The COVID thread

[NeuroTypical]

Tonight's presidential COVID team press conference, had a reporter asking Trump if he's seen the Tiger King, and if he's going to pardon the guy.

I'm both comforted by the indication that we're returning to normalcy, and slightly put-off about what returning to normalcy looks like in this instance.

[Guest Scott]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Remember, we're NEVER going to become a police state:

https://kdvr.com/news/man-arrested-in-front-of-daughter-at-brighton-park-for-allegedly-violating-social-distancing/

This was on the local news.  The guy who got arrested was an former police officer and as mentioned the person filming it was a former city councilman.

The officers who did the arrest are now under investigation.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Scott

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:48 AM, Carborendum said:

Remember, we're NEVER going to become a police state:

https://kdvr.com/news/man-arrested-in-front-of-daughter-at-brighton-park-for-allegedly-violating-social-distancing/

I am not surprised at all. Our enforcers have been waiting for the chance. Sad.

[NeuroTypical]

31 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

On 4/8/2020 at 7:48 AM, Carborendum said:

Remember, we're NEVER going to become a police state:

https://kdvr.com/news/man-arrested-in-front-of-daughter-at-brighton-park-for-allegedly-violating-social-distancing/

I am not surprised at all. Our enforcers have been waiting for the chance. Sad.

As Scott mentioned in the post directly preceding yours, the officer who did the arrest is now under investigation.   "Our enforcers" have apologized for the arrest, calling it an overreach.

And let's not forget he was only temporarily placed in cuffs and then released without citation.

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throwing-ball-daughter-due/story?id=70032966

So yeah, it's important to note the facts of the case, and not just jump to the assumption that we're all gonna be in a police state now and the eeeeeevul cops have just been waiting for this moment.   

Edited April 9, 2020 by NeuroTypical

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Our enforcers have been waiting for the chance. Sad.

Yep, we all polished up our jack boots two weeks ago!

[Grunt]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

And let's not forget he was only temporarily placed in cuffs and then released without citation.

 

Yeah.  He was only kidnapped for a little while. 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Yeah.  He was only kidnapped for a little while. 

Indeed, His civil rights were only violated for a little while. One can argue that the Japanese interment camps were only for a short time as well. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[NeuroTypical]

3 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Indeed, His civil rights were only violated for a little while. One to argue the Japanese interment camps were only for a short time as well. 

If you wanna equate what happened to this guy, with what happened with the Japanese internment camps, go for it.  We all now know that you're the type of guy who equates those two events.  Will keep it in mind when interacting with you in the future. 

And @mirkwood, I gotta say, you're doing a real horrible job at turning this place into a police state.  Maybe you should increase the random beatings, maybe disappear a trouble maker or two?

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

So yeah, it's important to note the facts of the case, and not just jump to the assumption that we're all gonna be in a police state now and the eeeeeevul cops have just been waiting for this moment.   

I did not say our cops, I said enforcers. I am referring to the bureaucrats that "run the show." The so called leaders of our cities and states have become empowered by this pandemic. They need to be reigned in before it is too late. The police are not being allowed to think for themselves in a lot of ways. Another reason that we should have more sheriffs that are directly selected by the people.

[NeuroTypical]

10 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Yeah.  He was only kidnapped for a little while. 

And the guy who did it is being investigated, and he got a public apology that was heard 'round the world, and he's considering legal action, which could probably get him a nice check for his trouble.

Seriously.  Seriously?

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

If you wanna equate what happened to this guy, with what happened with the Japanese internment camps, go for it.  We all now know that you're the type of guy who equates those two events.  Will keep it in mind when interacting with you in the future. 

And @mirkwood, I gotta say, you're doing a real horrible job at turning this place into a police state.  Maybe you should increase the random beatings, maybe disappear a trouble maker or two?

Any violation of the civil rights of citizens in this country are equal in my mind. Are you actually saying that the Japanese Internments and the German ones in World War 1 were justified? 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[NeuroTypical]

6 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Any violation of civil rights of citizens of this country are equal in my mind.

Yep, I now know this about you.  A cop pulling you over without cause, is, in your mind, equal to a cop kidnapping you off the street, driving you out into the woods, shooting you, hiding the body, and pinning some crime on you by falsifying evidence and lying under oath, so your family believes you were a drug dealer.

Quote

Are you actually saying that the Japanese Internments and the German ones in World War 1 were justified? 

Of course not.  Because I don't hold to the notion that "any violation of civil rights of citizens is equal".  I believe that's a very foolish notion.  I don't know enough about WW1 German internment camps to voice an opinion, but from what I've read about the US Japanese internment camps, they weren't justified, and are a black mark on the history of our nation.

But no, I don't believe they are "equal" to temporarily detaining a guy unjustly.  Especially when dude got a public apology, and might get a fat check if he decides to push it.

It just seems, well, foolish to believe they are equal.

Edited April 9, 2020 by NeuroTypical

[Still_Small_Voice]

The cost of food has been going up in our area recently.  There are no more or very few sale prices now.  I think food costs for us have increased about 10 to 20%.

[Vort]

30 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Yep, we all polished up our jack boots two weeks ago!

I knew it. Probably attended mandatory training on how not to leave marks.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep, I now know this about you.  A cop pulling you over without cause, is, in your mind, equal to a cop kidnapping you off the street, driving you out into the woods, shooting you, hiding the body, and pinning some crime on you by falsifying evidence and lying under oath, so your family believes you were a drug dealer.

Dude, you have issues. I said nothing like that. If you don't agree, that is fine, but don't put words into my mouth. You are making asinine assumptions about what I believe. I have only been pulled over a few times in my life and I have NEVER thought anything like what you said. When I have gotten pulled over, I knew immediately what I was doing wrong to justify being pulled over. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[Grunt]

33 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

And the guy who did it is being investigated, and he got a public apology that was heard 'round the world, and he's considering legal action, which could probably get him a nice check for his trouble.

Seriously.  Seriously?

Yeah, "seriously".   You act like this is an isolated incident and the guy should be thankful an environment exists where he can be deprived of liberty at will.

[NeuroTypical]

10 minutes ago, Grunt said:

You act like this is an isolated incident and the guy should be thankful an environment exists where he can be deprived of liberty at will.

"Isolated incident" - I guess it depends on what you mean by that.  How few incidents like this, per 1000 population, per year, can happen in order to be considered "isolated"?  1 or 2?  .3?  I wonder if we could arrive at some common definition, we could look at how often these incidents happen, and see if they're isolated or not.  I honestly don't know.  I bet it's worse in big cities with liberal governments.

 

"Deprived of liberty at will".  Again, some full context is appropriate.  Negative consequences for the cops that acted out of line.  A public apology from the people in charge.  Possibly a court case that'll get him compensation.

With all of those things, you're dang right the guy should be thankful he lives in America, with it's system of laws, checks and balances, juries.  It's hardly perfect, but it's a dang sight better than other countries.

Grunt, you always struck me as a guy who knew this already.  

 

 

29 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

40 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep, I now know this about you.  A cop pulling you over without cause, is, in your mind, equal to a cop kidnapping you off the street, driving you out into the woods, shooting you, hiding the body, and pinning some crime on you by falsifying evidence and lying under oath, so your family believes you were a drug dealer.

Dude, you have issues. I said nothing like that. If you don't agree, that is fine, but don't put words into my mouth. You are making asinine assumptions about what I believe. I have only been pulled over a few times in my life and I have NEVER thought anything like what you said. When I have gotten pulled over, I knew immediately what I was doing wrong to justify being pulled over. 

I'm responding to your direct statement.   "Any violation of civil rights of citizens of this country are equal in my mind."  Perhaps you'd like to walk it back or modify it or something?  The word "Any" means something there.  Abusing power and slapping someone in cuffs unjustly = violation of civil rights.  My extreme hypothetical = violation of civil rights. 

Glad to hear you're reacting strongly - could you clarify what you mean by "Any violation of civil rights of citizens of this country are equal in my mind."?   I assume you believe murder and all that other stuff is a violation, right?

[Grunt]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

"Isolated incident" - I guess it depends on what you mean by that.  How few incidents like this, per 1000 population, per year, can happen in order to be considered "isolated"?  1 or 2?  .3?  I wonder if we could arrive at some common definition, we could look at how often these incidents happen, and see if they're isolated or not.  I honestly don't know.  I bet it's worse in big cities with liberal governments.

 

"Deprived of liberty at will".  Again, some full context is appropriate.  Negative consequences for the cops that acted out of line.  A public apology from the people in charge.  Possibly a court case that'll get him compensation.

With all of those things, you're dang right the guy should be thankful he lives in America, with it's system of laws, checks and balances, juries.  It's hardly perfect, but it's a dang sight better than other countries.

Grunt, you always struck me as a guy who knew this already.  

 

I guess we just have different opinions on what is acceptable.

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

If you wanna equate what happened to this guy, with what happened with the Japanese internment camps, go for it.  We all now know that you're the type of guy who equates those two events.  Will keep it in mind when interacting with you in the future. 

And @mirkwood, I gotta say, you're doing a real horrible job at turning this place into a police state.  Maybe you should increase the random beatings, maybe disappear a trouble maker or two?

I keep trying with @MormonGator but he is like a bad penny.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

21 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

could you clarify what you mean by "Any violation of civil rights of citizens of this country are equal in my mind."?   

No, I don't think I need to clarify my statement more than I already have, especially because you demand it. Take care.

[Colirio]

19 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

"A public apology from the people in charge.  Possibly a court case that'll get him compensation.

Good to know that you are the type of person who is willing to accept the wrongs of others as long as they say they’re sorry and give you money afterwards. 
 

 

For the record, I also am glad to live in the land of the free where my rights can be legally protected from the encroachments of others and redress of grievances can be pursued. 
 

[estradling75]

15 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I guess we just have different opinions on what is acceptable.

What makes you think anyone here thinks it is 'acceptable?'

It happened.. and all the consequences that are coming as a result are showing that it is not considered acceptable..  What more do you want?  The cop to be lynched?  Sorry but that is not the rule of law and liberty I signed up for.  The leaders have rebuked the action and the man who was offended can have redress (if he wants it)  That seems like an utterly acceptable response to an unacceptable action   

[Grunt]

4 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

What makes you think anyone here thinks it is 'acceptable?'

It happened.. and all the consequences that are coming as a result are showing that it is not considered acceptable..  What more do you want?  The cop to be lynched?  Sorry but that is not the rule of law and liberty I signed up for.  The leaders have rebuked the action and the man who was offended can have redress (if he wants it)  That seems like an utterly acceptable response to an unacceptable action   

I want him in jail pending trial.  

[Guest MormonGator]

22 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I want him in jail pending trial.  

He should have the right to post bail, right? Just like you or I have if we get arrested. 

[Grunt]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

He should have the right to post bail, right? Just like you or I have if we get arrested. 

Depends on the severity.  It's up to the judge.  Personally, I would be far more severe with someone in whom the public placed the trust that was violated than your average citizen.