Sacrament at home prep


mikbone
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10 hours ago, Traveler said:

A little question - How many priesthood holders that administered the sacrament in their homes wore a white shirt and tie?

 

The Traveler

Yes. It is the sacrament, the principle Sunday best still applies. My children at first were like, "Yes, no church clothes today"! To which we as parents said, "It is the sacrament, we will where our Sunday clothes. After sacrament, you can where what you want."

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2 hours ago, mrmarket said:

Is a white shirt or tie required? Either at home or at church?

Do with this what you will. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/handbook-2-administering-the-church/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng#title_number25

Quote

Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.

 

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Thank you for your responses.  I am likely the senior member on the forum (over 70) and somewhat old school.  I realize that a lot is tradition and upbringing.  I am also a 5th generation member so tradition runs in my family.   My wife's parents were converts (after they were married).   From my youth we were raised to wake up, make your bed and get dressed before leaving your bedroom.  We were not allowed to breakfast in our pj's or with our bed unmade or a messy bedroom.  Also if you missed the scheduled breakfast - you fasted tel lunch.  Everyone was expected to eat breakfast at the same time - together.

Boys wore a white shirt and tie on Sunday.  Back then there was no block.  Priesthood was usually at 7:00 am  Sunday School at 10:00 am and Sacrament meeting at 4:00 pm.  We wore our Sunday attire for the entire day.  Our Sunday attire was our most expensive and since we purchased our own clothes we did not engage in activities that would create extra wear and tear.  When boys were ordained to the priesthood it was expected that we wear a white shirt and tie when involved in any priesthood ordinances or official activities (like ward teaching or blessings).  There was no official handbook of instructions.  It was what everybody did.  I remember being in the army and was given two pocket sized books by my bishop.  One book was the Book of Mormon.  The other was a priesthood instruction book with information for servicemen.  The instruction book recommended that if not in uniform a priesthood holder should wear a white shirt and tie for blessing the sacrament etc.  But I was taught that these things were not required but as a manner of respect - both to the L-rd and the the priesthood.

As a side note - no one ever wore denim in the chapel and girls were expected to always wear a dress in the chapel - even if one was not attending a meeting.  If one was not dressed properly for being in the chapel they would route themselves to avoid the chapel - which was considered a sacred place.

In many ways I am glad that standards have been eased a bit as to allow for a more welcoming atmosphere at church but at the same time I miss the exceptional feeling of reverence and sacredness that I experienced  in my youth.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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22 minutes ago, Traveler said:

We were not allowed to breakfast in our pj's or with our bed unmade or a messy bedroom.  Also if you missed the scheduled breakfast - you fasted tel lunch.

I enjoyed this entire concept. My kids are going to love me when we talk next and I share this new rule.

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36 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Did you get voted outside? Trying out the whole "remote familying" thing?

I probably will get voted outside, virus or not if I do the "fast tel lunch" thing.

We do have a detached garage that I'm prepared to live in once I get COVID19, I can do remote familying from there.
I picture my kids bringing me trays of food and sliding them under the door and scurrying back home.

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On Sunday morning I spent about 15 minutes straightening up the living room.

  • I picked up the items laying around the room.
  • vacuumed the floor.
  • cleared off the TV stand below the TV on the wall. I even removed the Nintendo and stereo so that the sacrament was not wrestling for space on the surface.
  • Our family found the whole process of church at home to be very peaceful and allowed us time to think about what we were doing. 

Two thumbs up for the entire process.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

59BDB44F-62FF-44AD-986F-E7CC8A55D56D.thumb.jpeg.e7d371371a0269276a088220e3a72fd7.jpeg

I have a coworker who is with the Alred group. He has two wives and 15 kids. We have been joking with him about how is ganna need to split his family into two separate houses.

Edited by Fether
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12 hours ago, Traveler said:

Thank you for your responses.  I am likely the senior member on the forum (over 70) and somewhat old school.  I realize that a lot is tradition and upbringing.  I am also a 5th generation member so tradition runs in my family.   My wife's parents were converts (after they were married).   From my youth we were raised to wake up, make your bed and get dressed before leaving your bedroom.  We were not allowed to breakfast in our pj's or with our bed unmade or a messy bedroom.  Also if you missed the scheduled breakfast - you fasted tel lunch.  Everyone was expected to eat breakfast at the same time - together.

Boys wore a white shirt and tie on Sunday.  Back then there was no block.  Priesthood was usually at 7:00 am  Sunday School at 10:00 am and Sacrament meeting at 4:00 pm.  We wore our Sunday attire for the entire day.  Our Sunday attire was our most expensive and since we purchased our own clothes we did not engage in activities that would create extra wear and tear.  When boys were ordained to the priesthood it was expected that we wear a white shirt and tie when involved in any priesthood ordinances or official activities (like ward teaching or blessings).  There was no official handbook of instructions.  It was what everybody did.  I remember being in the army and was given two pocket sized books by my bishop.  One book was the Book of Mormon.  The other was a priesthood instruction book with information for servicemen.  The instruction book recommended that if not in uniform a priesthood holder should wear a white shirt and tie for blessing the sacrament etc.  But I was taught that these things were not required but as a manner of respect - both to the L-rd and the the priesthood.

As a side note - no one ever wore denim in the chapel and girls were expected to always wear a dress in the chapel - even if one was not attending a meeting.  If one was not dressed properly for being in the chapel they would route themselves to avoid the chapel - which was considered a sacred place.

In many ways I am glad that standards have been eased a bit as to allow for a more welcoming atmosphere at church but at the same time I miss the exceptional feeling of reverence and sacredness that I experienced  in my youth.

 

The Traveler

This guy hit the nail on the head with this quote from a 1973 lecture that Nibley gave at BYU, later reprinted in the collection, What is Zion? Joseph Smith Lecture Series 1972-73.

…the worst sinners, according to Jesus, are not the harlots and publicans, but the religious leaders with their insistence on proper dress and grooming, their careful observance of all the rules, their precious concern for status-symbols, their strict legality, their pious patriotism. Longhairs, beards, and necklaces, LSD and rock, Big Sur and Woodstock, come and go, but Babylon is always there: rich, respectable, immovable… We want to be vindicated in our position and to know that the world is on our side as we all join in a chorus of righteous denunciation; the haircut becomes the test of virtue in a world where Satan deceives and rules by appearances.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

This guy hit the nail on the head with this quote from a 1973 lecture that Nibley gave at BYU, later reprinted in the collection, What is Zion? Joseph Smith Lecture Series 1972-73.

…the worst sinners, according to Jesus, are not the harlots and publicans, but the religious leaders with their insistence on proper dress and grooming, their careful observance of all the rules, their precious concern for status-symbols, their strict legality, their pious patriotism. Longhairs, beards, and necklaces, LSD and rock, Big Sur and Woodstock, come and go, but Babylon is always there: rich, respectable, immovable… We want to be vindicated in our position and to know that the world is on our side as we all join in a chorus of righteous denunciation; the haircut becomes the test of virtue in a world where Satan deceives and rules by appearances.

You are utterly misapprehending both Nibley's intended meaning and the Lord's actions. It's not concern for proper dress that the Lord finds abhorrent. It's hypocrisy. The same Pharisees who were übercareful about appropriate dress were leaving their parents to starve while they kept their money under the pretense of "corban". The same scribes who prided themselves on their extensive knowledge of scripture made sure that everyone knew of their fasts so that they would be widely admired for their piety.

If you think there is something wrong with adhering to and advocating an appropriate mode of dress when exercising Priesthood authority, then you don't know what you're talking about. If you think the people who avoid R-rated movies and wear a white shirt to Church are the hypocrites because they care about trying to obey, then you need to open your eyes to what's going on around you.

Edited by Vort
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13 minutes ago, Vort said:

You are utterly misapprehending both Nibley's intended meaning and the Lord's actions. It's not concern for proper dress that the Lord finds abhorrent. It's hypocrisy. The same Pharisees who were übercareful about appropriate dress were leaving their parents to starve while they kept their money under the pretense of "corban". The same scribes who prided themselves on their extensive knowledge of scripture made sure that everyone knew of their fasts so that they would be widely admired for their piety.

If you think there is something wrong with adhering to and advocating an appropriate mode of dress when exercising Priesthood authority, then you don't know what you're talking about. If you think the people who avoid R-rated movies and wear a white shirt to Church are the hypocrites because they care about trying to obey, then you need to open your eyes to what's going on around you.

What is going on around me is some guy polling who is wearing white shirts and ties in the home for sacrament. Sounds like virtue signaling to me along the same lines nibley speaks of. Next are we going to poll to find out how many hymns were sung, if we knelt instead of sit to pray, stayed in church clothes all day, who gave a talk? Give me a break.

 

Edited by mrmarket
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7 hours ago, mrmarket said:

What is going on around me is some guy polling who is wearing white shirts and ties in the home for sacrament. Sounds like virtue signaling to me along the same lines nibley speaks of. Next are we going to poll to find out how many hymns were sung, if we knelt instead of sit to pray, stayed in church clothes all day, who gave a talk? Give me a break.

 

What this sounds like to me is you getting triggered because several of us were talking about wearing Sunday clothes.  So... what is it?  You did not wear Sunday clothes and our talk made you feel diminished that you didn't so you put the blame on us?  Or are you one of those "deacons shouldn't have to wear white shirts and women should be able to wear pants" progressive character?

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27 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

What this sounds like to me is you getting triggered because several of us were talking about wearing Sunday clothes.  So... what is it?  You did not wear Sunday clothes and our talk made you feel diminished that you didn't so you put the blame on us?  Or are you one of those "deacons shouldn't have to wear white shirts and women should be able to wear pants" progressive character?

Sounds more like you are being triggered being called out on pharisaic nonsense. Yea I totally feel diminished by someone’s talk.. you’re killing me here. As for the charter school like dress code. Yea I think people should be able to wear whatever they want. If it was so important the chapel couldn’t be desecrated by a pants wearing woman or a  deacon wearing a nice colored shirt then we need to place the uniform cops at the doors and never let them in. The church even says it isn’t mandatory so why do we spend so much time treating the situation otherwise? Because that is how we Mormons visually display to our peers that we are at least as or more righteous than they are. Hi. This context we could replace righteous with perhaps unquestioning obedience even if the leadership states alternatives.
 

it is all about image. Why do we have to list our religious resumes like Eagle Scout, young women’s award, mission, temple, sealing x type callings? And don’t tell me people don’t do that . To tell everyone we checked the boxes is why. It isn’t any real measure of someone’s righteousness but it is the yardstick we tend to use and many of our leaders use that same metric as well.

Edited by mrmarket
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2 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

Sounds more like you are being triggered being called out on pharisaic nonsense. Yea I totally feel diminished by someone’s talk.. you’re killing me here. As for the charter school like dress code. Yea I think people should be able to wear whatever they want. If it was so important the chapel couldn’t be desecrated by a pants wearing woman or a  deacon wearing a nice colored shirt then we need to place the uniform cops at the doors and never let them in. The church even says it isn’t mandatory so why do we spend so much time treating the situation otherwise? Because that is how we Mormons visually display to our peers that we are at least as or more righteous than they are. Hi. This context we could replace righteous with perhaps unquestioning obedience even if the leadership states alternatives.
 

it is all about image. Why do we have to list our religious resumes like Eagle Scout, young women’s award, mission, temple, sealing x type callings? And don’t tell me people don’t do that . To tell everyone we checked the boxes is why. It isn’t any real measure of someone’s righteousness but it is the yardstick we tend to use and many of our leaders use that same metric as well.

Yep.  REEEEEing all day long.

MMPgZsd.png

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9 hours ago, mrmarket said:

Next are we going to poll to find out how many hymns were sung, if we knelt instead of sit to pray, stayed in church clothes all day, who gave a talk? 

Anddddd. Don't like the poll(s), feel free to ignore them and move on.

9 hours ago, mrmarket said:

 Give me a break.

To go size. Enjoy.
kit_kat_small_bars_main_855c3f062356b2431fc6c64c0c163f42.social_share_1200x630_center.thumb.jpg.1ed2ea3c5ee375de279894a1e9188716.jpg

 

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9 hours ago, mrmarket said:

What is going on around me is some guy polling who is wearing white shirts and ties in the home for sacrament. Sounds like virtue signaling to me along the same lines nibley speaks of.

 


Yes. A person who dresses in their best clothing to administer and partake of the sacrament couldn’t possibly be trying to show the Lord their reverence for His great sacrifice for them. 
 

Nope. It’s all virtue signaling. In the privacy of his home. Where nobody except his family is gathered. 
 

🤔
 

Sorta reminds me of someone who gets upset about what others wear when partaking of the sacrament in the privacy of their own home and then judgmentally declares them to be pharisaical without being able to look at the intentions of their heart. 

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4 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

It is virtue signaling when you post it here publicly. It ceases to remain private once posted and polled about on a forum. 

Psst.
"Look at me, I won't participate in that poll"
"Look at me, I'll criticize you if you do participate"
"Look at me, I'm more virtuous than the rest of you who participated"

Y to the awn...

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Moderator reminder - be nice people.  Don't make us ration posts and set curfews and refuse to test you for the virus unless you're nice.  Or something.

Anyway, polling about white shirts and ties might sound weird, but consider: For most of us priesthood holders, we haven't actually prepared/blessed/served the sacrament in a long time.  2 decades for me, 3 decades for my ministering brother, when we took it to our neighbor's house last Sunday.  

Reading through the guidelines, we're reminded about stuff we forgot long, long ago.  It's not like a blessing or a prayer that can happen anywhere, at any time, the ordinance of blessing the sacrament, is included in a sacrament service, which, depending on how you read the new handbook, seems to require reverence and appropriate attire.  

It's a valid thing to wonder about.  

Edited by NeuroTypical
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