carlimac

Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

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38 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Heh...   I was just going to say if the roles were reversed... We would be telling the guy to get a clue... stop being all creepy obsessive and that this was a clear NO and NO means NO.

But it looks like you got there before me

It wasn’t a clear anything. 

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46 minutes ago, zil said:

Continuation to above: A woman-friend would tell her crying friend to "go ahead and let it all out".  Whereas a man tries to figure out how to make it stop.  IMO, the man would do better to learn to say "go ahead and let it all out".

It seems you are a Jeff Foxworthy fan.

 

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Back to the original question: I’d like to hear how some of you have handled things when what has appeared to be either pure inspiration or clear answer to prayer at first has turned out not to be so.
Did you just shrug and say “oh well”? Or did it make you question your ability to  recognize promptings at all?

Tell me about a time when you were sure of a prompting...then things turned out different. How did you feel? What did you do? Did you back-pedal or come up with a different “reason” for the prompting? Or were you able to say, “I was mistaken”. It doesn’t have to be about relationships. It can be about anything.

Edited by carlimac

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8 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Back to the original question: I’d like to hear how some of you have handled things when what has appeared to be either pure inspiration or clear answer to prayer at first has turned out not to be so.
Did you just shrug and say “oh well”? Or did it make you question your ability to  recognize promptings at all?

Tell me about a time when you were sure of a prompting...then things turned out different. How did you feel? What did you do?

So, this happened to me just this morning, actually.  I got called to be ward Sunday School president and have been considering who to recommend to fill out the presidency.  I spent all week mulling it over with one particular person in mind, and then yesterday the second and third just fell into place and it seemed to all make sense.  I texted the bishop about it this morning and was told that the one person I’d been thinking about all week—who I was more sure about than either of the other two, and who had been on the list of potential names that my bishop had given me—is now unavailable.  (Stinkin’ elders’ quorum!) 

I don’t know what to make of it.  I am still convinced it could have been a great presidency and that this particular brother would have been a big part of that.  But . . . meh, I guess.  God knows more than I do.  Maybe I misinterpreted, or maybe there will be a future time when I need to know what could have been.  Frankly, I’ve  got too much else on my plate to really dwell on it.

I wonder sometimes, if much of the angst of my youth was really just a byproduct of me not having enough to do.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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54 minutes ago, zil said:

Whereas a man tries to figure out how to make it stop.

If it's a woman crying, then yes, a man's tendency is to try to solve the problem so the woman isn't unhappy (which is what tears mean, after all!). If it's another man who is crying, the guy is more likely just to sit quietly and figure out if he can offer support in some way. Which probably means sitting quietly.

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10 hours ago, carlimac said:

Yes, I agree. Whole articles have been written about this phenomenon. It's really unnerving. And honestly, I think maybe we do ourselves a disservice by asking God to take control of situations like this. Humans ( me more than my daughter) need to just accept what is and try not to interject some false spiritual impression into the mix.  If he doesn't like her, he doesn't like her, no matter how perfect they look together "on paper." 


Shortly after my mission, I dated a young lady who was pretty amazing. When I prayed, I felt that she would be a great eternal spouse for me. This was exciting! 
 

However, I then felt to pray further and ask if I would be a great eternal spouse for her. The answer was, “No.” I would not have been the person she would need. 
 

This was a turning point for me in my spiritual progression in realizing that sometimes I wasn’t asking the right questions. 
 

I have since found that there is often further insight to be gained in most anything God reveals. Just like Lehi’s dream, it was actually Nephi’s further questioning that gave us the insights we have come to rely on. 

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14 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

(Though I confess that having daughters, and taking people’s kids away for a living, does tend to facilitate a certain amount of immunity after a while . . .)

Wow JAG! Any girl would be LUCKY - quite fortunate indeed - to have you break up with her.

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16 hours ago, carlimac said:

Here is part two of the story:

 Even after he ghosted her I still felt like he was right for her...against all odds. She was disheartened  that he ignored her so she had deleted his number from her phone. Even if she wanted to talk to him again  she really had no way of contacting him. (They are both off Mutual at this point)  Bit I still felt positive about it. They seemed like a perfect match. I prayed that the Lord’s will be done. If there was a good reason he had dropped her but still had feelings for her perhaps the Lord could provide a way, work a miracle of sorts to get these two back together.   Lo and behold, she called me the first day of the new semester. “Mom, guess who is in my___________class?” It was him. I was genuinely surprised. She had not seen or talked to him for 5 months. No contact whatsoever. Then he ends up in her class? Wow! With this news hope was restored. I’m thanking God and thinking it’s going to happen after all. 

But two weeks into this class, and he has not acknowledged her. I’ve encouraged her to make her presence known, at least say hello to him. She says she’s quite sure he knows she’s in this class of over 100 students. She saw him notice her and then look the other way. 🤨 He obviously is still avoiding her. 

Ok so now I’m feeling sheepish. This very clearly wasn’t an answer to prayer. My impressions that these two will end up together were just my own desires- not spiritual promptings at all. So now if there must be a “reason” for this apparent miracle- these two having a class together it’s to put a final nail in the coffin of this potential relationship. 

Actually, I doubt the Lord had anything to do with it. They simply both had to take that class this semester. He’s graduating. She has two more years. 
 

I just really wonder how often we make something of what we think are impressions or works of God when they really aren’t.

I am a little late to providing thoughts on this and may repeat what others have shared, and if so, well then I am simply another witness. Here are some thoughts:

We are informed that there are no coincidences when it comes to God being in our lives. The story of the boy being in the same class with your daughter allows the potential theories, all of which could be true or wrong:

a. This experience is for your daughter to come to the knowledge that he isn't interested. He knows she's there. He knows he is in her class but hasn't spoken with her.

b. Another opportunity for him to recognize that the Lord has placed someone compatible with him. Sadly, he may be afraid. I had a friend who almost married a girl, but when he thought about loosing his single life he ended the relationship.

c. The young man may have prayed and the Lord said, "No." He himself is confused and not sure why the Lord said "No" and doesn't want to confuse his answer by putting himself in a situation where he may marry someone the Lord said No, but whom he was hoping it was a "Yes."

I could come up with other thoughts/theories that are from conference talks, scriptures, etc... but I think you get the picture of what I am painting.

Your thought/impressions remind me of the notion of soul mates. We have to remember there are no soul mates (despite what others feel) and has been clearly taught. As such, your impression hinges upon a soul mate type scenario. Judge impressions by revealed truth, and always remember we can receive further witness. Similar to a man/woman who is starting to receive impressions that they may be called to a specific calling, and then they aren't called. Why? Because, the Lord is allowing a person to know they are worthy of the calling, and in fact they may have been one of two people (maybe three) being discussed.

Yes, as we are are growing grace for grace, there will be times where we will confuse impressions or not understand them, or simply due to our personal feelings we allow ourselves or put ourselves in a position to receive a false impression.

12 years ago I had an impression regarding a topic I was studying and seeking to understanding. The impression was that something would happen in 9-10 years. When I realized one way this impression would/could come true I prayed and prayed that it would not happen. There were other ways it could come true also. Well, it has been 13 years and nothing resulted.

I don't know if due to the second impression of how it could happen, but due to may fervent prayers it didn't happen. Or simply, I was caught up in my own studies and feelings that I allowed a false impression to enter my heart and mind. One thing though, I never shared with anyone the impression, but wrote it in my journal. Or simply, it has come to pass, and the Lord is simply waiting for the right time (9-10 may have been simply the beginning of the prophecy, not the end).

We are all progressing. The point being, even if we do have a false impression, or what we consider is false it doesn't negate the true impressions that have already happened. They are still true. We then move forward with faith, hope, and charity leading us into all good works until we reach a more sure word of prophecy and revelation.

Edited by Anddenex

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41 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I am a little late to providing thoughts on this and may repeat what others have shared, and if so, well then I am simply another witness. Here are some thoughts:

1) We are informed that there are no coincidences when it comes to God being in our lives. The story of the boy being in the same class with your daughter allows the potential theories, all of which could be true or wrong:

a. This experience is for your daughter to come to the knowledge that he isn't interested. He knows she's there. He knows he is in her class but hasn't spoken with her. Yet he hasn't spoken with her.

b. Another opportunity for him to recognize that the Lord has placed someone compatible with him. Sadly, he may be afraid. I had a friend who almost married a girl, but when he thought about loosing his single life he ended the relationship.

c. The young man may have prayed and the Lord said, "No." He himself is confused and not sure why the Lord said "No" and doesn't want to confuse his answer by putting himself in a situation where he may marry someone the Lord said No, but whom he was hoping it was a "Yes."

I could come up with other thoughts/theories that are from conference talks, scriptures, etc... but I think you get the picture of what I am painting.

2) Your thought/impressions remind me of the notion of soul mates. We have to remember there are no soul mates (despite what others feel) and has been clearly taught. As such, your impression hinges upon a soul mate type scenario. Judge impressions by revealed truth, and always remember we can receive further witness. Similar to a man/woman who is starting to receive impressions that they may be called to a specific calling, and then they aren't called. Why? Because, the Lord is allowing a person to know they are worthy of the calling, and in fact they may have been one of two people (maybe three) being discussed.

3) Yes, as we are are growing grace for grace, there will be times where we will confuse impressions or not understand them, or simply due to our personal feelings we allow ourselves or put ourselves in a position to receive a false impression.

12 years ago I had an impression regarding a topic I was studying and seeking to understanding. The impression was that something would happen in 9-10 years. When I realized one way this impression would/could come true I prayed and prayed that it would not happen. There were other ways it could come true also. Well, it has been 13 years and nothing resulted.

I don't know if due to the second impression of how it could happen, but due to may fervent prayers it didn't happen. Or simply, I was caught up in my own studies and feelings that I allowed a false impression to enter my heart and mind. One thing though, I never shared with anyone the impression, but wrote it in my journal. Or simply, it has come to pass, and the Lord is simply waiting for the right time (9-10 may have been simply the beginning of the prophecy, not the end).

We are all progressing. The point being, even if we do have a false impression, or what we consider is false it doesn't negate the true impressions that have already happened. They are still true. We then move forward with faith, hope, and charity leading us into all good works until we reach a more sure word of prophecy and revelation.

I appreciate this. I really do. But it’s mentally exhausting. I would think if the Lord wanted us to know or do something it wouldn’t be so murky, requiring mental gymnastics and contortions to have it make sense. 
 

There have been times in my life when I have had clear impressions. Small things like how to comfort a hurting child or testifying of God to a doubting son. Clear, precise.  I guess  when we have to work so hard to justify something or cram a puzzle piece in where it doesn’t fit, it wasn’t a true prompting. 
 

I do believe in coincidences and chance happenings. Even after praying for that thing, it isn’t always from God. 

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53 minutes ago, carlimac said:

I would think if the Lord wanted us to know or do something it wouldn’t be so murky, requiring mental gymnastics and contortions to have it make sense.
 

There have been times in my life when I have had clear impressions. Small things like how to comfort a hurting child or testifying of God to a doubting son. Clear, precise.  I guess  when we have to work so hard to justify something or cram a puzzle piece in where it doesn’t fit, it wasn’t a true prompting. 
 

I do believe in coincidences and chance happenings. Even after praying for that thing, it isn’t always from God. 

If this were so, we wouldn't have all the experiences we have (and the story from Elder Holland regarding a wrong path). We could easily say, "Well, if the impression was really from God -- as God is good -- he wouldn't lead anyone down the wrong path to get to the right path."

I could tell another story of a friend, but I would be extending my bounds in sharing their story. It was very enlightening to have them explain what happened to them all due to an impression. What you would call murky and unclear, but due to that impression they were prepared and better prepared than if the impression never came.

If we are "justifying" an impression and working hard to justify it, then yes, we probably have received a wrong impression. Impressions will unfold in their time, the Lord's time.

I was simply repeating what President Monson, and Elder Bednar have said, "I believe that in the work of the Lord there is no such thing as a coincidence. The worth of souls is great in the sight of God."


 

 

Edited by Anddenex

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Life being a test to see if we will truly choose to follow God... and potential for situations to be murky or confusing are why we are taught a pattern for receiving and acting on revelations.

We are to pray, we are to study, we are to make a choice in action, we are to take that choice to the Lord for confirmation .   Skipping any steps are bad... skipping that last step is what many people do.

The prayer, "Hey Lord I think this is the action you want me to take right now so I am going to... Is this what you want me to do?"  Fits right into the pattern... is a simple yes or no answer... It shows faith, agency and a thy will be done all in one.  And it could save a lot of heart ache. 

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23 hours ago, carlimac said:

Since we've been instructed to focus on personal revelation and how it comes to us I've been wondering a lot about what is revelation and if some of it is fabricated to fit our situation, to save face.

Here's an example: I have a daughter in college who I love and admire so very much! She is awesome!! Beautiful, kind, smart, loving sibling, RM, artistic and musical talents, loves to do active things like hike, play soccer, ice skate, in great shape, etc. Dream girl in my opinion. But she's also quiet and not terribly outgoing. She was having a dating dry spell about 9-10 months ago and  she said she felt spiritually impressed to go on Mutual (dating app), which she did. She got lots of match ups and went on sometimes 2-3 dates a week for awhile. She had fun but nothing earth shaking happened- usually just one-and-done dates kind of thing. Then she matched up with Mr. Mutual as I call him. She fell hard for him. She ended up going out with him a few times and then the semester ended and he went home. About that time she says she prayed and felt  like she should get off Mutual now. That it's purpose was fulfilled. She was smitten. We thought "he's the one".  She kind of arranged her summer to be around when he was around rather than spend the whole summer at home. They went out again. And then he completely "ghosted" her. Like, went Poof! She was very hurt. She texted him and he never replied. 

So now she feels like the reason she felt impressed to do Mutual at all was not to meet him, but just to get out of her dating rut. Which helped- she did get out of it. But now she's back in a dreary dry spell again. So was she really feeling the spirit when she opened a Mutual account? Or was she doing like we sometimes do when we see spiritual promptings as one thing but it doesn't pan out like we thought it would. So we unconciously make up another reason why we were "impressed" to do or think or say something?  Was it really a spiritual prompting at all or just a desire?

She's a very good, spiritually in -tune person. So I'm not trying to question her integrity at all. I'm just wondering if we Church members tend to put more stock in "impressions" than we should. 

There is more to the story but I'll leave it there for now. 

 

I am one that dated a lot but managed to screw up most social stuff I was involved with - with the one exception of marriage.  One thing I have learned about revelation - the easier it is to receive a revelation - the more difficult it will be to live up to it.

I would make a suggestion about your daughter.  I have some apartments in Provo that I rent to mostly BYU male college students.  I have one very impressive student (guy) that is completing his PHD in electrical engineering this year.  He is an RM, an athletic (cyclist)  and I have known him as a tenant for a few years (you learn a lot about a person when you rent a living space to them).  He is leaving BYU without his MRS.  He is a typical engineer - which is problematic for many young ladies that like guys good at putting on a romantic show.  If your inspired daughter is smart enough to get along with an engineering mind - this guy has offers that would allow living in very upscale places just about any where in the USA.

 

The Traveler

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On 1/16/2020 at 4:29 PM, carlimac said:

Since we've been instructed to focus on personal revelation and how it comes to us I've been wondering a lot about what is revelation and if some of it is fabricated to fit our situation, to save face.

Here's an example: I have a daughter in college who I love and admire so very much! She is awesome!! Beautiful, kind, smart, loving sibling, RM, artistic and musical talents, loves to do active things like hike, play soccer, ice skate, in great shape, etc. Dream girl in my opinion. But she's also quiet and not terribly outgoing. She was having a dating dry spell about 9-10 months ago and  she said she felt spiritually impressed to go on Mutual (dating app), which she did. She got lots of match ups and went on sometimes 2-3 dates a week for awhile. She had fun but nothing earth shaking happened- usually just one-and-done dates kind of thing. Then she matched up with Mr. Mutual as I call him. She fell hard for him. She ended up going out with him a few times and then the semester ended and he went home. About that time she says she prayed and felt  like she should get off Mutual now. That it's purpose was fulfilled. She was smitten. We thought "he's the one".  She kind of arranged her summer to be around when he was around rather than spend the whole summer at home. They went out again. And then he completely "ghosted" her. Like, went Poof! She was very hurt. She texted him and he never replied. 

So now she feels like the reason she felt impressed to do Mutual at all was not to meet him, but just to get out of her dating rut. Which helped- she did get out of it. But now she's back in a dreary dry spell again. So was she really feeling the spirit when she opened a Mutual account? Or was she doing like we sometimes do when we see spiritual promptings as one thing but it doesn't pan out like we thought it would. So we unconciously make up another reason why we were "impressed" to do or think or say something?  Was it really a spiritual prompting at all or just a desire?

She's a very good, spiritually in -tune person. So I'm not trying to question her integrity at all. I'm just wondering if we Church members tend to put more stock in "impressions" than we should. 

There is more to the story but I'll leave it there for now. 

I think it is more important to act in faith (and in good faith) than to expect to act by inspiration or impressions. The Lord will stand behind our interpretations and even our misinterpretations in that He will not let us get too far off track. So I think using hindsight to second-guess our impressions in a way that discourages us from acting in faith is not helpful. I don't think it matters whether we act upon a spiritual prompting or a well-considered, good-faith desire; the aim is to remain close to the Lord.

I do think it is important to follow promptings, whether from the Lord or our good faith desires--what else can we possibly do, than to do nothing and not learn?

I seem to recall a number of articles on this subject in last year's Ensign magazines (young adult digital-only).

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Well she finally talked to him. He was "nice and normal" to her as she put it. She says she's glad I encouraged her to talk to him- break the ice, shrink the elephant in the room. That may be the end of it. But at least it would be closure for her rather than him just fading away and always wondering what happened to him. The ball is squarely in his court if anything more is going to happen. I can pray my guts out, and even if it's a relationship the Lord would approve of, the guy still has his agency. It's not  up to me to get inspiration on who she should end up with. but I can and do get inspiration on how to urge my children forward. Some need a little urging. Others not!!

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On 1/16/2020 at 1:29 PM, carlimac said:

She's a very good, spiritually in -tune person. So I'm not trying to question her integrity at all. I'm just wondering if we Church members tend to put more stock in "impressions" than we should. 

Yes we do.

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My experience of revelation (dont know if this matches how this is defined by lds) are living dreams he gives me, times he brought me out of this world and showed me things... and when I feel Him near. i learn a lot from each of these but in different ways... and when i’m not having any dream from Him or cannot feel Him near... then I’m down. The other experience was more at the start when i was new. Mostly i just feel Him near. 

 

How does lds define a revelation? 

 

 

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9 hours ago, e v e said:

My experience of revelation (dont know if this matches how this is defined by lds) are living dreams he gives me, times he brought me out of this world and showed me things... and when I feel Him near. i learn a lot from each of these but in different ways... and when i’m not having any dream from Him or cannot feel Him near... then I’m down. The other experience was more at the start when i was new. Mostly i just feel Him near. 

 

How does lds define a revelation? 

 

 

Thank you for sharing-- it was quite touching.

Revelation = God speaking to us.  The "how" this happens varies person to person, as God speaks to us individually, and even time to time.   Sometimes it's through a dream, sometime through a scripture verse impressing, sometimes it's a gentle nudge, etc.

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1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Thank you for sharing-- it was quite touching.

Revelation = God speaking to us.  The "how" this happens varies person to person, as God speaks to us individually, and even time to time.   Sometimes it's through a dream, sometime through a scripture verse impressing, sometimes it's a gentle nudge, etc.

I have kept every dream and memory and vision, written down for 6 years now... some things, I only later understand, sometimes its all so clear... It's the reason I couldnt join any evangelicals or other groups, because what He was telling me was not what I was seeing. In fact, I'm a bit shocked... on this forum people are kind... on another forum i've attended everyone argues and debates and it gets quite angry.... and so i found me fading from there.  An LDS I knew from that other forum sent me here instead. : )

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57 minutes ago, e v e said:

I have kept every dream and memory and vision, written down for 6 years now... some things, I only later understand, sometimes its all so clear... It's the reason I couldnt join any evangelicals or other groups, because what He was telling me was not what I was seeing. In fact, I'm a bit shocked... on this forum people are kind... on another forum i've attended everyone argues and debates and it gets quite angry.... and so i found me fading from there.  An LDS I knew from that other forum sent me here instead. : )

Yeah this forum is a no-arguing allowed zone.

I personally enjoy the peace.

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8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Yeah this forum is a no-arguing allowed zone.

I personally enjoy the peace.

I don't know how the no arguing works, I just know I try never to argue. It doesn't help me to understand any soul... and only leads one further and further from God. :)

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On 2/7/2020 at 2:23 PM, e v e said:

I don't know how the no arguing works, I just know I try never to argue. It doesn't help me to understand any soul... and only leads one further and further from God. :)

We try not to bash other people’s faiths either.  We ask everyone, not just the LDS members on the forum, to abide by the 11th Article of Faith:

“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

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