Is Satan trying to thwart the Bi-centennial celebration of the first Vision?


Xavier
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I have been thinking a lot about the signs given of these latter-days. Signs of the second coming and I can't help but think that everything happening right now is so coincidental to hat is about to happen in just a few weeks, these year being the bicentennial anniversary of God's appearance to Joseph Smith introducing His only beloved Son Jesus Christ, whom he sent.

Could this pandemic be an attempt by Satan to destruct the world of such significant event, such as the very restoration of His true and living Church?

Will this usher the last few events where the world will be so affected economically that the sign of the beast will be instituted and no-one will be able to trade or buy without this "sign"?

Should we be concerned?

How are you preparing should this be the case?

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1 hour ago, Xavier said:

I have been thinking a lot about the signs given of these latter-days. Signs of the second coming and I can't help but think that everything happening right now is so coincidental to hat is about to happen in just a few weeks, these year being the bicentennial anniversary of God's appearance to Joseph Smith introducing His only beloved Son Jesus Christ, whom he sent.

Could this pandemic be an attempt by Satan to destruct the world of such significant event, such as the very restoration of His true and living Church?

Will this usher the last few events where the world will be so affected economically that the sign of the beast will be instituted and no-one will be able to trade or buy without this "sign"?

Should we be concerned?

How are you preparing should this be the case?

How many times have we been given the lessons on food storage, provident living, etc etc.

If we’ve been following the words of the prophets we would already be prepared.

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8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

How many times have we been given the lessons on food storage, provident living, etc etc

Sure, and that's understandable, however, this is more than just having an adequate food storage. 

 

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Guest Scott

Satan has no body and has no creation powers.  He can't create or build physical things.  I don't think he can create viruses.

Satan doesn't for example, create or build a knife and tempt someone to take it and hurt someone.  Maybe he would if he could, but that's not how things work.

Creating a virus is a lot harder than creating something like a knife.  I don't think Satan can create things like that.

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1 hour ago, Scott said:

Satan has no body and has no creation powers.  He can't create or build physical things.  I don't think he can create viruses.

Satan doesn't for example, create or build a knife and tempt someone to take it and hurt someone.  Maybe he would if he could, but that's not how things work.

Creating a virus is a lot harder than creating something like a knife.  I don't think Satan can create things like that.

"So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with asore bboils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."

Seems like scriptures potentially present a different theory.

Remember, the creation of this earth was accomplished by individuals without a body.

Edited by Anddenex
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2 hours ago, Scott said:

Satan has no body and has no creation powers.  He can't create or build physical things.  I don't think he can create viruses.

Satan doesn't for example, create or build a knife and tempt someone to take it and hurt someone.  Maybe he would if he could, but that's not how things work.

Creating a virus is a lot harder than creating something like a knife.  I don't think Satan can create things like that.

Satan doesnt create but he tempts. Tempts a killer to use a gun, tempt an adulterer to cheat.

Probably influenced Job to do something to cause the boils as well as influence poor food hygiene in China that caused this virus.

Edited by priesthoodpower
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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

"So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with asore bboils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."

Seems like scriptures potentially present a different theory.

Remember, the creation of this earth was accomplished by individuals without a body.

He also had to get permission which probably meant that God had to help in the affliction.  Chapter heading:

Satan obtains permission from the Lord to afflict Job physically—Job is smitten with boils—Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar come to comfort him.

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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

"So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with asore bboils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."

Seems like scriptures potentially present a different theory.

Remember, the creation of this earth was accomplished by individuals without a body.

He has FAR more power than we probably give him credit for.  He has power over the waters, or so it was believed by many in Joseph Smith's time.  The Bible relates that he had the power to replicate some of the miracles of Moses including snakes, blood, and a few others.

There is ALSO a war that is still going on.  Many think that the War in Heaven ended when 1/3 of the host of heaven were cast out of the presence of our Father, but as we can see in Genesis, the Adversary is still here on this world.  He has been given some authority and power to control things.  He has not been given the power to directly take over bodies or flat out destroy them, but he can influence things to harm or eventually cause death.  This is an ongoing war and he has the worst of intentions for all of those who opposed him previously.

I would not be surprised if many of the evils such as viruses and sicknesses were created by him to plague and torment mankind.  He hates us and wishes ill.  He can only do so because he is allowed to do so (and a prime example is Job, where he was allowed to do such things, or the story of Moses and Pharoah's sorcerers), but I think he's allowed greater variance than some think in that arena as well.  He, as we are, is still a child of our Father and as such still has some gifts that are granted unto him until the final day of judgment.

In this, there is an ongoing war and he is the enemy.  I feel he uses all the weapons at his disposal to harm or hurt.  His first goal is to make us miserable and if he can do so by making us fall from grace, he will.  Then, if he can kill us before we can repent or gain grace again, he would probably try if allowed.  If he can kill those who will refuse to turn and who will stay faithful...he probably would try if allowed.  He is an enemy and as such, he is going to do all in his power to destroy us one way or the other.

Fortunately, we have the Lord.  The Atonement ensures that even if the adversary harms us, even if for a little while, by causing us to leave this mortal coil or to suffer in this life, that eventually he will be crushed.  Unless WE CHOOSE to allow him to make such misery permanent, he can have no power to do so.  He can cause us temporary misery, but by accepting the sacrifice and atonement of Jesus Christ and repenting and allowing the Lord's power to guide us and direct us, we can triumph over the adversary.  He may be able to harm us and hurt us, but through Jesus Christ we know he will be destroyed in the end and cast into outer darkness.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

How many times have we been given the lessons on food storage, provident living, etc etc.

If we’ve been following the words of the prophets we would already be prepared.

It's funny.  All of a sudden I'm no longer the kooky guy in the office.  People are now asking me for advice.

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13 hours ago, Xavier said:

Sure, and that's understandable, however, this is more than just having an adequate food storage. 

 

Yes.  It means provident living, self-sustenance, being of sound mind and body, listening to the Spirit, fulfilling your covenants (especially temple covenants) etc. etc.  Things the Church has been teaching us all our lives.  It's good for anything - getting laid off from your job, getting cancer, getting the corona virus, zombie apocalypse...

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11 hours ago, Scott said:

He also had to get permission which probably meant that God had to help in the affliction.  Chapter heading:

Satan obtains permission from the Lord to afflict Job physically—Job is smitten with boils—Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar come to comfort him.

Which then begs the question, how do you know the adversary can not or has not received permission with this either? The point being Satan was given permission and did create boils.

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10 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

He has FAR more power than we probably give him credit for.  He has power over the waters, or so it was believed by many in Joseph Smith's time.  The Bible relates that he had the power to replicate some of the miracles of Moses including snakes, blood, and a few others.

There is ALSO a war that is still going on.  Many think that the War in Heaven ended when 1/3 of the host of heaven were cast out of the presence of our Father, but as we can see in Genesis, the Adversary is still here on this world.  He has been given some authority and power to control things.  He has not been given the power to directly take over bodies or flat out destroy them, but he can influence things to harm or eventually cause death.  This is an ongoing war and he has the worst of intentions for all of those who opposed him previously.

I would not be surprised if many of the evils such as viruses and sicknesses were created by him to plague and torment mankind.  He hates us and wishes ill.  He can only do so because he is allowed to do so (and a prime example is Job, where he was allowed to do such things, or the story of Moses and Pharoah's sorcerers), but I think he's allowed greater variance than some think in that arena as well.  He, as we are, is still a child of our Father and as such still has some gifts that are granted unto him until the final day of judgment.

In this, there is an ongoing war and he is the enemy.  I feel he uses all the weapons at his disposal to harm or hurt.  His first goal is to make us miserable and if he can do so by making us fall from grace, he will.  Then, if he can kill us before we can repent or gain grace again, he would probably try if allowed.  If he can kill those who will refuse to turn and who will stay faithful...he probably would try if allowed.  He is an enemy and as such, he is going to do all in his power to destroy us one way or the other.

Fortunately, we have the Lord.  The Atonement ensures that even if the adversary harms us, even if for a little while, by causing us to leave this mortal coil or to suffer in this life, that eventually he will be crushed.  Unless WE CHOOSE to allow him to make such misery permanent, he can have no power to do so.  He can cause us temporary misery, but by accepting the sacrifice and atonement of Jesus Christ and repenting and allowing the Lord's power to guide us and direct us, we can triumph over the adversary.  He may be able to harm us and hurt us, but through Jesus Christ we know he will be destroyed in the end and cast into outer darkness.

Well said.

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3 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Which then begs the question, how do you know the adversary can not or has not received permission with this either? The point being Satan was given permission and did create boils.

I believe that the book of Job gives insight into how God works with men. As Elder McConkie said, "Job is for people who like the book of Job."

I do not believe that God and Satan casually chat, as the highly formulaic retelling in Job might suggest. I don't believe that Satan goes before God to request permission to afflict people, and that God then grants that permission. I do not believe that Satan creates life or manipulates non-human life to afflict mankind. Insofar as the book of Job suggests otherwise, it's clear that the book of Job is speaking figuratively or in allusion or as a fable.

Job may well have been an actual man, and the trials that he faced in the book might well reflect actual trials faced by a real Job (and perhaps by the rest of us). But to use that to draw the conclusion that Satan bargains with God to afflict mankind is as absurd as using the Biblical account of the sun standing still during Joshua's defeat of the Amorites to draw the conclusion that the sun circles the earth.

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11 minutes ago, Vort said:

I believe that the book of Job gives insight into how God works with men. As Elder McConkie said, "Job is for people who like the book of Job."

I do not believe that God and Satan casually chat, as the highly formulaic retelling in Job might suggest. I don't believe that Satan goes before God to request permission to afflict people, and that God then grants that permission. I do not believe that Satan creates life or manipulates non-human life to afflict mankind. Insofar as the book of Job suggests otherwise, it's clear that the book of Job is speaking figuratively or in allusion or as a fable.

Job may well have been an actual man, and the trials that he faced in the book might well reflect actual trials faced by a real Job (and perhaps by the rest of us). But to use that to draw the conclusion that Satan bargains with God to afflict mankind is as absurd as using the Biblical account of the sun standing still during Joshua's defeat of the Amorites to draw the conclusion that the sun circles the earth.

I understand this is your belief and opinion regarding these things. I am OK with this.

I am not sure I understand correctly the words of Elder McConkie as I don't have the quote in context. It appears to me the same thing would be said by an Atheist regarding the Bible, or any other scripture, "The Bible is for people who like the Bible." Without more context I am unable to see the purpose of the quote.

Edited by Anddenex
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2 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I am not sure I understand correctly the words of Elder McConkie as I don't have the quote in context.

Follow the link provided to read it in context. It's vintage McConkie dry humor. Here is the paragraph:

In the Old Testament, Genesis is the book of books—a divine account whose worth cannot be measured. Exodus and Deuteronomy are also of surpassing worth. Numbers, Joshua, Judges, the Samuels, the Kings, and the Chronicles are all essential history, interwoven with deeds of faith and wonder that form a background for an understanding of the Christian faith. Leviticus has no special application to us and, except for a few passages, need not give us permanent concern. Ruth and Esther are lovely stories that are part of our heritage. The Psalms contain marvelous poetry, and the portions that are messianic and that speak of the last days and the Second Coming are of great import. Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Lamentations are interesting books; Job is for people who like the book of Job; and the Song of Solomon is biblical trash—it is not inspired writing. Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, and Jonah are the least of the prophets; and all the rest of the prophets—Isaiah above them all—each in his place and order set forth the doctrinal and prophetic word that must be studied in depth.

Edited by Vort
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On 3/12/2020 at 6:53 PM, Xavier said:

Sure, and that's understandable, however, this is more than just having an adequate food storage. 

 

90% of what people need to do for a situation like this is basic common sense, from maintaining basic cleanliness standards to keeping a supply of necessities on-hand. 

As far as COVID-19 goes, given the way that China tries to keep things covered up there's no way of being sure what its true origins are. Could be an animal disease that jumped to humans. Could be a lab-produced disease that got loose and infected a nearby market. We may never know for sure.

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On 3/12/2020 at 5:52 PM, JohnsonJones said:

He has power over the waters, or so it was believed by many in Joseph Smith's time.  

I grew up on the water and always respected this statement as my uncle and father taught me this from D&C. However after many decades of doing water sports and activities I believe this is just something that JS and the people of that time believed. They were not water people. 

I understand that while in the water you are at the mercy of the elements and dont have total control over your body and risk injury and death. Anything that brings your life closer to an end satan rejoices in. Driving a car, hiking up a mountain, riding a bike are similar risks. 

When I am on the water with the sun, wind, clouds and/or blue sky around me I feel closer to God. Its therapuetic, its amazing!

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11 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

I grew up on the water and always respected this statement as my uncle and father taught me this from D&C. However after many decades of doing water sports and activities I believe this is just something that JS and the people of that time believed. They were not water people. 

 

I would not want to argue that the following was not a revelation from God to Joseph

4  Nevertheless, I suffered it that ye might bear record; behold, there are many dangers upon the waters, and more especially hereafter;
5  For I, the Lord, have decreed in mine anger many destructions upon the waters; yea, and especially upon these waters.
6  Nevertheless, all flesh is in mine hand, and he that is faithful among you shall not perish by the waters.

14  Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.
15  Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 61:4 - 15)

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Rather than viewing this as evidence of Satan's involvement I see it more as evidence of God choosing to be less involved. I can see Him saying "I have saved this world so many times often without anyone even realizing it. But you are due a dose of reality of how quickly things can go south if I withhold my grace." To me this is a shot across the bow. A warning that at some point God will stop holding back the tide and things far worse than this virus will be allowed to truly send the world into chaos. 

As a side note I have always viewed the earth as a sentient being, as having a spirit. And it has an immune system that vigorously tries to eliminate things it views as a virus, aka the wicked. So when it gets a fever, runny nose, shivers and other symptoms we call natural disasters the world is simply trying to kill off the virus. So I guess my point is "Don't be a virus!"

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On 3/12/2020 at 10:36 PM, Anddenex said:

Remember, the creation of this earth was accomplished by individuals without a body.

Do pre-mortal spirits (who are waiting to be born on Earth) have spirit bodies in the image
of the body of their Heavenly Parents?  In Doctrine and Covenants 129:8, does the devil
have a spirit hand but not a spirit body?

Jonah

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11 minutes ago, Jonah said:

Do pre-mortal spirits (who are waiting to be born on Earth) have spirit bodies in the image
of the body of their Heavenly Parents?  In Doctrine and Covenants 129:8, does the devil
have a spirit hand but not a spirit body?

Jonah

"But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. "

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