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The video is Gorgeous. Please watch! It is about some of the 144k! (of course metaphoric, a parable).

Edited by e v e

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5 hours ago, e v e said:

okay. Well, that is probably why the mainstream christians who I know in person, friends of mine by the way, still, didn't like my view, since it implies the 'nature' all around us in Eden, sky earth etc., is different than the nature 'here' (in Eden being immortal and glorified), and that our substance, as nepesh souls (hebrew), is of His realm, not this earth. I don't know that the creeds really understood this since they are based upon platonic concepts of sustance, which is not what I am talking about at all. Anyway, what matters to me is, that each of us, He said, "is in our image". And that image is what I am referring to as substance. I'm not telling this to change your ideas at all since I don't understand fully the lds views of anything. I'm just sharing what I understand 

The image is how we appear, what we look like. We are created of the same substance He is, but it is not the substance that makes us what we are. Substance, in this definition, is the same as matter. Essence, the characteristics of a person, are mostly born with us but they can be given and learned, but I don't believe they can be shared. While we are learning them, we may rely on the person giving them, but ultimately, we must come to own them for ourselves. 

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2 hours ago, e v e said:

The 144k is complete. I have no idea who they are, personally, as in meeting them here in the flesh. I just know they are complete now.

deleted

Edited by brotherofJared
changed my mind

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2 hours ago, e v e said:

Adam will be met at the gate (the threshhold between this world and Heaven) by the 144k  who will have had the Change into their new bodies, very very soon. And he will go Before God.

 

I think it will be the other way around. The 144K and all the inhabitants of the earth will meet Adam at the gate before they go before God. Christ will receive the keys of this kingdom from the hand of the Ancient of Days (who is Adam). Those keys are the right to rule and reign over the earth, but the earth will be subdued by Adam before that occurs.

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2 hours ago, e v e said:

In fact, Adam is He, descended into flesh.

I still don't know who "He" is. I assume you mean Adam is God. Adam is a God. He is not God we worship. He is neither Christ nor is he the Father.

 

2 hours ago, e v e said:

Young thought that too

We don't know what Young thought. We have a few of his words, but not his thoughts. He stated that Adam is the only god with which we have anything to do with. I believe this is in reference to Daniel 7. Adam was given dominion over the earth and all things therein. We are part of that dominion. As such, we are under his jurisdiction but he cannot save us and though he may subdue the earth, he is not the king or the savior of this earth. It behooves him to turn over his dominion to a king who can save it.

With that, I don't know if that's what Brigham Young thought either. I'm just saying that it makes sense that he is a god. He was perfect and everlasting and his actions affected all of his children. No other man can claim that power except for one and we all agree that He is a god.

2 hours ago, e v e said:

He is Christ, who again descended into the flesh and suffered the cross, to legally make possible for His souls to go home.

That is what Christ did, but Christ is not Adam. Christ was another Adam or a second Adam by virtue of his acts, like the first, affected all men. 

I realize this is all difficult to understand, but I can make no sense of the idea that Christ died twice. If that is true, then the scriptures we have are a sham and there can be no hope. If God can die twice, then the resurrection is a false concept. 

I just want to point out that you didn't answer my question, How do you define substance? I offered my explanation of what it is. I'm curious as to what yours is.

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6 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

I still don't know who "He" is. I assume you mean Adam is God. Adam is a God. He is not God we worship. He is neither Christ nor is he the Father.

 

We don't know what Young thought. We have a few of his words, but not his thoughts. He stated that Adam is the only god with which we have anything to do with. I believe this is in reference to Daniel 7. Adam was given dominion over the earth and all things therein. We are part of that dominion. As such, we are under his jurisdiction but he cannot save us and though he may subdue the earth, he is not the king or the savior of this earth. It behooves him to turn over his dominion to a king who can save it.

With that, I don't know if that's what Brigham Young thought either. I'm just saying that it makes sense that he is a god. He was perfect and everlasting and his actions affected all of his children. No other man can claim that power except for one and we all agree that He is a god.

That is what Christ did, but Christ is not Adam. Christ was another Adam or a second Adam by virtue of his acts, like the first, affected all men. 

I realize this is all difficult to understand, but I can make no sense of the idea that Christ died twice. If that is true, then the scriptures we have are a sham and there can be no hope. If God can die twice, then the resurrection is a false concept. 

I just want to point out that you didn't answer my question, How do you define substance? I offered my explanation of what it is. I'm curious as to what yours is.

i have to reply to your posts in a few hours because it’s past my bed time. 

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2 hours ago, e v e said:

It's spiritual... sort of as DNA, except a bit different as just matter. So, we are all related that way. This being the Glorified nature, OT calls 'nephesh.' I don't know that this is the best term to convey it here, because In Genesis, the term is elohim, being His image, which is that Adam is Deity.

 

Ok. I can see your answer about what substance is. My understanding of substance is matter and is DNA. We have the same DNA. We share the structure, but like your DNA is different from my DNA, each of us owns a completely separate DNA, just as Christ and Adam and God the Father all have their own unique DNA, but are of the same species as are we.

However, many can share a spiritual connection. We see this in peoples who identify themselves by a common denominator, like American, Military, or Christian. We can see this in the words "esprit de corps". God is not the Borg. He is not assimilating us who will share his spirit. He is seeking those who, of their own volition, will join him in his work who know happiness and how to obtain it. He knows how and we can learn from him. We through him can obtain the same vision as He has, the same understanding as He has.

for example, a person plagued with same-sex attraction struggles with how this can happen if God's plan for happiness doesn't include their shortcoming. How can they ever be happy in a world where advancement comes only through marriage to the opposite sex. They may live in a heterosexual relationship but are still plagued with desire that they don't know how to escape. How is it possible to ever see it as God sees it? And if God can fix it, how wrong is it that they had to spend most, if not all, of mortality dealing with it. This just seems to be cruel.

Will this person's mind be absorbed into the great God in heaven where he has no memory of his former life where he can only think what God wants him to think? That seems to be the only way to fix it, memory wipe. But why remove from this person valuable experience which makes him unique, his understanding unique? Why not benefit from his experience? I believe each individual's unique experience folds into the whole. Each person's vision elevates everyone else's understanding, but what good would this experience be if the person still suffers?

I believe it is a matter of perspective. If God choose, He could, in an instant take away the thorn. I believe it is done by giving us understanding and it is through understanding that the individual changes. I used to complain that I had no shoes until I saw a man who had no feet. It's not that simple, but the principle is sound. I have seen people who, through sheer willpower, stopped a sin they were committing. It didn't seem to do them any good. Nothing changed in their life that was dramatic and I didn't see that they gained anything from the change. Of course, they did. Continuing in sin brings a great deal of suffering and causes the same in others. I could go on about that, but I want to discuss a change in perspective.

The word of wisdom is probably the most abused temple interview question. I know a lot of people who cheat on that question and get a temple recommend. Some drink tea because the doctor told them too in order to prevent a recurring ailment or the vape, it's not smoking and it's not tobacco or they have wine occasionally for dinner. But I had an experience that changed my life forever. I've always had a problem with caffeine (not really part of the word of wisdom, technically). I struggled with quitting caffeinated drinks for years, decades actually and then one night during prayer, I was given to understand what I was missing and I discovered that the reason I was missing it was this caffeine issue. The change was immediate and instant and required no willpower of my own. I haven't had an issue with it since. My point is that the desire was taken away because of a change in my understanding. My perspective changed. I also immediately realized the blessings associated with the change, not health, though I believe over time, my health has improved, but the blessings I realized were more of a spiritual nature. I believe this can occur and will occur for every shortcoming we have. We don't even know most of our shortcomings.

My point here is that we can share in that spiritual substance by following Christ and learning all we can about him, and by no other means can this occur. We were created, all of us, to that end if we so choose to do so. I cannot see any reason that a good person wouldn't choose this course of action. But, we see no other shared substance with God, not in us, not in Christ, not in Adam. We are all as uniquely individual as are those three as well as is the Holy Spirit.

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16 hours ago, e v e said:

The trinity = the family. 

Any thoughts? 

The Holy Trinity is a descriptor of the ESSENCE of God and not the association between the persons of God.  So no, that equation is false and in Trinitarian circles, blasphemous.

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1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

The Holy Trinity is a descriptor of the ESSENCE of God and not the association between the persons of God.  So no, that equation is false and in Trinitarian circles, blasphemous.

Yes i know. I have been told and decided to ignore that accusation since it’s not true. 

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4 minutes ago, e v e said:

Yes i know. I have been told and decided to ignore that accusation since it’s not true. 

I’m not quite sure I understand what you are saying.  

Are you saying that because you think it’s not blasphemous that you can go ahead and define the Trinity contrary to its meaning?

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5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I’m not quite sure I understand what you are saying.  

Are you saying that because you think it’s not blasphemous that you can go ahead and define the Trinity contrary to its meaning?

who is it blasphemous to? It’s a belief of some christians today and many early christians. 

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6 minutes ago, e v e said:

who is it blasphemous to? It’s a belief of some christians today and many early christians. 

The Holy Trinity is a specific concept, conceptualized by Trinitarians.  It has no relation to human families.  Your equation, therefore, is wrong.  Insisting it is not wrong because you don’t believe Trinitarians does not change the fact that The Holy Trinity is a Trinitarian concept that bears little resemblance to family.

Edited by anatess2

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i just used trinity as an example of three beings - God, His spirit and His son, together with His extended family. Im not catholic  or evangelical. I expressed what i understand. I never said the term ‘Holy trinity’, not once. The only term i used was a lowercase trinity. Just because others are used to the term. Meaning three. The family has the two parents plus child. That’s three. 

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since i’m not catholic or protestant but just plain christian yes, i can define it how God showed me to understand that concept of family. If it’s a bad thread a mod can delete it okay? I did not mean to cause you grief due to different beliefs. 

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2 minutes ago, e v e said:

i just used trinity as an example of three beings - God, His spirit and His son, together with His extended family. Im not catholic  or evangelical. I expressed what i understand. I never said the term ‘Holy trinity’, not once. The only term i used was a lowercase trinity. Just because others are used to the term. Meaning three. The family has the two parents plus child. That’s three. 

Others are used to the term because trinity is a word with a specific meaning.  That is what I'm trying to tell you.  It's not a term you can just use in relation to God separate from the Holy Trinity, lowercase or otherwise.  You can't just say - oh, any 3 people is a trinity because in that case - ANYTHING where there is 3 is trinity... trinity = Destiny's Child, trinity = Musketeers... etc. etc.

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2 minutes ago, e v e said:

since i’m not catholic or protestant but just plain christian yes, i can define it how God showed me to understand that concept of family. If it’s a bad thread a mod can delete it okay? I did not mean to cause you grief due to different beliefs. 

You're not causing me or anybody any grief.  I'm trying to explain to you why trinity is not equal to family. 

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