Health Care Solutions

[Traveler]

I thought to take a break from the cronoavirus thing, shift gears and take a look at changing how our health care is provided and paid for and make a personal suggestion.  When I was a kid I suffered several accidents.  But I remember the care I received and have observed the changes over the years.  The biggest problem to our health care system, in my mind and observation, is the rising costs of health care.  For example, our first child cost $350.  This covered the prenatal care, the delivery, 3 days in the hospital and my wife’s post-delivery care.   Our last child (5^th) cost over 20 times as much - and that was almost 40 years ago – I have no idea what the cost is today.

Even though I was a struggling student when the first child was born – I was able to cover the cost with savings.  Now days I cannot even make an appointment without proof of payment.  My research indicates that there are a number of reasons for such rapid increases in cost – I will list them below and anyone can add to that list if they wish:

#1. Malpractice costs

#2. Increases in individuals receiving care without contributing any funds for their care.

#3. Paperwork (forms) and non-medical personal required to insure procedures are regulations are followed - especially for government procedures and regulations.

#4. Increase costs in equipment and education (including education for updated procedures)

#5. Shortages in heal care professional providers.

 

It is my personal observation that our current health care for profit is failing.  Mostly for the reasons above but we could add that the more the federal government has become involved the more the problems and cost increases have been exacerbated.  The current model is broken and must be changed.  The only other option that seems to be presented is more government involvement and socialization of our health care.  I am creating this thread for open discussion to our health care.  I will begin with a suggestion.

 

I believe we have a model for a new look for our health care – I believe the model is a state (not federal) run public utility.  There is already an example and operating model in every state of our country with our public utilities in public, power (electrical and gas), water, garbage collection and disposal and sewer.  I understand there is opportunity for corruption – but putting this problem before the state mitigates the corruption at the federal level.

Just like our natural gas and electrical utilities – each state would monitor rates, profits, salaries and other costs of running our public health care utilities.  There can still be competition, even interstate competition and research.  All the elements of a free market health care system just like our other public utilities.  Note that many current public utilities operate in several states and meet all the requirements for each state.  Also states are already heavily involved in licensing our health care personals and businesses.  Already we do not and cannot have a free market health care system because of state licensing and regulations.

What are your thoughts or questions?

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

16 minutes ago, Traveler said:

What are your thoughts or questions?

I do not support public healthcare, even State administered.

I support State-sponsored safety nets for the poor and vulnerable.

I support private-sponsored healthcare pools. 

The family is a healthcare pool.  That's why in my family, parents encourage their children to become doctors or nurses or lawyers or teachers or engineers - to become a resource for the family pool.  My brother is a neurologist.  But in our family healthcare pool, he is a general practitioner that handles things as simple as circumcisions to things as complex as cancer.  My sister and several other members of the family are nurses, physical therapists, nurse practitioners, etc.  They are part of the healthcare pool.  Also, we pool our money together to provide resources for sick people.  And, because we're a family, we can reprimand members of the family who are not taking care of their health.  And that's why my family try our very best to stay a close-knit family - so we can maintain these support systems and remain manageable.  This cannot be applied to a diverse society with different cultures/ideologies/etc who don't know each other.  There's nothing that binds them together, so you have to FORCE them to bind together into a resource pool.

Edited March 23, 2020 by anatess2

[Traveler]

On 3/23/2020 at 12:04 PM, anatess2 said:

I do not support public healthcare, even State administered.

I support State-sponsored safety nets for the poor and vulnerable.

I support private-sponsored healthcare pools. 

The family is a healthcare pool.  That's why in my family, parents encourage their children to become doctors or nurses or lawyers or teachers or engineers - to become a resource for the family pool.  My brother is a neurologist.  But in our family healthcare pool, he is a general practitioner that handles things as simple as circumcisions to things as complex as cancer.  My sister and several other members of the family are nurses, physical therapists, nurse practitioners, etc.  They are part of the healthcare pool.  Also, we pool our money together to provide resources for sick people.  And, because we're a family, we can reprimand members of the family who are not taking care of their health.  And that's why my family try our very best to stay a close-knit family - so we can maintain these support systems and remain manageable.  This cannot be applied to a diverse society with different cultures/ideologies/etc who don't know each other.  There's nothing that binds them together, so you have to FORCE them to bind together into a resource pool.

Thank you for your post - you were the only one of this forum so interested.

A few question if you do not mind?  Do you believe in state run public utilities?

Do you believe in state licencing of health care professionals?

 

I find your idea concerning healthcare pools interesting but with the benefits, I see a number of problems.  It has been my observation that there are great differences in individuals and their skills.  Few healthcare pools could provide experts in all specialties.  Relying of pool doctors outside of their specific expertise sounds a little problematic to me.  What experience I have had with "out of network" doctors - is in itself enough of a problem that I would be skeptical of such pools.  In general I have seen problems with using family and friends for skills similar but outside there wheelhouse.   In addition a healthcare pool would tend towards minimal charges of expenses which would mean little or no funding for proper research and updated training in new methods and procedures.

One aspect of our current system that a public utility would provide is significant built in changes to tort reform.  Because the health care would be a public utility - lawsuits would be limited and give doctors more protection.  This could be a problem in a health care pool where a doctor extending care to family members outside of their specialty is open to malpractice.  

As a side note - Two very significant technologies has been developed from R&D of our public utilities (associated with fracking) that have allowed our country to become energy independent.  Also the current problem to our health care from the cronoavirus would be much easier to coordinate, manage and control with public utilities than with independent health care pools.

Just before I submitted this response I realized that your idea of healthcare pools could be incorporated into the idea of a specialized public utility which would of necessity require licencing and regulation from the state.  

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

13 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Thank you for your post - you were the only one of this forum so interested.

A few question if you do not mind?  Do you believe in state run public utilities?

I believe they exist.

 

Quote

Do you believe in state licencing of health care professionals?

I believe those also exist.

I also believe public school exist.

All of the above is irrelevant to the issue of Public Healthcare.  

Do you believe in State-funded Food?

Do you believe in State-funded Shelter?

Do you believe in State-funded childcare?

Do you believe in cradle-to-grave government managed system?

 

Quote

 

I find your idea concerning healthcare pools interesting but with the benefits, I see a number of problems.  It has been my observation that there are great differences in individuals and their skills.  Few healthcare pools could provide experts in all specialties.  Relying of pool doctors outside of their specific expertise sounds a little problematic to me. 

This is silly.  My neurologist brother did not treat my cancer-ridden father.  An oncologist did.  My brother, my nurse sister and my nurse aunt found the oncologist and the clinical trial for my father.  Our family pool paid whatever cost was incurred.

 

Quote

What experience I have had with "out of network" doctors - is in itself enough of a problem that I would be skeptical of such pools. 

What experience I have had with "out of network" doctors - is in itself enough of a problem that I would be skeptical of such pools.  

You are not understanding the purpose of a pool.  A pool is not the end all be all of healthcare.  It is the RESOURCE POOL for your healthcare.  Services that are needed outside of your pool's expertise are traded out.  For example, your family may not have anybody who knows how to fix a house.  But your family has somebody who can fix a car.  You find somebody to fix a house and you go fix his car.  Or you go fix somebody else's car for cash and give that cash to the house-fixer.

This, of course, requires you stop thinking of healthcare like an American.

 

Quote

In general...

Most, if not all, your problems with healthcare stem from 2 things:  1.) your convoluted Health Insurance system that has dug its claws into political lobbies causing your healthcare industry to become non-capitalistic.  2.) ambulance chasers.

Edited March 24, 2020 by anatess2

[JohnsonJones]

I'm not sure of all the reasons of the rise of costs, but the #1 reason I'd list is greed.

When you look at the prices insurance companies actually pay compared to what the some healthcare providers are actually charging, it is apparent that the Charges (Sometimes 10x - 20x what the insurance is actually going to pay) are far off balance of what it actually costs...or what the healthcare provider is actually expecting to make.

Something seems very wrong with that picture as it favors those in power (the healthcare and insurers) while tossing those who are not part of that system (for example, the uninsured who, even when they get a break will still have to pay 5X-10x what the insurance pays, just not the 20x of the actual charge) under the bus.

[estradling75]

2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'm not sure of all the reasons of the rise of costs, but the #1 reason I'd list is greed.

Greed is always a safe answer as a reason but it is not a Solution.  With greed being the reason then the Solution is to use the Financial system designed and built around harnessing Human greed to productive ends.  The system whose fundamental check and balances are not being allow to come in and correct this problem.  If it could then this problem would have corrected itself already.  The system is Capitalism and check it uses is informed Consumer choice.

Don't believe me...  Then ask yourself (generic usage) when was the last time you made an informed choice for a medical process which included cost?  Not just "does my insurance cover it?"  Sadly medical care is usually a case were we need it now!!! No matter the cost.  In any other situation we would realize we are setting ourselves up to get gouged on the price, and we would need to slow down and check out other options.  But we ignore that wisdom in Healthcare and then we complain about the cost. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

Don't believe me...  Then ask yourself (generic usage) when was the last time you made an informed choice for a medical process which included cost?  Not just "does my insurance cover it?"

I have a close relative who has in the last five years become independently wealthy. We weren't raised that way, but that's his position today. He's a rich man with a poor man's brain. When his wife had a baby two years ago, they found themselves shopping around for a hospital. Since they are uninsured, he planned to pay out of pocket. But he found that when he asked about the cost of procedures (specifically childbirth, but also any and all other medical procedures, including ultrasound procedures and simple checkups), he was invariably met by a fixed gaze and a look of perplexity, followed by, "I have no idea. You'll have to talk to Billing about that." And, by the way, Billing didn't know, either.

The amount charged for a routine medical procedure was unknown to any of the people working at the hospital or clinic.

Think about that. Can you think of any other business transaction we make where the underlying cost is literally unknown AND UNCARED ABOUT by pretty much everyone who works in that business?

This is a primary reason health care in the US is in such abysmal shape. The costs are all hidden, and therefore price gouging is built into the system. People cannot shop around. Competition doesn't exist.

Socialized medicine? Hah! It's already perfectly socialized! In the US health care industry, capitalism on the individual level is dead. The solution is not to bury it deeper. The solution is to revive capitalism.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Vort

[dprh]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I have a close relative who has in the last five years become independently wealthy. We weren't raised that way, but that's his position today. He's a rich man with a poor man's brain. When his wife had a baby two years ago, they found themselves shopping around for a hospital. Since they are uninsured, he planned to pay out of pocket. But he found that when he asked about the cost of procedures (specifically childbirth, but also any and all other medical procedures, including ultrasound procedures and simple checkups), he was invariably met by a fixed gaze and a look of perplexity, followed by, "I have no idea. You'll have to talk to Billing about that." And, by the way, Billing didn't know, either.

I've heard stories of two different people going to the same hospital for the same surgery in the same month and having vastly different total charges.  

Quote

Can you think of any other business transaction we make where the underlying cost is literally unknown AND UNCARED ABOUT by pretty much everyone who works in that business?

Nope.  I don't think there is.  It's crazy.  

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Socialized medicine? Hah! It's already perfectly socialized! In the US health care industry, capitalism on the individual level is dead. The solution is not to bury it deeper. The solution is to revive capitalism.

Indeed..  Yet the problem is being label a Capitalism problem... or more directly a Greedy Capitalist problem ignoring that Capitalism has some pretty good long term checks on greed... if they are allowed to operate.

 

[Traveler]

20 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I believe they exist.

 

I believe those also exist.

I also believe public school exist.

All of the above is irrelevant to the issue of Public Healthcare.  

Do you believe in State-funded Food?

Do you believe in State-funded Shelter?

Do you believe in State-funded childcare?

Do you believe in cradle-to-grave government managed system?

 

This is silly.  My neurologist brother did not treat my cancer-ridden father.  An oncologist did.  My brother, my nurse sister and my nurse aunt found the oncologist and the clinical trial for my father.  Our family pool paid whatever cost was incurred.

 

You are not understanding the purpose of a pool.  A pool is not the end all be all of healthcare.  It is the RESOURCE POOL for your healthcare.  Services that are needed outside of your pool's expertise are traded out.  For example, your family may not have anybody who knows how to fix a house.  But your family has somebody who can fix a car.  You find somebody to fix a house and you go fix his car.  Or you go fix somebody else's car for cash and give that cash to the house-fixer.

This, of course, requires you stop thinking of healthcare like an American.

 

Most, if not all, your problems with healthcare stem from 2 things:  1.) your convoluted Health Insurance system that has dug its claws into political lobbies causing your healthcare industry to become non-capitalistic.  2.) ambulance chasers.

I think I understand - we are not comparing apples to apples.  The family pool you are talking about come from your family in the Philippines?  And not so much from your husband's family?

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

Just now, Traveler said:

I think I understand - we are not comparing apples to apples.  The family pool you are talking about come from your family in the Philippines?  And not so much from your husband's family?

 

The Traveler

My husband's family is American.  They kicked my husband out when he turned 18.

[Traveler]

The idea of a public utility for health care came from my brother that was an executive  in a public utility.  Public utilities are privately healed corporations.  You can purchase the stock for these corporations on exchanges just like any other privately healed company.  I think the term "Public" may be misunderstood by some?  Some may think that they are run or controlled by the state (local or federal).  The two main differences between a public utility and other corporations is transparency and regulation.  These two things go together.  In a public utility every item is open to the public.  Every penny payed to any and all employees, every expense report, every penny given in bonuses, every penny paid to 3rd party vendors, every expense and every penny brought in as income - which includes all input revenues.   It is very, very difficult to cook the books for a public utility - not impossible but much harder.  There are also advantages for companies that are public utilities.  For example, it is very difficult to sue a public utility - not impossible but very, very difficult and such loses are insured and backed by the taxpayers so the utilities are not forced into planning for such expenditures.

I am well aware that very few things in this life work our perfectly.  I am not suggesting that changing the regulations for the medical profession and making medical care a public utility is magic and everything will work out and make everything without flaw forever after.  If so thought, I believe that the public utility could be a choice.  One could opt out and seek care else where.  However, should I be a betting man - I would bet that if such utility was available - even the most ardent critics of this notion in this thread - would opt in very quickly; both for reasons of their pocket book and for quality.

Let us take a honest and truthful look at where we are today with health care.  Make a list of the top 5 problems and the top 5 best benefits of our current health care.  Then ask yourself what other idea, notion or method would work better towards solving the top 5 problems without upsetting the best benefits????

One other point about a free market healthcare system.  If you or a loved one is dying and requires immediate care - I submit that searching out, comparing and researching the best free market option - really is not an option.

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

53 minutes ago, Traveler said:

The idea of a public utility for health care came from my brother that was an executive  in a public utility.  Public utilities are privately healed corporations.   

The problem of public utilities is exactly the same as Socialist countries - the utilities are heavily regulated.  And it is regulated by LOCAL government (closest government to the people filled with power-drunk locals which gives people not much recourse to get out of it - kinda like having an HOA control what you can do with your property).  The government bureaucracy practices preferences depending on lobbies.  My city, for example, have one company hold a monopoly on utilities.  You wanna go solar?  Good luck.  You wanna go off-grid - even worse.  You water your grass with city water, you pay sewage.  You dig a well to water your grass to avoid sewage fees, you can't.  Google Fiber has been trying to penetrate the local regulations, had to quit fighting for it.  Comcast and AT&T got the monopoly here.  So you're left with the choice of using Comcast with their bad service and AT&T with slightly better service but terrible customer service.  And we get behind on technology.

Net Neutrality was an attempt by the government to bring the internet into the public utilities arena.  You got Ajit Pai to thank for nuking that stupid idea.  You're going to put healthcare under government control?  More power to you.

 

Quote

Let us take a honest and truthful look at where we are today with health care.  Make a list of the top 5 problems and the top 5 best benefits of our current health care.  Then ask yourself what other idea, notion or method would work better towards solving the top 5 problems without upsetting the best benefits????

One other point about a free market healthcare system.  If you or a loved one is dying and requires immediate care - I submit that searching out, comparing and researching the best free market option - really is not an option.

I get the impression that you're on the boomer side of the US population.  And you're military too, right?   I don't think you've ever experienced a free market healthcare system.

This CoVID-19 pandemic has brought out all these loud people yelling, "PEOPLE'S LIVES BEFORE ECONOMY!" mantra when Trump gave the country a goal of overcoming the pandemic and restore the economy by Easter.  It seems like there are tons of them.  Yet, these are the exact same people when faced with a loved one who is dying is loathe to go bankrupt over it.

You only have 2 major problems:
1)  Healthcare dispensed by Health Insurance monopolies (works just like a utility - Insurance Companies monopolizing State markets through regulation).  It is so bad that Medical Schools in the USA are taught by Health Insurance Protocols instead of Individual Patient Diagnostics.  Ask any American doctor how to treat anything - they'll go pull up the recommendation by the Health Insurance.  We could've googled that ourselves.  People don't care to practice health savings or healthy lifestyles because... the insurance or the hospital pays for everything even going to the ER for the sniffles.
2.) Ambulance Chasers - causing skyrocketing costs by creating a practice of Defensive Medicine.  You got the sniffles, the doctor knows it's because of the flu going around, no signs of extreme respiratory or pulmonary stress or anything... you get an unnecessary blood test and chest x-ray on the off-chance that the doctor is wrong (especially since he's not taught investigative diagnosis anymore, he's taught to follow Health Insurance protocols) and you got pneumonia.  It's covered by insurance anyway...

You only got 1 Benefit:
1)  You got the most advanced Medical solutions on the planet.  It's a luxury enjoyed by people in Economic Prosperity.

Edited March 26, 2020 by anatess2

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I get the impression that you're on the boomer side of the US population.  And you're military too, right?   I don't think you've ever experienced a free market healthcare system.

I have more experience with free market healthcare than you realize.  I am aware of health care clinics in Mexico staffed by American doctors.  But these clinics do not have to take anyone and they do not take anyone that does not or cannot pay.  If you are willing to deny care to those that cannot pay to have a free market - then you can honestly argue for such.  But if you are not willing to let those that cannot pay and do not have charity backing to be denied health care than your argument ends with your own prejudice.

I am proposing something I think is workable today - it may not be perfect but I am sure it is better than what we have.  Maybe someday we can have a free market health care - but that is currently not realistic because the supply-demand curve currently means that regardless of all other factors there is more demand than supply - which means someone must do without.

 

The Traveler

[Backroads]

I see good points of where a free market health care system would ignore those who can't afford it but...

I can't help but think free market would also include stuff that is, at least virtually, free.

People will see a need for free healthcare in some situations and I'd bet they'd find a way to make it work for them. Tax breaks. Bragging rights. 

I'm not smart enough to explain any concrete ideas, but I'd be willing to bet it would happen.

[Grunt]

27 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I see good points of where a free market health care system would ignore those who can't afford it but...

I can't help but think free market would also include stuff that is, at least virtually, free.

People will see a need for free healthcare in some situations and I'd bet they'd find a way to make it work for them. Tax breaks. Bragging rights. 

I'm not smart enough to explain any concrete ideas, but I'd be willing to bet it would happen.

In a free market if there is a demand, and a dollar to be made, there will typically be a supply.

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

I see good points of where a free market health care system would ignore those who can't afford it but...

I can't help but think free market would also include stuff that is, at least virtually, free.

People will see a need for free healthcare in some situations and I'd bet they'd find a way to make it work for them. Tax breaks. Bragging rights. 

I'm not smart enough to explain any concrete ideas, but I'd be willing to bet it would happen.

Also interesting to note... that those people who are more likely to be supporters of the free market system.. also tend to be more charitable...  It almost like the people who understand the system the best are also covering its short comings...  Take for example our church... Totally supportive of people  working and figuring out things for themselves.  But if some thing bad happens they are willing to help out and help people get back up.

Free Market is all about two individuals or groups coming to a arrangement that benefits both. Most of the time we think in terms of money, but that is not always the case.  How many people have felt better or more blessed while and after they have served someone?  That is not a experience that is limited to church people.  Its still a beneficial arrangement to both even when all the goods and services are flowing in one direction.

[anatess2]

11 hours ago, Traveler said:

I have more experience with free market healthcare than you realize.  I am aware of health care clinics in Mexico staffed by American doctors.  But these clinics do not have to take anyone and they do not take anyone that does not or cannot pay.  If you are willing to deny care to those that cannot pay to have a free market - then you can honestly argue for such.  But if you are not willing to let those that cannot pay and do not have charity backing to be denied health care than your argument ends with your own prejudice.

I am proposing something I think is workable today - it may not be perfect but I am sure it is better than what we have.  Maybe someday we can have a free market health care - but that is currently not realistic because the supply-demand curve currently means that regardless of all other factors there is more demand than supply - which means someone must do without.

 

The Traveler

You believe if you don't eat you die, right?

So why is Food working out in a vastly more Capitalist system and you don't think Healthcare will?  Those 2 actually go together.

[NeuroTypical]

It's amazing that even in a full blown global pandemic where all the Americans are hoarding food and sanitation products like they were about to disappear forever, I'm still able to buy food and sanitation products at the store.   It's only a little harder - I have to plan my week instead of just being able to stop by any time.

Capitalism and the free market are truly one of the best inventions of man.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone showed up with some scriptural or prophetic quote from somewhere, pointing out that it's actually an invention of God.

[anatess2]

11 hours ago, Traveler said:

I have more experience with free market healthcare than you realize.  I am aware of health care clinics in Mexico staffed by American doctors.  But these clinics do not have to take anyone and they do not take anyone that does not or cannot pay.  If you are willing to deny care to those that cannot pay to have a free market - then you can honestly argue for such.  But if you are not willing to let those that cannot pay and do not have charity backing to be denied health care than your argument ends with your own prejudice.

I am proposing something I think is workable today - it may not be perfect but I am sure it is better than what we have.  Maybe someday we can have a free market health care - but that is currently not realistic because the supply-demand curve currently means that regardless of all other factors there is more demand than supply - which means someone must do without.

 

The Traveler

P.S.  When it comes to Food, we have a very good example of what happens when we socialize Food.  10 Million dead in the Soviet Union.

[anatess2]

On 3/25/2020 at 9:33 AM, Vort said:

I have a close relative who has in the last five years become independently wealthy. We weren't raised that way, but that's his position today. He's a rich man with a poor man's brain. When his wife had a baby two years ago, they found themselves shopping around for a hospital. Since they are uninsured, he planned to pay out of pocket. But he found that when he asked about the cost of procedures (specifically childbirth, but also any and all other medical procedures, including ultrasound procedures and simple checkups), he was invariably met by a fixed gaze and a look of perplexity, followed by, "I have no idea. You'll have to talk to Billing about that." And, by the way, Billing didn't know, either.

The amount charged for a routine medical procedure was unknown to any of the people working at the hospital or clinic.

Think about that. Can you think of any other business transaction we make where the underlying cost is literally unknown AND UNCARED ABOUT by pretty much everyone who works in that business?

I have 2 first-hand experiences.

1.)  First pregnancy, my husband and I were both self-employed contractors.  This was before Obamacare.  So we purchased Hospital and Surgical Insurance.  It ONLY covers hospitalizations and surgeries.  Nothing else.  And the hospitalization did not cover normal pregnancy.  The OB (I LOVE that guy!) sat down with me and mapped a care plan JUST FOR ME and not by what the health insurance protocols say.  I negotiated a price with him and they had to figure out how to do it because they've never had to do self-pay before and I negotiated charges with the labs.  I had all the money saved up for my entire pregnancy and hospitalization if it would've gone normal.  I could've planned for a home birth and saved but I did not want to risk it, I'd rather pay the hospital to eliminate risk.  But as bad luck would have it, I ended up in an emergency - and that's when the insurance kicked in - 100% coverage on the hospitalization as it was surgical.  I stayed in the hospital for 2 weeks.

2.)  My dad got lung cancer in the Philippines.  He has no health insurance.  My workmate in Florida has a mom who has lung cancer too and she told me that she is in a clinical trial for Avastin.  So my brother who is a physician in the Philippines and my sister and aunt who are nurses in Texas worked with the people conducting the clinical trial to get my dad in it.  They took my dad's case immediately so we flew him to Texas the next day and he entered the trials.  Everything paid for except for some meds to deal with side effects - which cost an arm and a leg.  We pooled our money to pay for the meds.  Were it not for the clinical trials that I forced my dad to join, my dad would have died in under 6 months because he refused to spend money on chemo to prolong his life with drastically reduced quality of living.  He was ready to die.  I told my dad he might be ready to die but I am not.  The 2 years that he survived lung cancer was the toughest test God gave me yet.  I realized my dad lived for 2 years so that I can learn my lesson of accepting his passing.  He could have lived another decade or more on the clinical trials (my workmate's mother did) but towards the end there, my dad screamed at my sister - "I am a prisoner!" and went on hunger strike because he wanted to go home.  I was forced to face the reality of my dad's passing and that's when I finally learned to accept it. 

People fear death so they sacrifice their liberty for it.  My dad did not fear death.  He was ready.  I learned the hard way to not cling to my father's mortality - it was the height of my selfishness.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by anatess2

[estradling75]

18 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I have 2 first-hand experiences.

1.)  First pregnancy, my husband and I were both self-employed contractors.  This was before Obamacare.  So we purchased Hospital and Surgical Insurance.  It ONLY covers hospitalizations and surgeries.  Nothing else.  And the hospitalization did not cover normal pregnancy.  The OB (I LOVE that guy!) sat down with me and mapped a care plan JUST FOR ME and not by what the health insurance protocols say.  I negotiated a price with him and they had to figure out how to do it because they've never had to do self-pay before and I negotiated charges with the labs.  I had all the money saved up for my entire pregnancy and hospitalization if it would've gone normal.  I could've planned for a home birth and saved but I did not want to risk it, I'd rather pay the hospital to eliminate risk.  But as bad luck would have it, I ended up in an emergency - and that's when the insurance kicked in - 100% coverage on the hospitalization as it was surgical.  I stayed in the hospital for 2 weeks.

 

Bingo...  If we are serious about reforming and fixing Health Care... there are two areas we need to tackle.  Both of which are areas we traded Freedom for Safety and ended up shafted.

First the Government regulation of Heath-care and medicine needs to be dialed way back.  We thought we would be safer if the government regulated it... what we got was restricted supply that can not meet the demand and increased cost.

Second the Insurance myth.  Insurance should be for things you hope never happen but you want to be ready for when and if they do.  It should not be for basic and expected expense.  Yet we have bought the Myth that everyone "must have medical insurance"  Because we believe this myth we have created a 'Union' that only represents itself.  It strong arms Doctor's and Hospital causing increased cost for them that they have to pass on. And it strong arms its 'clients' with high premiums and restricted services.

Those are what needs to be reduced and restricted to fix the system.  Sadly most people think we need more of both.

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Bingo...  If we are serious about reforming and fixing Health Care... there are two areas we need to tackle.  Both of which are areas we traded Freedom for Safety and ended up shafted.

First the Government regulation of Heath-care and medicine needs to be dialed way back.  We thought we would be safer if the government regulated it... what we got was restricted supply that can not meet the demand and increased cost.

Second the Insurance myth.  Insurance should be for things you hope never happen but you want to be ready for when and if they do.  It should not be for basic and expected expense.  Yet we have bought the Myth that everyone "must have medical insurance"  Because we believe this myth we have created a 'Union' that only represents itself.  It strong arms Doctor's and Hospital causing increased cost for them that they have to pass on. And it strong arms its 'clients' with high premiums and restricted services.

Those are what needs to be reduced and restricted to fix the system.  Sadly most people think we need more of both.

By the way, when my kid was 7 months old, his pediatrician has prescribed him antibiotics 3 times already.  It's like she looks at my son for 2 minutes and writes a prescription for antibiotics.  I thought to myself at that time, there's gotta be a better way than this!  So I moved him out of his regular pediatrician to a holistic pediatrician who did not have affiliations with insurance carriers at the time.  She was a young'un - barely older than me, who had trouble getting insurance companies to add her to their networks because she classifies herself as a D.O. even when she is an M.D. as well.  Anti-vaxxers love her.  Hah hah.  She was recommended to me by my friend who planned a home birth in a bathtub with a doula. 

I interviewed her at her office for over an hour talking about how she practices medicine (I didn't know what a D.O. was at the time).  I was surprised she sat down with me for an hour.  I could barely get 10 minutes out of the regular pediatrician.  

Her office was just her and a nurse practitioner and a bare bones office staff.  They had a book of medical codes with prices hand written next to them that they consult to estimate how much you would owe them for the visit.  I always paid same day then I get a statement in the mail for the office visit with a balance that says 0.  I don't know how they deal with patients who puts their billing on credit.

Anyway, when I got pregnant with the 2nd child, she worked with my OB and gave me a pre-natal nutrition and supplements routine.  Then the day I gave birth, she visited me at the hospital, checked the baby from head to toe and observed my breastfeeding routine.  She was there for over an hour. 

She finally joined insurance and Medicare networks a decade later - Obamacare killed her practice together with my Hospital and Surgical Insurance.  Since then, I can barely get an appointment with her - I have to wait a couple months just to get a well check so I can give the form to the public school.

[Guest Scott]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

It's amazing that even in a full blown global pandemic where all the Americans are hoarding food and sanitation products like they were about to disappear forever, I'm still able to buy food and sanitation products at the store.   It's only a little harder - I have to plan my week instead of just being able to stop by any time.

Capitalism and the free market are truly one of the best inventions of man.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone showed up with some scriptural or prophetic quote from somewhere, pointing out that it's actually an invention of God.

Brigham Young believed capitalism was of Satan, but at times a necessary evil.   

Capitialism and communism are both a corruption of the Law of Concecration, but right now we need the former.  Or so it seems.    

Edited March 27, 2020 by Scott

[JohnsonJones]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

Brigham Young believed capitalism was of Satan, but at times a necessary evil.   

Capitialism and communism are both a corruption of the Law of Concecration, but right now we need the former.  Or so it seems.    

He had some very interesting views on both capitalism and communal living, though he was probably at the forefront of creating communistic/communal communities at the time.  Some at a later date even saw him as a prophet due to his creation of many of the principles which Marxist communism tried to create (but, ultimately, as it was a poor copy of the true form of the Lord's intent, as it was from the opposite source, was not successful in that light).

This is a book that some suggest in relation to his views and ideas as well as the execution of communal and cooperatives within the community of the Saints during the 19th century.  What is interesting in relation to the socialistic/proto-communistic ideals Young installed was it implies that at times these were enforced BY force...not necessarily entirely willing members at times.  It also has an interesting hypothesis indicates that the real reason the US government came after the Saints was not due to polygamy specifically, but more in relation to economics and politics.  An interesting read on the subject.

Great Basin Kingdom

Not that it has much to do with the current topic overall, but an interesting read.

On topic, whatever is done, I hope that something can be done that truly IS useful in bringing down the prices of insurance and healthcare costs as well as making it easier and more available to all.  One should not have to fear bankruptcy from a major illness or ailment.

Edited March 27, 2020 by JohnsonJones