Challenge of Faith in prayer and blessings


Queolby
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Was reading about what happens if a blessing is not fulfilled. And that even an Apostle can get it wrong and that we don't always say God's will.  It kind of makes you wonder, if an Apostle can't get it right, what makes you think that I can. It's discouraging to think that most people don't say or do the will of God, and you want to say, "what's the point of praying?" 

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

Statistically speaking, you're bound to have a 'fulfilled' blessing. If I throw a hundred knives in the air, all at once, there's going to be at least one--but not limited to--fall blade first into the ground. You see what I'm saying? A person will be 'miraculously' healed at the same rate as someone who receives a blessing. Atheist are miraculously healed without believing sometimes.

Not trying to be negative but honest with my feelings that I have always held in. Anyways, if you feel like you can say something to enlighten me, go ahead. And I love scriptural examples if you can.

Edited by Queolby
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A couple thoughts,

Do you suppose the Lord calls someone to the priesthood without a foreknowledge of all the slip ups they have in store? I do not think the people who are available to give blessings are often available only by chance or circumstance

Do you know what a successful prayer looks like? It is a prayer that fulfils it's purpose, which is to unite the will of the person praying with the will of God. Group prayers or church wide prayers are meant to unite different people together in faith. Prayer doesn't change God's will, it realizes it. Depending on faith of course.

If you think all your blessings are simply statistical happenstance, then chances are, you're not paying enough attention. Either that, or you're living beneath your privileges. I've found keeping a journal helps with the first issue.

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57 minutes ago, Queolby said:

Was reading about what happens if a blessing is not fulfilled. And that even an Apostle can get it wrong and that we don't always say God's will.  It kind of makes you wonder, if an Apostle can't get it right, what makes you think that I can. It's discouraging to think that most people don't say or do the will of God, and you want to say, "what's the point of praying?" 

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

Statistically speaking, you're bound to have a 'fulfilled' blessing. If I throw a hundred knives in the air, all at once, there's going to be at least one--but not limited to--fall blade first into the ground. You see what I'm saying? A person will be 'miraculously' healed at the same rate as someone who receives a blessing. Atheist are miraculously healed without believing sometimes.

Not trying to be negative but honest with my feelings that I have always held in. Anyways, if you feel like you can say something to enlighten me, go ahead. And I love scriptural examples if you can.

I think the main purpose of prayer is to align your will with God's on the particular point of interest. So even if someone is "wrong" and at least they are trying in good faith, God will sustain them in the long run and there will be that alignment. Once one's will is aligned, they can handle just about anything, and may even be given opportunities to know and do more. For example, in Helaman 10 was Nephi's prayer answered (verse 1, 17, 18--but read the whole Chapter because there is more to it), or did his will align with God's (verse 5, and then Chapter 11)?

Edited by CV75
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1 hour ago, Queolby said:

Was reading about what happens if a blessing is not fulfilled. And that even an Apostle can get it wrong and that we don't always say God's will.  It kind of makes you wonder, if an Apostle can't get it right, what makes you think that I can. It's discouraging to think that most people don't say or do the will of God, and you want to say, "what's the point of praying?" 

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

Statistically speaking, you're bound to have a 'fulfilled' blessing. If I throw a hundred knives in the air, all at once, there's going to be at least one--but not limited to--fall blade first into the ground. You see what I'm saying? A person will be 'miraculously' healed at the same rate as someone who receives a blessing. Atheist are miraculously healed without believing sometimes.

Not trying to be negative but honest with my feelings that I have always held in. Anyways, if you feel like you can say something to enlighten me, go ahead. And I love scriptural examples if you can.

As Pres Hinkley put it.

The trouble with most of our prayers is that we give them as if we were picking up the phone and ordering groceries - we place our order and hang up.”

The purpose of prayer is not to send God to the store and get us what we need. It is to commune with God... or in more simple terms... to talk to him.

We pray to learn his will, ask questions, make requests, etc. it isn’t just to ask for Christmas presents.

I would also add that we put too much value in human life. Not saying we should go around pretending there is no value, but dealing with death is one if the greatest battles we face as faithful members.

by definition, faith is to NOT have a knowledge. So by definition, we don’t KNOW there is an after life. When a family member dies, we are pit against our beliefs. Are they gone forever or will I see them again. We don’t know, and we won’t until we too die. We run into this with every major trial so it is easy to get worked up. we are accusing God for not answering prayers while holding to the pretense that there is no God. It’s a strange paradox or reverse “begging the question” fallacy. When we complain about unanswered prayers on major life events (like death), we are literally saying:

”God, My brother died because you didn’t answer my prayer, and now I will never see him again because you don’t exist.”

Do you see the issue there?

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When I was a kid, my grandparents would take me to the toy store for me to pick out something for a Christmas present.  I would refuse to go, and after I was forced, I would exit the store saying "I don't need or want anything- I have everything I need.  No thank you for more."  I tried really hard to be truly grateful for what I had... but truthfully there was also a second motivation: that I allowed myself to want something, then I wouldn't get it, and that would hurt-- I remembered times I had asked for something, but didn't get it.  So it was better for me to not allow myself to want anything and avoid all that possible hurt.

As an adult, I have fallen into that same mindset: I don't want to ask for anything.  I don't want to open myself up to that hurt.  I remember some times where I have asked for things-- even righteous things I felt were righteous like safety, preservation of a friendship, and I've not gotten it.  And it hurts.   Part of me wants to just surrender all reins of my life "thy will be done, I'm just a passenger in the backseat."

But is that any way to really live?

I don't think so.  I love my daughter nowadays: and she has everything she needs.  But her birthday is on Tuesday, and we're going to the bouncy-castle place for fun.  She doesn't *need* to go to the bouncy-castle place, but I want to take her because she will enjoy it a lot, and I want that enjoyment for her.  Other points we would't have been able to do the bouncy-castle place, but this year is a good year for it, and we can give that to her.  She usually doesn't understand why sometimes things go down certain ways, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't talk to me, and tell me what she wants.  

Likewise with my Father: yes, He's in control, and His will be done.  But I should still talk to Him, expressing my joys and desires, and learning... even when there's points when I don't get what feels like a righteous desire.  He's still my father, and I'm not a mindless feelingless drone, nor should I be.  

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23 hours ago, Queolby said:

Was reading about what happens if a blessing is not fulfilled. And that even an Apostle can get it wrong and that we don't always say God's will.  It kind of makes you wonder, if an Apostle can't get it right, what makes you think that I can. It's discouraging to think that most people don't say or do the will of God, and you want to say, "what's the point of praying?" 

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

Statistically speaking, you're bound to have a 'fulfilled' blessing. If I throw a hundred knives in the air, all at once, there's going to be at least one--but not limited to--fall blade first into the ground. You see what I'm saying? A person will be 'miraculously' healed at the same rate as someone who receives a blessing. Atheist are miraculously healed without believing sometimes.

Not trying to be negative but honest with my feelings that I have always held in. Anyways, if you feel like you can say something to enlighten me, go ahead. And I love scriptural examples if you can.

You are not alone with these feelings, and the only way that our hearts are changed is through searching and tasting the fruit of the truth we are looking for (rarely in these cases will someone share something that will enlighten us if we are in a negative state of mind). Here are scriptures to ponder:

1) Matthew 5: 45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

This verse of scripture should make it clear why Athiests' at times receive blessings although they do not believe. This is in part why so many Athiests' who mock God will one day see, despite their mocking, how much Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost were in their lives -- also why they will voluntarily bend the knee in worship despite their earthly beliefs.

God is and will always show how he practices what he preaches. He blesses those who persecute him (i.e. Hitchens, Dawkins, etc..). This also answers statistically speaking we will all have some fulfilled blessing in our lives. The real question though comes from the next verse of scripture.

2) Doctrine and Covenants 88: 33, "For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift."

3) Others have mentioned the following from the Bible Dictionary, "As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are His children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings." (emphasis mine)

This is one part of the gospel I struggle with. We are told in scripture that if we ask, seek, knock we will eventually receive an answer to our prayers. Exercise faith. Act in faith. God will bless you. Drawing comparisons will make this even harder. If we correlate the verses of scripture it makes it appear that the only answer will be those that align with the will of God. But if we tie other scriptures with this one we will see where the will of God was not accepted, person continued to pray, and the Lord answered their prayer which ultimately resulted in hardship. So, I guess which then do we want more the answered prayer that may result in hardship, or the unanswered prayer (because of our lack of knowledge regarding the purpose of prayer) that causes discomfort also due to our lack of knowledge?

4) Telestial laws/kingdoms will always incur telestial experiences and results.  The kingdom we are apart of will cause or allow specific events in our lives. When we as a people (all people) rise above the telestial laws/mind/heart/life we will have different experiences. Until then, we will experience the results of living in a telestial world.

 

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On 1/26/2020 at 7:31 AM, Queolby said:
 
 
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On 1/26/2020 at 7:31 AM, Queolby said:

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

How do you know that your mom, missionaries, bishops, clergy from any religion wasnt praying for you, your family, your community?

My perspective on life recently has become more from an eternal perspective, this life is short and a testing ground. The body is weak, imperfect and just a vessel. The spirit is eternal, mighty and powerful. I feel that if I focus on my relationship with our saviour and continue building treasures in heaven, any negative event in my life (death, injury, losing a job, stress, hardships) are really not that big.

My mother-in-law was an old school woman, she was difficult to understand and live with. She was divorced and single for 40yrs and seemed bitter and angry her entire life, I met people that crossed paths with her and had nothing good to say about her, but there was one thing she did good and that was remain faithful to living the gospel. Her intent was pure but she was trapped in a body with a personality she inherited from birth, along with a rough childhood and crazy marriage NO ONE (except her grandkids) really liked her. She died last summer of cancer and immediately on the day of her passing we all felt such a joy and release for her,  in her last blessing the bretheren said she would meet someone on the other side and get married. Her son and daughter both felt that on the second day of her passing she met someone on the other side.

Prayer is powerful and works, it helps us remain focused on what really matters. 

Edited by priesthoodpower
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On 1/26/2020 at 10:31 AM, Queolby said:

Was reading about what happens if a blessing is not fulfilled. And that even an Apostle can get it wrong and that we don't always say God's will.  It kind of makes you wonder, if an Apostle can't get it right, what makes you think that I can. It's discouraging to think that most people don't say or do the will of God, and you want to say, "what's the point of praying?" 

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

Statistically speaking, you're bound to have a 'fulfilled' blessing. If I throw a hundred knives in the air, all at once, there's going to be at least one--but not limited to--fall blade first into the ground. You see what I'm saying? A person will be 'miraculously' healed at the same rate as someone who receives a blessing. Atheist are miraculously healed without believing sometimes.

Not trying to be negative but honest with my feelings that I have always held in. Anyways, if you feel like you can say something to enlighten me, go ahead. And I love scriptural examples if you can.

The principles of receiving blessings are based in obedience and faith - not necessarily words spoken.  I am reminded of Isaiah speaking to King Ahaz saying in essence " you cannot understand because you are not loyal to G-d."  I understand that this is also in connection to the fulfilling of blessings - you cannot realize or believe prayers to be fulfilled or answered if you are not loyal to G-d.

 

The Traveler

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  • 2 years later...
On 1/26/2020 at 10:31 PM, Queolby said:

Was reading about what happens if a blessing is not fulfilled. And that even an Apostle can get it wrong and that we don't always say God's will.  It kind of makes you wonder, if an Apostle can't get it right, what makes you think that I can. It's discouraging to think that most people don't say or do the will of God, and you want to say, "what's the point of praying?" 

What's the point of praying for protection when people still get hurt when they pray? I went a long time without praying and I didn't get hurt. Because you know, God's will. He's just going to do what He wants regardless.

Statistically speaking, you're bound to have a 'fulfilled' blessing. If I throw a hundred knives in the air, all at once, there's going to be at least one--but not limited to--fall blade first into the ground. You see what I'm saying? A person will be 'miracle prayer to get married soon' healed at the same rate as someone who receives a blessing. Atheist are miraculously healed without believing sometimes.

Not trying to be negative but honest with my feelings that I have always held in. Anyways, if you feel like you can say something to enlighten me, go ahead. And I love scriptural examples if you can.

I believe that the basic goal of prayer is to connect your will with God's about the specific matter at hand. Therefore, God will uphold them in the long run and there will be that alignment even when someone is "wrong" but at least they are trying in good conscience. When one's will is in harmony, they are capable of handling almost anything and may even be given chances to learn and grow. Nephi's petition was fulfilled in Helaman 10 (verses 1, 17, 18; however, read the entire Chapter since there is more to it), or did his will line up with God's in passage 5, and then Chap 11.

Edited by nanek97962
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