Church has issued a statement on Covid-19


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19 hours ago, Vort said:

So you think Carb is a lying drama queen? I assume you do not think that, but I don't understand what else your post could mean.

Yes, he is.  But he's only 3/4 right.

I'm NOT a drama queen.  I'm a drama KING, thank you very much.  He's so sexist.

And I am a liar.  I have refused to tell my wife she's been overweight for the last 10 years.  He's so racist.

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2 minutes ago, Scott said:

People did it for chicken pox and the measles.  And it worked.  It's called herd immunity.  And it seems we may be closer than we think.  They have preliminary findings that people who have had (I can't remember which) either the cold or the flu have certain types of T cells that also provide protections against COVID.  That is why so many people are asymptomatic.  They actually test positive.  But they already have stuff in their systems to keep it at bay.

I may have misunderstood the details.  But it was something like that.

Edited by Carborendum
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35 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

People did it for chicken pox and the measles. 

Yes, they did.  Once you had those diseases you mention though you were immune from them for the rest of your life.

With any known coronavirus, this is not the case.  Immunity is only short term, if at all, depending on the coronavirus.

 

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38 minutes ago, Scott said:

Yes, they did.  Once you had those diseases you mention though you were immune from them for the rest of your life.

With any known coronavirus, this is not the case.  Immunity is only short term, if at all, depending on the coronavirus.

"short term" is a relative term.  Several years is still sufficient to create herd immunity and reduce overall death rates.

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4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, he is.  But he's only 3/4 right.

I'm NOT a drama queen.  I'm a drama KING, thank you very much.  He's so sexist.

And I am a liar.  I have refused to tell my wife she's been overweight for the last 10 years.  He's so racist.

 Thanks for understanding and joking right back. I owe you a Pepsi. 

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5 hours ago, Scott said:

I'm just going to ask.  Why do you think it is a good idea to intentionally spread COVID-19?

What are you talking about? I never said any such thing.

Please answer my question.

Edited by Vort
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2 hours ago, Vort said:
7 hours ago, Scott said:

I'm just going to ask.  Why do you think it is a good idea to intentionally spread COVID-19? 

 

What are you talking about? I never said any such thing.

Please answer my question.

???

Because he point blank asked this question

10 hours ago, Scott said:

You don't think trying to get and spread COVID-19 on purpose is dumb?

And you replied

8 hours ago, Vort said:

No. Why do you?

Which says...you do not think trying to get COVID-19 on purpose is dumb...

And you don't think spreading COVID-19 on purpose is dumb.

In fact, it's right there on top of your response...I'm not sure what other conclusion you would be indicating from your answer.

If you meant something else, perhaps elaborate or explain your response a little better as it appeared you were saying one thing, but your last response indicates you may have meant something else.

I suppose you could be saying it's not dumb, but it's also not a good idea...so something in between??

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In my own part...I think it depends on one's point of view.  I have a daughter (who is incredibly conservative, I'd say she may be farther to the right than most here) who probably does not think that the virus is that big of a deal.  She has no qualms about going out and participating in daily life and other things.  I don't think she sees it as a big deal.  I would not put it past her to consider coming and visiting us even if she had the disease or not...regardless of how susceptible we may be. 

I'm not sure if she would go to such a thing or not, but her reasoning would probably be that (at least for her age group) the risk of injury or death from the disease does not seem all that high for her.  In fact, the percentage rates to her may seem that she would sooner be killed driving a car than dying from COVID-19. 

On the otherhand, she probably doesn't think about anyone who COULD be high risk (including me and her mother possibly) and that her infection, if she would get around others, could cause harm to them.

So, for her (and I love her greatly, don't think otherwise.  I'm not so sure I agree with her ideas about the Virus and Pandemic, but she IS one of my brightest children, incredibly smart, and an incredibly accomplished woman) I wouldn't put it past her to think of such a thing.  The quicker people get it the quicker the herd immunity is reached and the fear of getting it or restricting things because of that fear is removed.

On the otherhand, you have one of my sons who is incredibly strong on his stay at home and isolation items (his wife and daughter are both working in the medical field though I'm not sure how much that plays into it).  It's funny when we have both him and my daughter in a discussion (maybe not so funny) as they completely disagree on the approach to the virus.  My son feels that people should all stay at home and not go anywhere or do anything while the pandemic is going on.  He is quick to point out how some in the medical field are being overworked in some areas (though in other areas that do not deal with hospitalizations or other areas have been hit hard and people have even been laid off at times), that the carelessness in the US is causing many problems.  If you listen to him, you might get the idea that a zombie apocalypse is striking our nation, and if we go out we are all going to turn into zombies.  He obviously would think this is extremely stupid for anyone to do.  (Interestingly enough, my son is actually ALSO conservative and republican).

I think he would think it was incredibly foolish of them.

On my part, I don't agree with the ideas of the party and I think it may be far more dangerous than many who would do such a thing anticipate or understand.  However, at this point with how things are going in the US I am almost at the point I've given up hope of the US doing anything like other nations to try to preserve as many lives as possible.  They've made the choice of the economy before lives.  At least right now (during the summer months) it appears to be less lethal than it was earlier.  I expect that may change when fall comes around.  At this point, we may be in for the ride until herd immunity is finally reached (if it can be reached, if not, there are some other rather large ramifications ahead).  If I'm lucky I've already had it and did not have it severely enough to really be on the table for testing (or what they'd call mild symptoms).  If I haven't had it, or it is cacheable again...at this point it may be inevitable since I live in the US (and apparently with travel restrictions and the US's choices, I'm not able to do my annual research either...which does not help with my employment...though I don't think it's in any danger....yet) so, hopefully I don't die from it. 

At this point I think the best option may be to let people do what they want, until they endanger or force others to participate (and I anticipate once schools start up, even though I am mostly a research professor, I do teach a class or two, that I'll be forced to engage with students inside with a classroom setting, putting me at risk regardless, which I don't really think should be something one is forced to do).

I personally wouldn't promote such a party.  I AM in favor of those who do things like this, and if they purposefully spread it to older and more at risk populations who then die from the disease, of charging those people who spread it on purpose of manslaughter...but that is probably seen as an extreme on these forums. 

However, if they stick to their homes and don't spread it to others on purpose...let them be free to do it.  I don't expect them to do that though, I expect they will try to spread it openly to others and if they really get bad off, go to the hospital (and the medical experts will still help them despite the new patient purposefully getting themselves in that position...medical personel are obligated to help).

Other nations seem to be taking the US's position seriously, banning travel from the US.  I understand Canada and Mexico are taking steps at this point as well. 

 

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23 hours ago, Scott said:

Yes, they did.  Once you had those diseases you mention though you were immune from them for the rest of your life.

With any known coronavirus, this is not the case.  Immunity is only short term, if at all, depending on the coronavirus.

 

That's not entirely accurate.  The reason this coronavirus is so damaging is the strain is different enough that our bodies aren't prepared for it.  Once you get it, that is no loner the case.  
 

It is the same reasoning we use with the flu shot.  You're likely to still get the flu, but if the flu you catch is similar to any of the strains in the shot you received, it will likely not be as harsh.  

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On 7/3/2020 at 8:16 PM, Vort said:

No. Why do you?

Because it intentionally spreads a disease that causes sickness and simetimes death.

Would you intentionally go get the flu?

So why don't you think it is dumb to intentionally get and spread the virus?

Do you think this is dumb?

https://www.insider.com/ava-louise-larz-toilet-seat-licking-coronavirus-challenge-timeline-2020-3

 

 

Edited by Scott
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31 minutes ago, Scott said:

Because it intentionally spreads a disease that causes sickness and simetimes death.

Wait a minute. By definition, all diseases cause sickness, and almost all sometimes cause death. Yet we do not go to inordinate lengths to avoid catching diseases in general. We realize that diseases are an unavoidable part of life. We don't want to live our lives inside a plastic bubble, so we accept the risk inherent with living and breathing. In the very recent past, people would often expose their young children to the so-called childhood diseases to give them immunity. How is today fundamentally different from that?

What happened to "flatten the curve"? A few months ago, we were all carefully lectured to so that we would understand that catching this infection was ultimately unavoidable. The whole "flatten the curve" effort was to keep so many people from catching it at once that the hospitals would be overrun and people who needed respirators would die without them.

Right? Am I misremembering? Pretty sure I am not. And the curve has been flattened.

So whence this terror of getting sick?

Quote

Would you intentionally go get the flu?

If getting the flu were inevitable, and the alternative to getting the flu now were to sit at home as much as possible, always wear a mask whenever interacting in public, skip Church for months on end. and watch our economy go quickly to pot, then you bet I would intentionally go get the flu.

Quote

So why don't you think it is dumb to intentionally get and spread the virus?

Because it's inevitable. Remember? Inevitable. That means you're going to get it eventually. The only way to avoid that is to take outrageous precautions and seriously increase intrusive government intervention into our lives (and even that is doomed ultimately to failure).

Over the decades and centuries, men have died in battle to preserve our freedoms. If we are so pathetically cowardly that we accept the loss of our liberties and the ravaging of our economy and of society itself in hopes of living a little longer than we otherwise might, then we deserve the slavery that will result.

Quote

Yes, I think licking a toilet seat is stupid. What does that have to do with the general idea of "get sick, get over it, and increase the herd immunity so we can get back to living normally"?

Edited by Vort
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Around here, with the numbers of new cases lately, I've been hearing that the hospitals won't be able to keep up if things don't slow down soon. Maybe not even if they do. It looks more like the curve was pushed back a couple months than significantly flattened. Or maybe it was flattened, just not by nearly enough.

I am a high-risk individual. I have to physically go to my workplace, where I am not the only high-risk person. Even though officially we are required to wear masks, most don't. I've considered saying I won't come in because I am scared for my health and life and that of my father, who I live with and has more health problems than me, but I have expenses and who knows how long this will go on and how long it would take me to find another source of income? One of my high-risk co-workers has a second, public-facing job. Her expenses are higher than mine.

I can see the logic in wanting to catch the virus to get immune and get it over with. But the idea that high-risk people can and should just completely isolate themselves so everybody else doesn't have to that I am feeling (note I said feeling - I realize I may be a bit extra sensitive on this subject and thus reading in sentiments not actually there) reminds me a little of the anti-vax arguments that if we have so much faith in the vaccine, others' lack of immunization shouldn't bother us - ignoring or unaware of those who can't be vaccinated.

And as for catching the virus being inevitable, I have been following the news on the various vaccine trials and the general consensus seems to be that we'll have something by early next year; possibly this fall. Maybe that's overly optimistic, but I'm hoping these vaccines are answers to the multiple worldwide fasts this spring.

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10 hours ago, SilentOne said:

... reminds me a little of the anti-vax arguments that if we have so much faith in the vaccine, others' lack of immunization shouldn't bother us - ignoring or unaware of those who can't be vaccinated.

I, myself, was thinking about the parallels to vaccines as well. 

I think of people who "can't" get vaccines because of medical reasons.  I don't see why I'm not considered to be in a similar category with masks, considering my respiratory problems (aka medical reasons).  But some people just don't want to be consistent.

I guess I should be happy I've got a home-based business.  I don't have to deal with that so much.

Texas has re-issued a restriction on gathering sizes to 10.  And the governor is asking all people to wear masks in counties with more than 20 active cases.  Here's my county's stats.

Active cases: 960
Hospitalized: 24
Self-isolation: 936
Recovered: 1356
Deaths: 37
Total: 2353

Total County Population: 600k +

So, I'm supposed to wear a mask now.  I hope I'm not out long.

Edited by Carborendum
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12 hours ago, SilentOne said:

Around here, with the numbers of new cases lately, I've been hearing that the hospitals won't be able to keep up if things don't slow down soon. Maybe not even if they do. It looks more like the curve was pushed back a couple months than significantly flattened. Or maybe it was flattened, just not by nearly enough.

I am a high-risk individual. I have to physically go to my workplace, where I am not the only high-risk person. Even though officially we are required to wear masks, most don't. I've considered saying I won't come in because I am scared for my health and life and that of my father, who I live with and has more health problems than me, but I have expenses and who knows how long this will go on and how long it would take me to find another source of income? One of my high-risk co-workers has a second, public-facing job. Her expenses are higher than mine.

I can see the logic in wanting to catch the virus to get immune and get it over with. But the idea that high-risk people can and should just completely isolate themselves so everybody else doesn't have to that I am feeling (note I said feeling - I realize I may be a bit extra sensitive on this subject and thus reading in sentiments not actually there) reminds me a little of the anti-vax arguments that if we have so much faith in the vaccine, others' lack of immunization shouldn't bother us - ignoring or unaware of those who can't be vaccinated.

And as for catching the virus being inevitable, I have been following the news on the various vaccine trials and the general consensus seems to be that we'll have something by early next year; possibly this fall. Maybe that's overly optimistic, but I'm hoping these vaccines are answers to the multiple worldwide fasts this spring.

I'm hoping we get a vaccine sooner than later.  I have almost resigned myself that I'm going to get it the way the US is going right now...but if there is some hope of a vaccine soon, perhaps I can get a vaccine and be at least a little protected from the craziness going on around me.

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10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I, myself, was thinking about the parallels to vaccines as well. 

I think of people who "can't" get vaccines because of medical reasons.  I don't see why I'm not considered to be in a similar category with masks, considering my respiratory problems (aka medical reasons).  But some people just don't want to be consistent.

I guess I should be happy I've got a home-based business.  I don't have to deal with that so much.

Texas has re-issued a restriction on gathering sizes to 10.  And the governor is asking all people to wear masks in counties with more than 20 active cases.  Here's my county's stats.

Active cases: 960
Hospitalized: 24
Self-isolation: 936
Recovered: 1356
Deaths: 37
Total: 2353

Total County Population: 600k +

So, I'm supposed to wear a mask now.  I hope I'm not out long.

In other words, you have a 1.6% mortality rate so you have to wear a mask.  Interesting...

By the way, to enforce a mask rule, you need police to enforce it.  There are too many people not wearing masks for the police to effectively enforce anything.  Also - all mandatory mask ordinances I've seen requires masks when Social Distancing is not possible.  So, as long as you're sufficiently distanced, you can leave out the mask.

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I don't know if anyone has posted this link yet but it's really good, from both a scientific and religious perspective. It's a Q&A with an Area Seventy who happens to be over Pfizer's anti-viral department and development of a potential vaccine.

https://latterdaysaintmag.com/pfizer-head-of-anti-viral-has-good-news-on-covid-19/

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