Openmind

Revelation that separates spouses

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4 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Here are the cold hard revealed facts.

Polygamy is currently not practiced by command of the Lord

If that were to change that would come from the Prophet of God.. Not to your husband because he does not have the keys to the Sealing Power.

Your Husband is currently married (Sealed too I am assuming) and the Lord expects him to honor those covenants with complete faithfulness.

Thus by the Revealed Word of God he has no grounds to act in anyway on his "personal revelation" that does not bring him into imminent conflict with other Revealed Words of God.

He is taking action... thus violating the commands of God in one way or another.

As for holding things sacred..  One holds the revelation sacred and he has already told you that, his actions are not sacred and have no cover.

This is exactly how I felt(current practice/would only come through prophet) and why I had been at a crossroads with him on accepting this.

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1 minute ago, Openmind said:

Thank you for the laugh...I needed that.

I wasn't meant for a laugh.  Casting pearls before swine is indeed foolish or worse, but in this case, the pearls may be fake, and the bishop is not swine, so casting these pearls before the bishop to receive guidance from one with keys seems wise.

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1 minute ago, zil said:

I wasn't meant for a laugh.  Casting pearls before swine is indeed foolish or worse, but in this case, the pearls may be fake, and the bishop is not swine, so casting these pearls before the bishop to receive guidance from one with keys seems wise.

I know it was in all seriousness. Believe me I know. But the idea of my bishop being swine did relieve stress and tension. Thank you for that.

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Guest Mores
Just now, Openmind said:

Honestly I would want  him to get the help he needs to kick this if this were drugs.

So, what is the difference?  One is a physical drug.  The other is a spiritual drug.  Which should give you greater concern?

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2 hours ago, Openmind said:

It took me two full days of this time to convince him not to even approach her about being a special friend in the preexistence. The *only* arguement I could get through to him was that he would probably be seen as some kind if weirdo going up to a woman who is very new to our area, younger, single, and not staying for an extended time, and saying "I think we knew each other in the preexistence and that we were more than just friends, that we were especially close, and loved each other deeply".

If you really want this behavior to end, you might consider encouraging him to say this to her.  Any woman with half a brain would run away screaming. (Note: this isn't very good advice. But if he did say this, at least you and she could bond about what a psycho nut job your husband is)

Approaching your Relief Society president would not be inappropriate here. In fact, I'd encourage you to speak to her over speaking to your bishop.  

More importantly, I'd strongly recommend you ask your husband to go to counseling with you.  And keep in mind, those that resist the suggestion of counseling the most are the ones that most desperately need it.  

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32 minutes ago, Openmind said:

This is exactly how I felt(current practice/would only come through prophet) and why I had been at a crossroads with him on accepting this.

Because your husband is in one of two classic blunders when it comes to personal revelations.  The first blunder is mistaking the source.  Joseph Smith stated there are revelations of God, of Man, and of Devil.  Learning to tell the different is something we all must do... and there not much someone else can do to help with that.

The second blunder is mistaking the timing.  Sometimes the Lord reveals things for now and sometimes he reveals things that are years or decades away.  Trying to rush the Lord's timing is clearly a mistake.  Assuming your husband's revelation is of God then he is clearly rushing the timing.  Anyone that understands the gospel knows that God has to put things into place before polygamy can return.  Therefore this type of revelation falls not into the take action category but the wait on the Lord category

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3 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Because your husband is in one of two classic blunders when it comes to personal revelations.  The first blunder is mistaking the source.  Joseph Smith stated there are revelations of God, of Man, and of Devil.  Learning to tell the different is something we all must do... and there not much someone else can do to help with that.

The second blunder is mistaking the timing.  Sometimes the Lord reveals things for now and sometimes he reveals things that are years or decades away.  Trying to rush the Lord's timing is clearly a mistake.  Assuming your husband's revelation is of God then he is clearly rushing the timing.  Anyone that understands the gospel knows that God has to put things into place before polygamy can return.  Therefore this type of revelation falls not into the take action category but the wait on the Lord category

I don't disagree with what you've written above, but consider the revelation in context, as it has been told to us. Would the Lord give such a revelation to a man concerning something that is for the next life and that will not—cannot—touch his life now? I do not pretend to know the mind of God, but I submit that the Lord would give no such revelation. I find the idea unbelievable.

To compound it, we are to believe that the Lord would give such a revelation to a man who has neither the spiritual maturity nor the good sense to keep his mouth shut about it. True, the Lord has in the past revealed things to people which those people have then blabbed, and thus disqualified themselves from future revelation, in some cases perhaps permanently. Doubtless this happens now and will happen in the future. But is that really what is going on in this particular case? I very seriously doubt it.

I give this supposed revelation zero credence. I suppose it's always possible that the OP has very badly misunderstood her husband, or maybe even is making the whole thing up. But if we accept the OP at face value, I can find literally no reason to suppose the husband is either correct or honestly mistaken in the revelation he claims to have had.

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1 minute ago, Vort said:

I don't disagree with what you've written above, but consider the revelation in context, as it has been told to us. Would the Lord give such a revelation to a man concerning something that is for the next life and that will not—cannot—touch his life now? I do not pretend to know the mind of God, but I submit that the Lord would give no such revelation. I find the idea unbelievable.

To compound it, we are to believe that the Lord would give such a revelation to a man who has neither the spiritual maturity nor the good sense to keep his mouth shut about it. True, the Lord has in the past revealed things to people which those people have then blabbed, and thus disqualified themselves from future revelation, in some cases perhaps permanently. Doubtless this happens now and will happen in the future. But is that really what is going on in this particular case? I very seriously doubt it.

I give this supposed revelation zero credence. I suppose it's always possible that the OP has very badly misunderstood her husband, or maybe even is making the whole thing up. But if we accept the OP at face value, I can find literally no reason to suppose the husband is either correct or honestly mistaken in the revelation he claims to have had.

Agreed....  However for the spouse trying to help it might be easier to convince the Husband that he needs to wait and basically stand down... then to convince him that he is wrong.

 

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I fully believe that he has convinced himself that this is true. I have been operating on that belief when I acted in the sense of trying to convince him 1) to not speak to her about it, and 2) to not have anything about her(pics or any other forms of info) on his phone. This was my attempt at preventing further action on his part, but even in these requests he has not complied ( he is finding excuses to get out of removing the remaining pics that I specifically mentioned to my phone). Some may wonder why not to just delete  them entirely but they are of others as well that were at a baptism that our family considers friends. I could photoshop them to remove her but they are still on his phone...

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22 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Agreed....  However for the spouse trying to help it might be easier to convince the Husband that he needs to wait and basically stand down... then to convince him that he is wrong.

 

I keep hoping that he will come to the realization himself (repentance can only occur if he feels godly sorrow).

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Are there other problems/struggles in your marriage?  Is there a specific reason he could be drawn to infatuation with another woman?

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We had been spending more time together in the last year, talking, walking and just being together. That's why I don't understand. I was under the impression things were great in all areas because I was and thought he was working on all of them to be closer, but apparently something's missing. We have family/personal and even couple  scripture study, we go to church, we have family home evening, we have done every weeks lesson for come follow me 2019, we do temple work, we do family history work, we help others when we can, see all these "we"s? That's why I thought we were on the right track. I have been analyzing everything. Attitudes, moods, speech, time, spirituality, everything. I just dont know where this came from.

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Don't give up on your husband or your marriage. Take charge of moving things in a healthy direction. I'm no psychologist (nor am I any sort of fan of modern psychology), but I would hazard a guess that your husband may be having some tough emotional issues in his life, and unfortunately is handling them poorly.

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1 minute ago, Openmind said:

I even thought of the classic excuse "midlife crisis".

I will tell you from personal observation that this is a real thing for many men. Obviously, it doesn't justify something like infidelity or even telling your wife that some other woman will be your real wife in the life to come. But it could be a contributing factor.

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10 minutes ago, Openmind said:

We had been spending more time together in the last year, talking, walking and just being together. That's why I don't understand. I was under the impression things were great in all areas because I was and thought he was working on all of them to be closer, but apparently something's missing. We have family/personal and even couple  scripture study, we go to church, we have family home evening, we have done every weeks lesson for come follow me 2019, we do temple work, we do family history work, we help others when we can, see all these "we"s? That's why I thought we were on the right track. I have been analyzing everything. Attitudes, moods, speech, time, spirituality, everything. I just dont know where this came from.

There could be a very real medical issue coming into play here (such as clinical depression).  Doctors are there to help us take care of our bodily temples (which included the brain).  

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5 hours ago, Openmind said:

In addition to all the many days spent fasting and praying to know the truth.

If. after all this time, and all this fasting and prayer, you still haven't received a confirmation of the truthful of what he claims, then it is probably not true. 

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Or it could be a simple grass is greener kind of issue.   Reality will always be more disappointing then fantasy and 'what if.'  But it has the advantage being real and existing

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1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

Or it could be a simple grass is greener kind of issue.

This is along the lines of what I would imagine is happening.

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4 hours ago, Openmind said:

Here is what I have done...

We spoke for 4 days with very little sleep and almost no food when he was confronted with my knowledge of his emotional attachment to this woman on his side. (Let me make it clear, she has no knowledge of anything.)

During the entire time, my husband never varied from his claims. I was able to clearly see that he truly believes all of it. He just refuses to see how it affects us and our relationship now, here, on this earth.

He told and tells me my fears are irrational, as his feelings are "pure" love for her as his special friend from the preexistence and as his wife in the eternities and that he has no physical desire for her. He fully believes this.

He says that getting information about her (including all [not just some] of her pictures) was necessary for him to decide if said revelation was from god or not. He had to "study it out". 

He says he has been praying about it and the joy and hope and love he is feeling "in his heart" are so intense that he just can't even think it is not true without questioning everything else he knows to be true.

It took me two full days of this time to convince him not to even approach her about being a special friend in the preexistence. The *only* arguement I could get through to him was that he would probably be seen as some kind if weirdo going up to a woman who is very new to our area, younger, single, and not staying for an extended time, and saying "I think we knew each other in the preexistence and that we were more than just friends, that we were especially close, and loved each other deeply".

I tried everything else I could think of to convince him otherwise.

During that four days, I cried, I prayed, I fasted, I tried to see it his way, I tried to accept that it could be truth(even though he was wanting to take action on it by having me keep tabs on her for him, and by his giving love to her now, here and not waiting for the eternities).

He knows I don't understand it. Because I don't. 

He says I am hardhearted, that I am being selfish, that him not seeking out that friendship here(mortality) could damage his friendship with her there(eternity) as his wife.

I'll  admit when we went to church I was very uncharitable in my thoughts when I heard that she had hurt her ankle within the few days before church. I asked for a blessing from my bishop before church without my husband's knowledge to deal with those feelings of lack of charity. I felt unworthy to take the sacrament because of my feelings towards her until I got the blessing and prayed for forgiveness for feeling such.

I am trying to see clearly.  My children know something is different, they say daddy is happy, but yet not really here. They see his distraction and wonder at it.

 

Even if the revelation is true, I can't see any reason why it should be a reason for him to changes his behaviour in mortality. If it's true that he's going to marry this woman in the next life, then he's going to marry this woman in the next life, regardless of whether or not he becomes friends with her here and now. If its true that he's going to marry her in the next life, then its in the next life that he needs to start building an association with her, not now. Perhaps you could ask him why, or on what basis, he needs to start developing an acquaintance with her here and now, given that the revelation said that he will marry not here and not now. I can't see any logical connection between him receiving a revelation that he will marry someone else in the next life, and the need for him to start building a relationship with that person now. The revelation does not explain or excuse the behaviour.

On a related matter, many years ago, a sister in another ward told my mum that she had received a spirtual impression that in the eternities she will marry my brother. My brother was already dead at that time and was single at the time he died, with no current romantic interest. I can't remember if the sister who said this was already married at the time she said this to my mum. However,  even after she was married, she continued to believe that she would marry my brother in the next life. 

Edited by askandanswer

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I'm so sorry you are in this situation.  We had a lesson at home recently on what revelation is and isn't--it's from the article by Dallin H. Oaks, August 2013, In His Own Time, In His Own Way, from the Ensign magazine, it's full of good quotes but my favorite was, "Those who pray that the Spirit might give them immediate guidance in every little thing throw themselves open to the false spirits that seem ever ready to answer our pleas and confuse us...the people I have found most confused in this Church are those who seek personal revelations on everything."  I liked this because that Sunday in a member in church was chewing everyone out for not having revelation/answer for everything because to her anything that popped into her head was clear revelation AND it happened everytime and we were just all spiritual weaklings according to her who didn't have enough faith.  This is a dangerous theory to hold.  I knew a sister who had to leave her husband because the thought popped into his head in the temple that he needed to have incestuous relations with his daughter, and he was determined it was revelation.  Whenever I think God is asking me to break a covenant, I just remember that story from the Old Testament where a prophet had an angel appear to him and tell him to break a covenant--and then God punished him with a lion eating him--moral of the story, it's a test, don't break your covenants.  It's totally possible that things will work out with your husband, but you have to get around his knee jerk defensiveness, defensiveness is THE big challenge of relationships because people have low self-esteem and they're trying to defend themselves.  He really feels this is revelation, false revelation alone isn't a reason to break up--it's what he does with it, and let's face it God might go easy on him because he made an innocent mistake. So you need to plan out CAREFUL conversation--go and get yourself some high quality books on communication to navigate the discussion.  "Okay, I haven't received personal revelation on this," (he thinks yeah, you get it) let's say that I'm spiritually weaker than you," (he thinks probably) and the revelation is real and none of my business (he feels heard), is it possible that it's a test to see if you'll keep your covenants?  Just wondering cause...(cue the man-eating lion Old testament story--he thinks maybe, but he might still defend, that's okay you're not here to fight)  I am not saying you are like this, but see I get really concerned when I hear about some of the early saints where some men got a big self-esteem boost from the possibility of having another wife and some got themselves kicked out of the church over their obsession with it (don't worry he defends, so not me).  It crushes me because without revelation I can only conclude that I'm not a fulfilling wife, and that you need another wife to be happy--please honestly tell me that you can be happy with just me and you're not even fantasizing over how much better things will be with her.  (I have no idea what he'll say, you definitely need a good relationship with the Spirit of God here to navigate this tricky subject, but if he says don't worry...) I'm wondering if it would be safer to just not think about it anymore and have getting to know her in the next life be a fun surprise, I know if God allowed multiple husbands and revealed to me who number two is you wouldn't be comfortable with me dreaming about him, however innocently.  Also have you ever considered that she might turn you down?  Lots of men receive revelations on future wives but get turned down; I'm wondering if it's wise to put stock in this, after all you did say 'probably'.  Surely there's got to be a way to have hope again beyond dreaming of your mansion above." (and who can argue with those last words, they're in a hymn)

If that doesn't work, and he's determined to make her a hobby...then...and I'm probably making a huge mistake advising you on this as she might talk to him about it, call the cops, or welcome his advances.  But if there's anyway you can get her to abandon her friendship with him that would be great, as I'm sure most good women don't want to sabotage anyone's relationship.  However it will probably only buy you time and he may be angry even if he doesn't think it's you.  You probably need a marriage counselor that's good, believes in the church, and won't make your husband defensive and work through his low self-esteem as it's clear he believes the revelation is real.  I'll pray for you.  Don't let it shake your faith.  I used to believe that God had to constantly flame men's egos and give multiple wives and the priesthood to men because their self-esteem is so fragile or something.  But over the years I've found that God is much more just and wise than that and has different purposes in mind.  Getting self-esteem over power is called priestcraft and is dangerous to tolerate in heaven--why would God let your husband in there if he demands a different woman to be happy?  However, forgive me if I'm wrong, it seems like you are looking for resources to defend yourself and back yourself up when the priority might be to save your relationship and show your floundering husband that you are his support and are worth many wives to him in his hardest times.  At BYU we learned that defensiveness, criticism, contempt, and stonewalling (essentially separation) are the four horsemen of a marriage apocalypse, you don't want these in your life (I won't post the author but you can look him up).  I know I good book about finding the hero in your husband, basically helping him feel good about himself, but I won't post the details to avoid advertising--but I think it is important that you find a way to support him and give him an alternative to dreaming of his mansion above to be happy.

Edited by Sort-of Young Mom
Trying to avoid post being hidden, I'm fixing mistakes

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Thoughts from a stranger (and late to respond):

1. The Lord is able to reveal "all" truth (past, present, future) if we are able to receive it and it is the will of God.

2. The adversary is able to deceive and mimic revelation even an angel of light.

3. There is a difference between receiving a revelation and acting on a revelation. Right now your husband (according to the information we have) is acting on the revelation he feels he received. He is having an emotional affair (as pointed out by @Mores) and is breaking the commandment to "cleave" unto you and unto none else. A revelation that may/may not happen in the next life doesn't excuse breaking any commandment in this life. "Studying it out" is an excuse, not a reason. Studying it out would be reading his scriptures, fasting and praying, and attending the temple to understand the revelation (assuming he received) and to obtain further witness, while cleaving unto you and unto none else.

4. If he received revelation, then you also have the right to receive revelation pertaining to the same truth as this revelation does and is affecting you. I would encourage and invite you to read, study, ponder, attend the temple, and fast and pray. We often dismiss our own ability to receive revelation, and thus miss out on receiving an experience that allows us to know how much our Father in heaven loves us.

5. You may need to "reproof betimes with sharpness" before it is too late, and then show an increase in love afterwards.

6. Pertaining to "trust." Trust is earned, not a given. You can trust a revelation while making it clear you do not trust his actions are inline with the Lord and his commandments. You can be honest and say, "I don't know if you have received a revelation, the Lord hasn't revealed anything to me, but I do know your actions right now are not inline with cleaving unto your wife and unto none else."

 

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