Sign in to follow this  
Vernor's Ginger Ale

Corona Just Killed My Job

Recommended Posts

I know I'm new and no one here would care much.  But I felt I had to vent somewhere...

 

I was working for one company and I got about the sweetest deal I could ask for from another company: company, clientele, co-workers, pay, benefits, commute, atmosphere, etc.  Everything I could ask for.

I had put in my notice to my old.  And that was enough that they booted me out early to make room for others they wanted to keep during a sudden downturn.  I was ok with that.  I had some reserves.  I just considered it a vacation.  I was looking forward to the new company.

Then, the HR lady called me and told me that they couldn't onboard me to the company because of social distancing protocols that the company had set up.  They figure it will be at least another month.

One month would be fine.  As I said, I have some savings.  But I had just used up much of my savings to pay for a new HVAC unit because the old one was completely broken.  If it drags out to two, then I'll be looking at bouncing checks and missing a mortgage payment, credit card payments, etc.

One benefit is that I can spend more time goofing off on the internet... 😎... But I really don't like simply not working.  I'm always busy with something.  But there's simply nothing to do.  Almost all businesses are closed around here.  And I don't have the money for it anyway.  I can't get supplies at Home Depot to do some house projects I was looking forward to doing because I have bills to pay.

I just heard that Trump signed some bill for mortgage companies to play nice.  I'm still trying to get a hold of my mortgage holder for their take on it and what that means for me.  Unfortunately, this has apparently affected a LOT of people.  And it finally hit home for me.

The positive side is that the new company still wants to hire me.  They just can't get me through the process.  I wish there were some way I could get through this.  But it looks like money (or the lack of it) will kill me sooner than any virus will.

Edited by Vernor's Ginger Ale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Vernor's Ginger Ale said:

I know I'm new and no one here would care much.  But I felt I had to vent somewhere...

 

I was working for one company and I got about the sweetest deal I could ask for from another company: company, clientele, co-workers, pay, benefits, commute, atmosphere, etc.  Everything I could ask for.

I had put in my notice to my old.  And that was enough that they booted me out early to make room for others they wanted to keep during a sudden downturn.  I was ok with that.  I had some reserves.  I just considered it a vacation.  I was looking forward to the new company.

Then, the HR lady called me and told me that they couldn't onboard me to the company because of social distancing protocols that the company had set up.  They figure it will be at least another month.

One month would be fine.  As I said, I have some savings.  But I had just used up much of my savings to pay for a new HVAC unit because the old one was completely broken.  If it drags out to two, then I'll be looking at bouncing checks and missing a mortgage payment, credit card payments, etc.

One benefit is that I can spend more time goofing off on the internet... 😎... But I really don't like simply not working.  I'm always busy with something.  But there's simply nothing to do.  Almost all businesses are closed around here.  And I don't have the money for it anyway.  I can't get supplies at Home Depot to do some house projects I was looking forward to doing because I have bills to pay.

I just heard that Trump signed some bill for mortgage companies to play nice.  I'm still trying to get a hold of my mortgage holder for their take on it and what that means for me.  Unfortunately, this has apparently affected a LOT of people.  And it finally hit home for me.

The positive side is that the new company still wants to hire me.  They just can't get me through the process.  I wish there were some way I could get through this.  But it looks like money (or the lack of it) will kill me sooner than any virus will.

Prayers for you, friend.  New or old doesn't matter here.  We're a community.

Okay... the positive side here is - you have the internet.  There are many ways to make some money to tide you over until all these things calm down.  I will give you a few ideas: 

1.)  In my State, kids are switching to a home school program for a month starting on Monday.  Not all kids are tech-savvy or self-motivated and many of them have parents that still has to go to work.  You can offer your services to mentor them at this time.

2.)  You can scrounge around your attic for anything that has value and post it everywhere - Swip-swap, Craigslist, etc. etc.  Some guy sold an old army soldier figurine for $800 this way.

Here's 20 more:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Vernor's Ginger Ale said:

Wow!  I'd never heard of that Youtube channel.  That was useful.  Thank you.

My pipe-dream is to live in a Tiny House pulled by a dually and travel between my adult kids' homes wherever they happen to decide to live.  So, I started following Creativity RV (Robin) on youtube to learn how to do so.

Her TED talk on being a digital nomad is awesome.  I'll link it down below if you are interested.  It will give you a completely different perspective on your "in-between jobs" phase.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you and I wish you and your family well through this difficult time.  My wife and I are financially stable, for now; my primary concern is less about money and more about the psychological instability of society.  If people would just go about their lives as normally as possible, there would at least be enough food and supplies for everyone.  We have about 3 months of food, but depending on how long this thing is held out, that could be insufficient.  I am confident we will be fine in the end, but I am among the crowd that believes we should have just strongly advised the elderly, weak, and health compromised to quarantine and everyone else to continue about their lives.  The long term economic and psychological effects of a prolonged quarantine could be much more detrimental - including on the death toll - than the disease itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, mrmarket said:

You should see ypur bishop. In my ward they have made mortgage and health insurance payments for people several times out of fast offerings. That is what it is for.

That is not what it is for. Your bishop should not be making house payments for anyone. What happens when you miss a house payment in the USA? NOTHING you are not kicked out. Sure the bank is breathing down your neck but that is not your bishops problem.  As Bishop my first question would be what bill did you pay that impeded with your ability to make your mortgage? Same for health insurance. If someone came to me and said they needed help with a health insurance bill I'd have the same issue. If you need help making an insurance payment you obviously can't afford that insurance and need to find a different plan.

"The bishop provides basic life-sustaining necessities. He does not provide assistance to maintain an affluent living standard."

"Members who are temporarily unable to provide for themselves may need to alter their standard of living until they are self-reliant. They should not rely on Church welfare to insure them against temporary hardship or to allow them to continue their present standard of living without interruption."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

That is not what it is for. Your bishop should not be making house payments for anyone. What happens when you miss a house payment in the USA? NOTHING you are not kicked out. Sure the bank is breathing down your neck but that is not your bishops problem.  As Bishop my first question would be what bill did you pay that impeded with your ability to make your mortgage? Same for health insurance. If someone came to me and said they needed help with a health insurance bill I'd have the same issue. If you need help making an insurance payment you obviously can't afford that insurance and need to find a different plan.

"The bishop provides basic life-sustaining necessities. He does not provide assistance to maintain an affluent living standard."

"Members who are temporarily unable to provide for themselves may need to alter their standard of living until they are self-reliant. They should not rely on Church welfare to insure them against temporary hardship or to allow them to continue their present standard of living without interruption."

 

I personally know at least a dozen people who had mortgage payments and power bills paid for by the church. Part of my profession is to help budget. This info was from my clients when determining how to survive the next recession. Also my brother who was a ward clerk in the Midwest wrote dozens of checks for the same thing. Probably not what it was meant for but it is what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mrmarket said:

I personally know at least a dozen people who had mortgage payments and power bills paid for by the church. Part of my profession is to help budget. This info was from my clients when determining how to survive the next recession. Also my brother who was a ward clerk in the Midwest wrote dozens of checks for the same thing. Probably not what it was meant for but it is what happened.

I believe that it is happening, however that is not the intended usage of those funds. Unless you are in an industry and understand how our the  financial system in the United States works I can see how easy it is for bishops to make this error (be taken advantage of), a our clergy receives no formal training so unless someone tells them how things work they might assume that this is a perfectly good usage of church funds. Every time I hear about someone getting their mortgage paid by the church my stomach turns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I believe that it is happening, however that is not the intended usage of those funds. Unless you are in an industry and understand how our the  financial system in the United States works I can see how easy it is for bishops to make this error (be taken advantage of), a our clergy receives no formal training so unless someone tells them how things work they might assume that this is a perfectly good usage of church funds. Every time I hear about someone getting their mortgage paid by the church my stomach turns.

Well if there are bishops doing that and it is against the rules probably nothing can be done to fix it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

Well if there are bishops doing that and it is against the rules probably nothing can be done to fix it. 

Financial audits are held every 6 months to review unit offerings and expenses. The Stake auditors and committee members can catch misappropriated funds and offer continual training.  The church constantly provides training*. Whether a leader can absorb and remember it all is a different story.

Unless you have a calling that involves finances, most of the training/videos are not visible to the general public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Financial audits are held every 6 months to review unit offerings and expenses. The Stake auditors and committee members can catch misappropriated funds and offer continual training.  The church constantly provides training*. Whether a leader can absorb and remember it all is a different story.

Unless you have a calling that involves finances, most of the training/videos are not visible to the general public.

I realize there are audits.

lets say they do write a check for a mortgage payment and it is against the rules. Do we go get the money back? Omega master stated there was no training so I’m at a loss as to how this gets administered without people losing lots of fast offering money. I suppose the losses are minimal and it is just a cost-effectiveness issue. Probably not worth the time to train someone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

lets say they do write a check for a mortgage payment and it is against the rules.

“The Welfare Responsibilities of the Bishop,” Basic Principles of Welfare and Self-Reliance (2009), 7–10

Quote

Question: With the economy in the state that it is currently in, we are seeing an increased number of families and members struggling to meet mortgage payments. Is it permissible for us to use funds to assist with their mortgage payments?

Response: As you undoubtedly remember, welfare assistance is usually designed to be temporary. Bishops, along with quorum and Relief Society leaders, and other specialists if needed, should help recipients design a plan to become self-reliant so they will no longer need welfare assistance.

If a payment of a mortgage in the short run will enable them to carry out their plan to become self-reliant, then payment of a mortgage could be very desirable and permissible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And, the latest handbook doesn't seem to have the "m" word anywhere in the guidelines.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/22-providing-for-temporal-needs?lang=eng#title_number2

 

I've also noticed in both the MLS and the online finance tab replacement, there's a "housing" category for fast offerings.  In my 5+ years as finance clerk, we've helped with both rent and mortgage a handful of times, both for short term urgent needs.

Edited by NeuroTypical

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

“The Welfare Responsibilities of the Bishop,” Basic Principles of Welfare and Self-Reliance (2009), 7–10

That response is for omega master I’m sure. He is the one who said it is not the intended use of the funds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

“The Welfare Responsibilities of the Bishop,” Basic Principles of Welfare and Self-Reliance (2009), 7–10

 

Paying a mortgage for someone does not solve a short term need because there is no short term disaster impending.  Ergo not an appropriate usage of fast offerings.  Your citation while also dated is also not official doctrine of the church nor best practice.

I have been a ward clerk, finance clerk and stake auditor. Training or not a simple reading of the handbook and common sense tells you this is not a good usage of church funds.

 

Someone prove me wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

 

Paying a mortgage for someone does not solve a short term need because there is no short term disaster impending.  Ergo not an appropriate usage of fast offerings.  Your citation while also dated is also not official doctrine of the church nor best practice.

I have been a ward clerk, finance clerk and stake auditor. Training or not a simple reading of the handbook and common sense tells you this is not a good usage of church funds.

 

Someone prove me wrong.

Does common sense tell you that paying someone's rent is not a good usage of church funds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Does common sense tell you that paying someone's rent is not a good usage of church funds?

The short answer is it depends. 

I can foresee a circumstance where paying someones rent MIGHT rise to the level of good usage of fast offerings. 

To be clear I am not a judge in Israel nor to I want to be. 

Questions might be asked. 

1. When did you know you weren't going to make rent?

2. Have you depleted your savings (because we should all have a savings account for this kind of thing). 

3. Have you asked for help from friends and family?

4. Have you asked for govt. assistance?

5. What bills did you pay that precluded you from paying rent?

6. Are you gainfully employed?

      a. Maybe you can't afford to live where you live?

      b. Maybe you are under employed?

     c. Have you taken a second job?

7. Do you track your monthly expenses? see question 5

8. What steps are you taking to prevent this from occurring again?

I am sure there are others but then it is for the Bishop to decide knowing that he is the steward of the funds that his ward doles out (better him than me). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I have been a ward clerk, finance clerk and stake auditor. Training or not a simple reading of the handbook and common sense tells you this is not a good usage of church funds.

Someone prove me wrong.

I've clerked for 3 different bishops, working under 2 different stake presidents, and written a small handful of checks for a small handful of mortgage payments.  Maybe 3 or 4 across 5+ years. 

So, 3 bishops and 2 stake presidents felt that it was a good usage of church funds.  I suppose you might know better than these 5 men, maybe they didn't seek the spirit the right way, or misapplied any answers they received.  So I suppose my post isn't "proving you wrong".  

But I know which way I'm betting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

The short answer is it depends.

Correct. It depends.

Quote

22.6.4.5  Fast Offerings

Each week the Church consolidates fast-offering contributions into a worldwide general fast-offering fund. Bishops then draw on this fund as needed to provide short-term shelter, medical assistance, and other life-sustaining aid.

It depends on how the Bishop, who holds the keys and is the judge (like you mentioned), decides to define short-term shelter.
Short-term "rent" shelter? Short-term "mortgage" shelter? If there is a distinction between shelters, great, what is it? If there is a policy, official doctrine, that excludes a mortgage payment, as a short-term option please provide it and lets put this debate to rest.

Perhaps it is easy to envision a flashy member who needs help paying their mortgage to maintain a lifestyle vs. a recent widow who just used the rest of her liquid funds to pay for a funeral. All the canned goods at the Bishop's store house isn't going to pay her mortgage this month.

Like @NeuroTypical, many of us have been clerks and auditors before and our findings tend to harmonize with those Bishops that have met the short-term needs of a member by paying a mortgage payment.

Edited by NeedleinA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NeedleinA said:

Correct. It depends.

It depends on how the Bishop, who holds the keys and is the judge (like you mentioned), decides to define short-term shelter.
Short-term "rent" shelter? Short-term "mortgage" shelter? If there is a distinction between shelters, great, what is it? If there is a policy, official doctrine, that excludes a mortgage payment, as a short-term option please provide it and lets put this debate to rest.
 

Let's put it to bed. it is my OPINION that paying someone mortgage is not a good usage of church funds. As I have previously stated I am not nor want to be a Bishop and have to make these very difficult decisions. I do know that missing a mortgage payment will not make you homeless. I think this defines clearly that it is not a short term shelter problem if a member fails to meet this particular financial obligation

4 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Perhaps it is easy to envision a flashy member who needs help paying their mortgage to maintain a lifestyle vs. a recent widow who just used the rest of her liquid funds to pay for a funeral. All the canned goods at the Bishop's store house isn't going to pay her mortgage this month.

Let's use your example. A recent widow who uses all of her liquid funds to pay for a funeral instead of paying her mortgage. You can't be serious with this can you? Who would be so fiscally irresponsible? The poor little old widow was a fool with her money and now you want to trust her with the Lords?

7 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Like @NeuroTypical, many of us have been clerks and auditors before and our findings tend to harmonize with those Bishops that have met the short-term needs of a member by paying a mortgage payment.

Like many here I have held those positions as previously stated.  I have seen these items paid and when "asked" offered my opinion/counsel. Sometimes taken sometimes not. Never once have I voiced an unsolicited opinion as a ward clerk or finance clerk at the end of the day the Bishop should heed his own counsel and do as the spirit dictates.

As a stake auditor I often had very frank discussions with bishops and clerks about the handling of fast offerings. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Let's use your example. A recent widow who uses all of her liquid funds to pay for a funeral instead of paying her mortgage. You can't be serious with this can you? Who would be so fiscally irresponsible? The poor little old widow was a fool with her money and now you want to trust her with the Lords?

I see this all the time and you probably also do with the "go fund me" pleas on FB for people who had a sudden death of a family member esp Dad who was the bread winner. At the going rate of about $18K to bury someone on the cheap it isnt a far stretch to say most Americans cannot cover that with any money they have much less what is in their checking/savings. 

I meet with potential clients every day and about half are out to get themselves financially rescued. Average person I see has maybe between $500-$1000 in savings and $40-50 in a 401K/IRA at best. I do my best to help them with a plan of sorts but there is nothing there to manage. Mormons/non-mormons both suck at managing money so yea I can believe the old woman now widowed who has paid her tithes every month is one mortgage payment away from homelessness. I cannot speak to all the mistakes made along the way, but I know of several many faithful members make (because I see them) make which are absolute wealth destroyers. The heathens just do other things with money which are not fiscally smart.

Does this justify using fast offerings for rent and mortgage payments? Not for me to judge, I just know it happens a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Let's use your example. A recent widow who uses all of her liquid funds to pay for a funeral instead of paying her mortgage. You can't be serious with this can you? Who would be so fiscally irresponsible? The poor little old widow was a fool with her money and now you want to trust her with the Lords?

Side note: It is interesting to see how, in our minds, "A recent widow" easily turns into "poor little old widow". We all make these mental jumps from time to time. 

Yes, my scenario comes from a similar type indecent. Anyone is welcome to insert themselves into this situation and ask, "What would you have done?". Rather, "What do you think the Spirit would have directed you to do?". About 5-6 years ago, the Bishop in a neighboring ward went from conducting meetings one week to deceased the next. He, in his mid-40s, left behind his wife and 7 kids. She was not a little old widow, simply a very recent widow. She apparently had left finances up to her husband. How all the nuts and bolts played out between her and the Stake President is between them. As an ultimate result she was given financial assistance, mortgage being part of it.

Was she a fool with her money? Was she fiscally irresponsible? I guess one could argue one way or another if they had all the facts and if they cared to. I guess one could argue that the SP was or wasn't inspired to help relieve some immediate suffering on her part through financial assistance, if they cared to. Educating her to the ways of finance, delving into her spending habits, etc., while definitely helpful at a later date, probably wasn't what she needed or was even mentally capable* of absorbing in that exact moment of financial need.

*She shares about this time in her life fairly openly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this