Not to put too fine a point on it, but CNN sucks

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I've gotten it from several various sites my university has had access to

Does your university have a Gender Studies program?

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

?

When did CNN report this?

Yellow Journalism from other sources:

Trump touts unproven coronavirus treatment hours after reports that a man in Arizona died trying to use it
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-touts-unproven-coronavirus-treatment-hours-after-it-killed-man-2020-3

Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure:  Woman whose husband died after ingesting chloroquine warns the public not to 'believe anything that the president says'
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-woman-husband-died-chloroquine-warns-not-to-trust-trump-2020-3?fbclid=IwAR0vB1kEI6BhsD33RZCMae21tm-gkUaFpMsKKV-r7IkRTqaJccBCYvZ5ZAc

 

And yellow journalism from the other side:

Actor Daniel Dae Kim Says Anti-Malaria Drug Hydroxychloroquine Helped Him Recover from Coronavirus
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/03/22/actor-daniel-dae-kim-says-anti-malaria-drug-hydroxychloroquine-helped-him-recover-from-coronavirus/

Actor Daniel Dae Kim credits 'secret weapon' for COVID-19 recovery
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/22/daniel-dae-kim-credits-hydroxychloroquine-coronavi/

Coronavirus patient says hydroxychloroquine saved his life
https://www.foxnews.com/media/coronavirus-patient-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-his-life

 

Here's a more responsible news coverage:

Man dies after ingesting chloroquine in an attempt to prevent coronavirus
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by anatess2

[Guest Scott]

48 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nigeria-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2MG2dPFK5-k_mwFzIgsezyz-JVmdKxw-1k630CO5_2y4Fx-ZzB9SR4M8w

 

Quote

CNN reports fake news that 2 people died because of the CoVID-19 vaccine and made sure the headline stated - "CoVID-19 vaccine causes death to 2 after Trump endorses it".  

 

That's not a vaccine.

Chloroquine (and Mefloquine) are pills that you take for malaria.  I have a supply of them at my house.  They are not vaccines.

The thing is though, they are toxic if taken in large amounts.  A lethal dose is 300 mg for a small child and 30-50 mg per kg for an adult (which is why I hide them well).

While in the US, you need a perscription for Choloroquine, in most tropical countries (I assume in the Phillipines as well), they are available over the counter withouth one.

Here is the tweet in question:

So while the overdose was not Trump's fault, it was reckless of his to dispense medical advice like that.   It should be left to the CDC, doctors, and medical field for that.  Further the French are only studing Choloroquine as a possible treatment for Coronavirus, it isn't ready yet (though it would be great if this pans out).  Also, since the medication is available over the counter in much of the world, such an announcement can cause a shortage because people will start hording it, even if they aren't sick.

On the other hand, it is reckless to self medicate with drugs like Chloriquine and to take the wrong dosage, so most of the blame should be placed on the people taking those drugs.

Self medicating with Chloroquine is dangerous to everyone for other reasons.   As far as side effects go, Chloroquine is much safer than Mefloquine.  The thing is though, some malarial viruses have built up a resistance to Chloroquine.   If you take too much of the medication, it is toxic.   If you don't take enough, the "surviving" viruses can build up a resistance.   That's the reason why you can't use Chloriquine in much of the world; it has built up a resistance.  The last thing we need is a drug resistant strain of coronavirus.  So for both of these reasons, people shouldn't be self medicating.  

PS, a little bit ago, I defended Trump from people placing the blame on Trump for the recent Arizona poisonings.   Some were blaming Trump for the following:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/us/chloroquine-poisoning-coronavirus.html?fbclid=IwAR3IOVYz_MKBQJUSML0co9sFedI8Pbkb_AzL01rs6BX0t-IJoVaWZFAr0Yk

Here is what I wrote about that (I said that Trump shares zero responsibility for this one. Both of these were what I wrote.

This was 100% the Arizona couple's fault.   0% was Trump's fault.

That said though, Trump's tweet was still reckless and that type of information should be given out by the medical field.

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Scott
Added the original quote claiming that Choloroquine is a vaccine

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, Scott said:

That said though, Trump's tweet was still reckless and that type of information should be given out by the medical field.

 

That's a bad interpretation of his tweet.  His tweet was not "dispensing medical advice".  He was sending a tweet to the FDA to move fast on testing the meds!   He has been on PRESS CONFERENCES for 2-3 hours EVERYDAY addressing the corona virus issue.  If the PRESS would do their jobs - AND I WOULD ADD HANNITY AND INGRAM ON THAT LIST WITH CNN, mis-communication would not be happening in this manner!

Edited March 25, 2020 by anatess2

[Guest Scott]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

That's a bad interpretation of his tweet.  His tweet was not "dispensing medical advice".  He was sending a tweet to the FDA!

He tagged the FDA.   The tweet was made to the general public.   It is on his twitter page, which is followed by 75.1 million people and read by millions more.

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, Scott said:

He tagged the FDA.   The tweet was made to the general public.   It is on his twitter page, which is followed by 75.1 million people and read by millions more.

THE MESSAGE WAS VERY CLEAR.  MOVE FAST.  You think that means - "People go run to your nearest drugstore and buy those drugs and drink it now"?  I guess you don't know how twitter works.  Messages in 120 characters.  You learn to interpret what people are trying to say.

This tweet followed his 3-hour Press Conference (2 hour town hall and 1 hour Press Q&A) on the matter!

Edited March 25, 2020 by anatess2

[Guest Scott]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

THE MESSAGE WAS VERY CLEAR.  MOVE FAST.  You think that means - "People go run to your nearest drugstore and buy those drugs and drink it now"?

I said that his post was reckless, not that it is his fault that people are stupid.   People self medicating are even more reckless.

PS, Choroquine is a pill, not a drink (though the Arizona couple did dissolve fish tank tablets into water). 

[Vort]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

I said that his post was reckless, not that it is his fault that people are stupid.   People self medicating are even more reckless.

PS, Choroquine is a pill, not a drink (though the Arizona couple did dissolve fish tank tablets into water). 

If Trump posted saying that a new brain surgery technique was promising and that the AMA should promote its development, and then several people die by self-trepanation, would you say that was reckless of him?

At what point do we allow people to kill themselves through sheer stupidity without trying to blame someone else?

[anatess2]

26 minutes ago, Scott said:

I said that his post was reckless, not that it is his fault that people are stupid.   People self medicating are even more reckless.

PS, Choroquine is a pill, not a drink (though the Arizona couple did dissolve fish tank tablets into water). 

How is it reckless?

And note that you didn't say CNN is reckless.

[Guest Scott]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

If Trump posted saying that a new brain surgery technique was promising and that the AMA should promote its development, and then several people die by self-trepanation, would you say that was reckless of him?

That's not a good comparison.   Chloroquine is readily available to the masses.   Brain surgery is not.

Even if the drug was 100% safe, I can promise you that people seeing the tweet are going to start hording that stuff since the announcement, which is a completely different problem.  

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

At what point do we allow people to kill themselves through sheer stupidity without trying to blame someone else?

The Arizona couple mentioned is 100% to blame.

People self medicating are to blame.

Trump didn't force anyone to OD on the drug.   There is no way that even in Nigeria, the medication didn't have instructions for proper dosage.

I just said that Trump's post was reckless.   Why?   Because people are stupid.  

Trump (and all other politicians) should just leave the announcements about breakthroughs to the medical field.   And the media should stop sensationalizing everything too.

Don't get me wrong, Trump should be trying to calm others and bringing hope to the country.   His tweet should have just said that there is some promising reseach out there and let the CDC fill in.        What's done is done though.  It was a mistake.   It can't be taken back.   The media should move on as well.

People should however (even though it should be obvious) be reminded not to self medicate with medications.   

[Vort]

Can't really disagree with any of that. I suppose my beef is that Trump is a magnet for all sorts of picky and mean-spirited criticism from the media and its proxies that e.g. Obama never had to deal with. It's the openly, unashamedly partisan nature of the criticism that scorches my buns.

[anatess2]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

That's not a good comparison.   Chloroquine is readily available to the masses.   Brain surgery is not.

Even if the drug was 100% safe, I can promise you that people seeing the tweet are going to start hording that stuff since the announcement, which is a completely different problem.  

The Arizona couple mentioned is 100% to blame.

People self medicating are to blame.

Trump didn't force anyone to OD on the drug.   There is no way that even in Nigeria, the medication didn't have instructions for proper dosage.

I just said that Trump's post was reckless.   Why?   Because people are stupid.  

Trump (and all other politicians) should just leave the announcements about breakthroughs to the medical field.   And the media should stop sensationalizing everything too.

Don't get me wrong, Trump should be trying to calm others and bringing hope to the country.   His tweet should have just said that there is some promising reseach out there and let the CDC fill in.        What's done is done though.  It was a mistake.   It can't be taken back.   The media should move on as well.

People should however (even though it should be obvious) be reminded not to self medicate with medications.   

Okay.  I agree with this.

The CDC has been giving updates since DECEMBER.  The press never gave it attention.  Trump tweeting is the only way information is getting out.  The media will not move on.  They have an agenda.  They need to be burned to the ground.

[Guest Scott]

22 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

How is it reckless?

(EDIT:   I see that you already had another post before I pushed enter, so maybe ignore this one).

Exact quote:

Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrodial Agents) be put to use IMMEDIATELY!  PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, AND GOD BLESS EVERYONE!

He says that it should be put to use immediately (even though it is a study and the results aren't in).  Right now they are looking less promising.     He says that people are dying and to move fast (in most of the world, you don't need a doctor's note to get the meds).

Such an announcement is probably going to cause hording of the drug by healthy people who may or may not needed, causing a shortage.

How is this not reckless?

Quote

And note that you didn't say CNN is reckless.

All of the media is being reckless by causing too much panic.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Scott

[Guest Scott]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

It's the openly, unashamedly partisan nature of the criticism that scorches my buns.

Vort, I can't say how strongly I agree with this.

If there is a time partisanship is needed, this is it.  I can't believe how much hate is going on right now, and it goes way beyond politics.

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, Scott said:

Exact quote:

Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrodial Agents) be put to use IMMEDIATELY!  PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, AND GOD BLESS EVERYONE!

He says that it should be put to use immediately (even though it is a study and the results aren't in).  Right now they are looking less promising.     He says that people are dying and to move fast (in most of the world, you don't need a doctor's note to get the meds).  

Why is the President of the USA responsible for the rest of the world?  YES, it should be used immediately.  That's why he says for the FDA and CDC to MOVE FAST.  CONTEXT is a skill you learn on Twitter.  Public Pressure makes government move.  Public awareness makes the public exert Public Pressure.  This was a useful tweet.

 

Quote

Such an announcement is probably going to cause hording of the drug by healthy people who may or may not needed, causing a shortage.

How is this not reckless?

All of the media is being reckless by causing too much panic.

They are ALREADY IN SHORTAGE.  GOVERNMENTS WORLDWIDE (Philippines included) have been using them outside of trials for 2 weeks.  There is not enough evidence of cure yet with the formulations they are using but they are willing to give it a shot on patients with strong hearts (arrhythmia is a side effect).  This is not a new discovery.  They've been testing this thing since January!  American Pharma is ready to ramp up production WHENEVER FDA AND CDC COMPLETE THEIR BLIND STUDIES.  That's why Trump tweeted that thing!  To get FDA and CDC to move fast and blow out red tape.

Edited March 25, 2020 by anatess2

[Guest Scott]

PS, let's shift gears with this conversation if anyone is interested.  

Here are the current supposed stats of cases and deaths so far:

https://google.org/crisisresponse/covid19-map

Why are the death rates all over the place?  Some could be because of faulty reporting by governments; this is true.  Some of it is because of the age of the population in each country.  Some of it is beacuse of superior or inferior healthcare.   Still that can't explain the wildly differing death rates.

Why is the death rate in Italy, Spain, and France so high, while in Germany, Swizerland, Austria, Australia, and Brazil it is very low?  The differences in death rates aren't just a little different, but very different.

Edit, this topic is best suited to the other thread.   I'll move it there.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Scott
moving to other thread

[anatess2]

Just now, Scott said:

PS, let's shift gears with this conversation if anyone is interested.

Here are the current supposed stats of cases and deaths so far:

https://google.org/crisisresponse/covid19-map

Why are the death rates all over the place?  Some could be because of faulty reporting by governments; this is true.  Some of it is because of the age of the population in each country.  Some of it is beacuse of superior or inferior healthcare.   Still that can't explain the wildly differing death rates.

Why is the death rate in Italy, Spain, and France so high, while in Germany, Swizerland, Austria, Australia, and Brazil it is very low?
 

At least in Italy - they are not separating people who are CoVID positive and died of an existing illness.  Therefore, if you have respiratory illness and then you test CoVID positive and then you die... you died of CoVID even if indications point that you could have died of respiratory illness without CoVID.

[Guest Scott]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

At least in Italy - they are not separating people who are CoVID positive and died of an existing illness.  Therefore, if you have respiratory illness and then you test CoVID positive and then you die... you died of CoVID even if indications point that you could have died of respiratory illness without CoVID.

OK gotcha, but I'll move this to the other thread since it is more on topic.   Let's discuss it there.   (My fault on that one). 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Scott

[JohnsonJones]

Not a doctor and my field of speciality is NOT medicine.

There are some promising lines of research going on in which treatments for COVID 19 are currently being experimented with.  Some promise HAS been shown with theory crafted ideas regarding Azrithromycin and Chloroquine.  With the current panic it should surprise no one that people leapt onto this and tried to obtain it in any fashion that they could.

Unfortunately, things meant for fish do not mean it is fit for humans.

There are other lines of research going on with treatments as well.  Some of the experimental ideas have been given the go ahead in very limited and specific instances where there is no other chance of recovery occurring to be utilized in a medical setting from what I understand, but there is not solid enough evidence to show that they are actually working lines of treatment currently (from what I know).

Thus, at this time the best they could be seen as are guesses and hopes.  Sometimes a guess and a hope is better than nothing, but who knows what else is going to work.

The best thought about treatment I've heard of at this time that probably works short term (but not long term) is blood donation (not sure of the right term).  They take the blood and anti-bodies of someone who has already had COVID 19 and recovered and then put them in another individual.  That anti-bodies then can fight off the virus for a temporary time.  The problem is that this does not build lasting immunity as the person who received the anti-bodies is not building up anti-bodies of their own (at least from what I understand about this method).  So, it helps fight off the virus, but is not a permanent solution or treatment.

[anatess2]

@Scott, here ya go.  This is EXACTLY why POTUS sent that tweet - to put public pressure on the FDA to squeeze out red tape.

New York and Nevada Governors are overriding doctors.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by anatess2

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

@Scott, here ya go.  This is EXACTLY why POTUS sent that tweet - to put public pressure on the FDA to squeeze out red tape.

New York and Nevada Governors are overriding doctors.

 

Well, the FDA did approve NY to do clinical trials on hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine, and azithromycin.  Supposedly the trials start on Teusday, so hopefully they'll see some sort of positive results.  They are also planning on the blood transfer methods to be utilized.

[Carborendum]

On 3/25/2020 at 9:48 AM, Scott said:

So while the overdose was not Trump's fault, it was reckless of his to dispense medical advice like that. 

...

This was 100% the Arizona couple's fault.   0% was Trump's fault.

Incongruous statements.

The big point you're missing is that Trump did NOT "dispense medical advice".  He was giving an update on what his administration was doing to get the FDA to open doors to further study and approval.  It was NEVER meant to say "Hey, you should go do this..."

How you can recognize that it was 100% the couple's fault, and yet still try to blame Trump?  How can you say that his update on what his administration is doing is somehow encouraging this type of behavior.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Carborendum

[Guest Scott]

14 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Incongruous statements.

The big point you're missing is that Trump did NOT "dispense medical advice".  He was giving an update on what his administration was doing to get the FDA to open doors to further study and approval.  It was NEVER meant to say "Hey, you should go do this..."

How you can recognize that it was 100% the couple's fault, and yet still try to blame Trump?  How can you say that his update on what his administration is doing is somehow encouraging this type of behavior.

Blaming someone and saying a statement is reckless are not the same thing.

What happened to the couple is 100% their own fault.  Trump was 0% to blame for this.  

The tweet Trump made has more consequences than only this couple though and I already went through this at length .   See the post I made on 3/25/2020 where I went into length of why the post was reckless and the consequences.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:06 PM, Vort said:

Then it's pandemic sloppy reporting, not (just) CNN bias.

Your analysis appears convincing, but I'm not at all ready to grant China the least amount of credibility. That corrupt communist government has proven itself an enemy to truthful discourse and a jealous guardian of information. They are as corrupt as the Soviet Union ever was, though perhaps not with all the organized crime tie-ins. But that will inevitably come.

China is hiding their real numbers.

[NeuroTypical]

Pop up ad at the CNN homepage:

 

(yes, this is a joke)