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6 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Military and police analogies aren't accurate, in my opinion,    War isn't a group coming together and deciding that we should have rules and then hiring people to come together and enforce them.  It's the exact absence of that.  The rules are different.   The recognition of rights is historically different, though that's changing.  The tacit support of subjects and the belief that this makes them targetable is different. etc, etc.

You obviously know more than I do about the military, I'm not arguing that. 

But I do have more "confidence" (for lack of a better word, and that word doesn't really come close) that police would protect my rights better than the National Guard (and yes, again, my terminology is probably wrong. Again, I know nothing about the military). I think a cop would be more likely to disobey an immoral order than a solider would. No, not an insult to you or your brothers/sisters in the military. Hopefully I don't know what I'm talking about. 

Edited by MormonGator

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@Grunt-while we're "talking" about it, what exactly is the difference between the National Guard who clean up after hurricanes and stuff and someone like you? Are you in the National Guard?

Like I've said before, asking in ignorance. I know literally nothing about the military. 

Edited by MormonGator

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You obviously know more than I do about the military, I'm not arguing that. 

But I do have more "confidence" (for lack of a better word, and that word doesn't really come close) that police would protect my rights better than the National Guard (and yes, again, my terminology is probably wrong. Again, I know nothing about the military) would. I think a cop would be more likely to disobey an immoral order than a solider would. No, not an insult to you or your brothers/sisters in the military. Hopefully I don't know what I'm talking about. 

I wouldn't necessarily disagree.  I think it would be equally individual, dependent on the leader.  On the one had, too, National Guard Soldiers are mostly part time.  They're more in touch with their civilian side than military.  

Stepping back from my role, I think it would really depend on how they were called up.  Many are very patriotic and if there were a "civil war" it would be interesting to see where they fell.  They tend to have closer ties to community than other branches.  That usually isn't how it happens, though.  It's usually the frog in the pot scenario, where the temperature gets turned up slowly and suddenly you look around and see how bad things are.  

The number of leaders that take the Constitution seriously might surprise you.  That said, Soldiers aren't cops.  Different training.  Different ROE.  I think the biggest fear would be the violation of your rights without them even knowing they were doing it.  Who knows.  It's speculation.  I've never seen them deployed in a manner that would really give them the opportunity to test it out,.

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

@Grunt-while we're "talking" about it, what exactly is the difference between the National Guard who clean up after hurricanes and stuff and someone like you? Like I've said before, asking in ignorance. I know literally nothing about the military. 

No difference, only I'm full time.  Well, no difference except that isn't my job.  National Guard does domestic and foreign operations.  Most Soldiers are part time until units get activated for both.  Then there are full-time units like Civil Support Teams, Counter-drug units, Recruiting & Retention, Unit Support Personnel, etc. 

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4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

wouldn't necessarily disagree.  I think it would be equally individual, dependent on the leader.  On the one had, too, National Guard Soldiers are mostly part time.  They're more in touch with their civilian side than military.  

Stepping back from my role, I think it would really depend on how they were called up.  Many are very patriotic and if there were a "civil war" it would be interesting to see where they fell.  They tend to have closer ties to community than other branches.  That usually isn't how it happens, though.  It's usually the frog in the pot scenario, where the temperature gets turned up slowly and suddenly you look around and see how bad things are.  

The number of leaders that take the Constitution seriously might surprise you.  That said, Soldiers aren't cops.  Different training.  Different ROE.  I think the biggest fear would be the violation of your rights without them even knowing they were doing it.  Who knows.  It's speculation.  I've never seen them deployed in a manner that would really give them the opportunity to test it out,.

Thanks for not taking it personal-I wasn't very clear in the post (my own fault, I was struggling for words) and I wasn't trying to insult you or the military. So thanks for not taking it that way. 

Edited by MormonGator

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Just now, Grunt said:

No difference, only I'm full time.  Well, no difference except that isn't my job.  National Guard does domestic and foreign operations.  Most Soldiers are part time until units get activated for both.  Then there are full-time units like Civil Support Teams, Counter-drug units, Recruiting & Retention, Unit Support Personnel, etc. 

Thanks. 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Thanks for not taking it personal-I wasn't very clear in the post (my own fault, I was struggling for words) and it's not an insult. So thanks for not taking it that way! 

I've served with them.  I know what you mean.  An 18 year old private isn't the same thing as a 22 year old trained police officer.

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8 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Then there are full-time units like Civil Support Teams, Counter-drug units, Recruiting & Retention, Unit Support Personnel, etc

Is there National Guard gator disposal Team? There certainly seems to be a need for one in parts of Florida. 

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1 minute ago, Grunt said:

I've served with them.  I know what you mean.  An 18 year old private isn't the same thing as a 22 year old trained police officer.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Exactly. 

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5 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Is there National Guard gator disposal Team? There certainly seems to be a need for one in parts of Florida. 

It's always, always, always stupid tourists and stupid snowbirds who hassle and bother alligators. Eventually, the alligator will charge or snap at a stupid tourist/snowbird and the alligator will have to be moved or tragically, put down. The locals-like me-love alligators and have this amazing ability to appreciate what they do with our ecosystem and to our environment.

Here's a wild idea-if you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone. You don't bother them, they don't bother you.  Yet, tourists and snowbirds are too stupid to understand that. 

it's a major pet peeve of mine @askandanswer. You've hit a nerve. 

Edited by MormonGator

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Someone who lives up north during the summer but moves down here during the winter to avoid the snow up north. 

The Rio Grande Valley has those too. My grandpa calls them "Winter Texans".

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29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

@Grunt-while we're "talking" about it, what exactly is the difference between the National Guard who clean up after hurricanes and stuff and someone like you? Are you in the National Guard?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard

There are two National Guard services, affiliated with the US Army and the US Air Force. They constitute a military reserve, organized by state. They respond to federal orders and also respond to the governor of the state they're in.

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Just now, Vort said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard

There are two National Guard services, affiliated with the US Army and the US Air Force. They constitute a military reserve, organized by state. They respond to federal orders and also respond to the governor of the state they're in.

Thanks bud. 

I've had friends who served in the military-two of my close friends actually-but they don't really talk about it. It doesn't define them.

My grandfather also fought in WWII (he earned a purple heart after being shot in the Battle of the Bulge) but he never talked about to his own children, much less his grandchildren, which is totally understandable. 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Thanks bud.

I'm not military, and my dad never talked about his military service. So I know next to nothing about the military, except what my son and his father-in-law (an Air Force colonel) have told me.

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2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

We had you War of 1812 veterans to show us the value of quiet dignity.  

I was talking about the English Civil War in your case. 


(just playing JAG. Nothing but love)

Edited by MormonGator

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