and Domitian failing to heed this counsel when they continued to practice their religion in violation of those emperors' decrees? 2) Do you mean to suggest that one thing that was rightfully Caesar's, was immunity from criticism by his subjects? 3) How do the rights of Caesar in an empire, translate into the prerogatives of a president in a democratic republic? 4) Once again: why do you accuse *me* of "failure to protect the Constitution, when you're the one having fantasies about an idealized United States of America in which no one ever expresses disapproval of the President? 5) Once again: Did your exegesis of Matthew 22:21 apply during the Obama administration; or did this ancient scripture also suddenly spring into effect on January 20, 2017 after two thousand years of nullity? 6) Once again, @anatess2: Is Trump our emperor? Do you wish that he were? Quote John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, My akingdom is not of this bworld: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. So, Jesus' refusal to head an armed insurrection in a far-flung province of the first-century Roman empire, imposes on American Latter-day Saints not only the prerogative, but the duty, to disregard D&C 98:10 and abandon honesty, wisdom, and goodness in the management of a democratic republic? Quote Luke 7:48 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are aforgiven. Forgiveness to the penitent who confess and forsake their sins, is indeed a wondrous gift. I rather wish some of Trump's supporters would forsake their recidivist sins of telling flat-out lies about those folks who fail to make proper obeisance to their god-king. But that's one of those things that's beyond my control. C'est la vie . . . Quote God allowed for Joseph Smith Jr. to be martyred instead of becoming President paving the way for James K. Polk - a slaveholder (Smith ran on anti-slavery) - to become President. Smith was the first Presidential candidate to be killed in the middle of a campaign. Considering that the American Civil War began just sixteen years later, @anatess2, I think you just made my argument for me. A "predestination-lite", might-makes-right argument doesn't get you around D&C 98:10; it just shows you trying desperately to avoid responsibility for your idol's part in the decay that is occurring and will continue to occur. Edited January 21, 2020 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 6:26 PM, dahlia said: I have, plenty of times. Yup, so have I. In fact, many on the right talk about his moral failures and pretend that trumps all of the good he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsonJones Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 7:57 AM, anatess2 said: Venezuela and Zimbabwe - Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren Russia and Mexico - Hilary Clinton, Joe Biden, Jeb Bush Germany - Marco Rubio Philippines - Bloomberg I can go on and on... So, I could pretty much say JAG wants America to stop being America for failure to protect the Constitution. I'd put it more as Sweden - Bernie Sanders (and that's the system he has repeatedly pushed for) Mexico - Elizabeth Warren, AOC Russia - Trump ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said: I'd put it more as Sweden - Bernie Sanders (and that's the system he has repeatedly pushed for) You probably don't know what Sweden actually is now... 30 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said: Mexico - Elizabeth Warren, AOC I'm not sure I get the connection. EW and AOC don't strike me as "cartel-type" people. That would be more Hilary. 30 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said: Russia - Trump ( ) Well, might as well make a lot of use of the gazillions of taxpayer money you spent on digging up dirt on Trump and Russia. JohnsonJones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.