Vort

Jesus did not socially distance himself from the lepers.

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8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If someone said something so cold blooded about your grandmother or sick friend, I'd be mortified. That, and even if they took every step possible, they are still at a higher risk than you or I.

Let me get this straight, MG. To say that people need to own responsibility to protect themselves rather than relying on the actions of strangers to do so is "cold-blooded".

Do I have that right?

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

We're Christians. The least we can do is "love one another" and take their health into account.

Nice to see such Christlike love modeled in a way I can understand.

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Just now, Vort said:

Do I have that right?

No. 

Tell you what. I'm not going to answer. I'll let you figure it out yourself why someone could get to that conclusion. 

1 minute ago, Vort said:

Nice to see such Christlike love modeled in a way I can understand.

Take notes. 

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3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Tell you what. I'm not going to answer. I'll let you figure it out yourself why someone could get to that conclusion. 

Thanks anyway, but I'm not into mindreading. If others can't or won't read what I write, I consider such willful misinterpretation to be their problem, not mine.

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

@Midwest LDS told me that 10 pounds of M&M's do the trick. So if I die of diabetes or morbid obesity before Corona gets me, blame him. 

Make sure those are red M and M's, and you have to eat them by the light of a full moon, and to the sounds of drums to get the full effect. Trust me this is one weird trick doctors don't want you to know! /s😉

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3 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Make sure those are red M and M's, and you have to eat them by the light of a full moon, and to the sounds of drums to get the full effect. Trust me this is one weird trick doctors don't want you to know! /s😉

Given how many horrible MLM schemes you hawk on your Facebook, I can't tell if you are joking or not. 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Given how many horrible MLM schemes you hawk on your Facebook, I can't tell if you are joking or not. 

Hey it's your loss l. I've already made 10 billion dollars selling magic beans, and all you have to do is sign up your friends for a product they totally need. Also, my brother's, friend's, college roommate is now his own boss, and you could be too if you were just willing to alienate everyone in your life. 

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8 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Make sure those are red M and M's, and you have to eat them by the light of a full moon, and to the sounds of drums to get the full effect. Trust me this is one weird trick doctors don't want you to know! /s😉

I know all about the green ones! 😎

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8 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Hey it's your loss l. I've already made 10 billion dollars selling magic beans, and all you have to do is sign up your friends for a product they totally need. Also, my brother's, friend's, college roommate is now his own boss, and you could be too if you were just willing to alienate everyone in your life. 

And you lost 75 pounds right? 

Melissa had one of these frauds-er, I'm sorry-"opportunities" pitched to her once.  The lady said "You can make six figures." Melissa asked "Do you make six figures?". Things got very chilly. 

Edited by MormonGator

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

And you lost 75 pounds right? 

Melissa had one of these frauds-er, I'm sorry-"opportunities" pitched to her once.  The lady said "You can make six figures." Melissa asked "Do you make six figures?". Things got very chilly. 

Hey props to her, I would have loved to see that reaction.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

I believe this is a naive, flawed, even dangerous way of considering the mortal ministry of Jesus. Jesus was not magic. He went among the lepers, not because he had magical resistance powers to leprosy, but because he always did what was right. And ministering to lepers was the right thing to do. He risked getting leprosy just like anyone else would have, but it didn't stop him from doing what was right. That's the point. And I believe the same applies to us.

How does this apply to COVID-19? I do not believe we should quit socializing with people because we see them as filthy, horrid biobags of infectious agents.

Jesus ins’t magical.  He is knowledgeable.  

He went among the Lepers because He is full of Charity.  And to teach us and give us an example.  

But He had no fear of any man or disease. He created the Earth 

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Some thoughts:

Just because you are not afraid of something does not mean it will no kill you.

Most people will recover from the cronia virus without any lasting effects - but it is almost certain that they will pass it on to someone that it will kill.

Places around the world that have done little or nothing about the cronia virus - have suffered less than those that took early action?

How much deadlier is the cronia virus than the common cold and flu? a) the same  b) twice  c)  10 times  d) 100 times

Toilet paper is the best protection against the cronia virus?  Especially if one smokes or vapes?

My ward has a large population of over 70 year old members - from the warnings, my guess is that about half will not survive if they are infected - that is about the same as will likely die anyway over the next 10 to 15 years.

I think we should always look at the bright side - this could likely solve our homeless problem and the shortage of Social Security funds for the next generation.

As for myself - I would rather die than to attempt living in fear.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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8 hours ago, Vort said:

Can you imagine Jesus practicing social distancing?

Jesus didn't practice social distancing, but he certainly did command it of others, especially in the Old Testament.  

The book of Numbers goes into this.  Numbers 5:

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:

3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

Leviticus also goes a lot into this, especially in chapter 13 (this is only a excerpt of two verses; there is a lot more if you read the entire chapter):

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/lev/13?lang=eng

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.
 

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No need ponder what the answer might be to this question - we can read what Jesus actually did with at least one leper:

2  And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3  And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean.  And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

(New Testament | Matthew 8:2 - 3)

However, I was also thinking of the same passage of scripture as @Scott from Leviticus requiring lepers to live alone without the camp. Social distancing from lepers was the law and I like to think that Jesus obeyed the law, or at least did not reward the breaking of the law, as the leper seems to have done. Jesus certainly encouraged us to do respect the law and to encourage someone to do what you do not do yourself is often perceived as less than ideal behaviour. However, I also like to think that Jesus displayed genuine compassion and concern for lepers and non-lepers and did what He could to help, according to their faith. On the face of it, this appears to be a situation where Jesus could respect the law and ignore the leper, or not respect the law and help the leper and He chose to help. This situation almost seems to be an example of Jesus not respecting the law. That seems to me to be a difficult conclusion to accept so there must be more to this than meets the eye. or some other relevant information that we are not aware of.  

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6 hours ago, MormonGator said:

The heartwarming stories are definitely a bright spot during this challenging time.   Here's my contribution!

https://katu.com/news/local/chick-fil-a-delivers-350-free-meals-to-hospital-workers-at-peacehealth-southwest?jwsource=cl&fbclid=IwAR1MiciZK_yVLxWTvGR1o4q3Qq2lW-wfhT0Xs3XDkqCLFBmzMS0KCFukyCk

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For a statistical perspective on the impact of social distancing, here's a good overview of what impact it can have on an epidemic (I'll note that the link discusses theoretical concepts and doesn't fully attempt to apply it to the current pandemic).  https://staff.math.su.se/hoehle/blog/2020/03/16/flatteningthecurve.html

I've included one of the images used in the blog post below that illustrates the impact social distancing can have on an epidemic. The first dotted line represents when social distancing measures are first put in place, and the second dotted line is when they are lifted.

I prefer this illustration over some of the more common illustrations because it has the increased peak to the right of the end of social distancing, which is important.  We need to expect a spike in infections when social distancing ends.  (you may also notice that, in this graphic, the total areas of the purple and green curves are about equal--the bulk of the blog post shows why this is a flawed assumption and that social distancing can actually reduce the total size of the epidemic).

To address @Vort's question more directly, can I envision Jesus socially distancing himself from an infected population?  Yes, I think I can.  What I don't envision is Jesus socially isolating himself from certain populations (unless he were the infected person).

I think it's important to recognize the difference between distance and isolation, as well as the difference between population controls and individual controls. Social distancing does not require that we stop all social activity.  It means limiting contact in certain ways.  For instance, maintaining a distance of two meters from other people is an act of social distancing.  That may require adjustments to how we operate our meetings (business and church, etc), but you can be two meters away from a person and still be very socially engaged.

Consider also that, under the current recommendations for social distancing, there are guidelines for caregiving. Caregivers are advised to wear masks, wash hands often, etc. Social distancing does not preclude caregiving. It does not preclude ministering to the needs of others. It means limiting our ministering to the most essential needs, and taking precautions to slow down the spread of disease.

So can I envision Jesus socially distancing himself from the sick?  Yes. I most certainly can.  What I can't envision him doing is entirely isolating himself from the sick.  I think leprosy isn't a great comparison to our contemporary disease, so to make it a little more comparable, consider this: I can imagine Jesus directly caring for a person with tuberculosis, but donning a mask to do so, and carefully washing his hands and clothing afterward before moving on to minister to others. I can imagine Jesus limiting the contact others have with that individual infected with tuberculosis.  I can even imagine Jesus quarantining (isolating) himself for a period of time if he had a concern that he had contracted some viral disease and did not want to spread that to others in his community. 

So I see @Vort's point, and agree that we must not give up the best parts of what makes us human.  We must not shut ourselves in and focus only on our individual needs.  Quite the contrary, we need to be more focused than ever on the health, welfare, and needs of our families, neighbors, and communities. There will be times that we will be required to minister to a person's needs by taking the role of a caregiver, and engaging directly with them. There will also be times, however, that the best thing we can do is keep our (physical) distance. What I would give as advice is to try our best to minister to others in the ways they need and want to be ministered to, not necessarily in the ways the we are comfortable ministering.

 

FLATTENTHECURVE-1.png

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On Sunday my family and I stayed home... we followed the council give to hold sacrament in our home and socially distanced ourselves.

Also on Sunday I ministered to those in need.  We had a single sister who desired the sacrament.  I also had a young father ask for help blessing his sick little girl. In both cases I was in someone else's home and performed  the requested (and authorized) ordinances.  I also did my best to follow all the recommended medical safety precautions.  I think that is how Jesus would have handled it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Jesus practices the ultimate in social distancing when He sends people to hell.

Just sayin’. ;) 

Guess I can't really argue with that. But I'd suggest that it's the hell-bound who are practicing social distancing.

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2 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I'm socially distancing myself at work by refusing to respond to calls for service.

Kidding.

"You have the right to remain silent. Here, I'm going to toss you these handcuffs and you put them on, okay?"

Sounds efficient.

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Could we go so far as to say that Jesus practiced a form of social distancing with non-Jews by restricting His ministery primarily to the Jewish people?

24  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

(New Testament | Matthew 15:24)

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