Subtle Possession


Carborendum
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I believe I had once talked about my BIL who had some sickness akin to Job's ailments.  Doctors could find no sign of any type of pathogen that would account for this.  There was no bodily function that was amiss (like auto-immune disorder).

But this happened shortly after he moved his household to another state.  He just revealed that he moved because he couldn't stand being around our (extended) family because we were all so "churchy".  Now he has taken to cussing out my wife because I sent out a list of scriptures to the family via email. 

The two of them have always been very close.  He always had a special place in his heart for my wife.  But here he was cussing her out because of scriptures.  It was accompanied by an angry tirade against the Church and their $100B then calling for a worldwide fast about Corona.  He called the Church a cult and is doing all he can to bring us out of it.

He said many more things which I won't repeat here.  But as I listened, it occurred to me that he actually is possessed.  I remember @Jojo Bags used to talk about that all the time.  I never believed it was as pervasive and common as he talked about.  But I always believed it happened to some degree or other.

Not only has he done a complete reversal on so many things, but the drastic actions he's taken over the past 5 or 6 years are very disturbing.  His attitudes have change.  He's a completely different person.  He's so easily prone to anger and outbursts.  And then this plague he seems to have without any explanation...  That chil' ain't right.

We had actually fasted for his healing a couple of times.  The Spirit told me that it would not work.  I believe now that it was because there would have been faith to bring about the requested healing, if not for one thing.  He, himself, was resisting the blessing.  He did not want it.  He wanted to prove we were doing a useless act.  He actually wants to keep the evil spirit within him.

My wife made a comment about how spirits have been trained.  In Christ's time, we saw clear evidence of insanity like "Legion".  But these evil spirits have had several thousand year to practice hiding in plain sight.  Today, we may have many signs of possession without us even thinking it is supernatural at all.  Why bother possessing someone to get put in a hospital, when they could simply get people to do "normal" things, but just abandon good works.

I know the reasons people leave the Church are (ahem) "Legion".  So, I am NOT saying that everyone (nor even most <-- disclaimer here) who leaves the Church is possessed.  But there are times when it seems that it must be something quite different.  And when I heard all the details about the recent changes to my BIL, and all the things I've known throughout the years, it hit me like a freight train.  He is possessed.

I maintain my position from long ago, that members of the Church tend not to ostracize those who leave the Church.  They tend to ostracize themselves from us.  Yes, yes, there are some who are ostracized.  You're always going to have some small number of people who just don't get it.  But most of the time, I see them ostracizing themselves from us.  I wonder if these cases are because the evil spirits can't stand to be around us.

Possession is not always a foreign spirit simply stepping in and taking over the physiological control over a body. It starts with simply "influencing".  Poking and prodding.  Just as the Lord "guides" us, evil spirits will also guide us -- just down a different path.  Just as we can learn to follow the Lord's voice, and eventually become one with him, the same path is available with evil spirits.  But one path is what we hope for.  The other is one we're *usually* (usually, as in most often, not always, some exceptions, exclusions, special circumstances...I hate having to put so many disclaimers in, even though there are going to be some people who ignore them anyway, so why do I bother?) unaware of the path we're going down.

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Your description of your bil fits my ex-wife exactly, she left the church 6yrs ago, except I still live with and support her and my teenage girls. 

This past weekend I watched conf on the big screen in our living room, as each one of them woke up and entered they made snide remarks and exited quickly, like a vampire being exposed to the light. Yes my ex has groomed the little ones over the yrs to hate the church too.

Only since this past weekend has the thought of a bad spirit crossed my mind, I prayed to God to help me escape this but I keep reminding myself that after 1yr off my mission I prayed to God to send me an angel, he literally sent me her as she had just gotten off her mission. He then sent me 3 more angels, my girls, to take care of. That is why I will not leave them because I made an oath in my heart to be their provider. 

The funny thing is that life is all flowers and cookies in this home but when the subject of my religion comes up, they become very hostile. I have witnessed their gradual decline from church and christ and defended them as I witnessed both sides first hand. I have learned a lot and have a lot to say in hopes that I can beat this. Sadly its out of my hands, only christ can heal this. 

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The two of them have always been very close.  He always had a special place in his heart for my wife.  But here he was cussing her out because of scriptures.  It was accompanied by an angry tirade against the Church and their $100B then calling for a worldwide fast about Corona.  He called the Church a cult and is doing all he can to bring us out of it.

If he wants to have his beliefs respected, he's got to respect hers.  Actively campaigning to change person is a sign of a toxic relationship.

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

He said many more things which I won't repeat here.  But as I listened, it occurred to me that he actually is possessed.  I remember @Jojo Bags used to talk about that all the time.  I never believed it was as pervasive and common as he talked about.  But I always believed it happened to some degree or other.

Not only has he done a complete reversal on so many things, but the drastic actions he's taken over the past 5 or 6 years are very disturbing.  His attitudes have change.  He's a completely different person.  He's so easily prone to anger and outbursts.  And then this plague he seems to have without any explanation...  That chil' ain't right.

I'm not sure how I feel about about literal demonic possession, but I'm 100% sure that some people become possessed by the spirit of anger / bitterness / hatred.  That's... just not healthy.  No matter how justified (or not) the rage is, bitterness is a cup of poison that destroys the person.

 

My heart goes out to you & your family @Carborendum.

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Would "subtle possession" correlate with the spirit we list to obey? Our eternal reward is dependent on the spirit we list to obey. Our scriptures let us know that Satan was able to harden peoples hearts, because they listed to obey him rather than the Lord.

Overtime, if we only listen to one spirit that might be also said we have been possessed by them.

Edited by Anddenex
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This is a difficult subject for me on so many fronts.  I have has some experiences with spirits.  We are told in scripture that there are in essence two kinds or types of spirits.  They are spirits of light and spirits of darkness.  Life and intelligence exist through spirit essence - there cannot be life nor can there be intelligence except by spirit essence.  This may sound odd coming from a scientist and engineer that in part made a living consulting in the arena of industrial artificial intelligence. 

Often in scripture we encounter the symbolism of light and darkness.  This is not exactly the same as the presents of electromagnetic radiation or the absents of it.  A dark spirit is essence unto itself.  Thought a dark spirit is in opposition to a spirit of light; each is a foundation of powers associated either to good or to evil.  Now I would be somewhat bold in saying that there is no sickness or pain that is not associated to the powers and spirits of darkness.  Likewise there is no lasting joy that is not associated to the powers and spirits of light.

I would share again some experience from my past.  I use to travel a great deal in my work.  Often I would be mentally drained at the end of the day - I would return to my hotel room and turn on the TV.  I was both astonished and embarrassed how often the TV would immediately display an explicit sexual seen.   One day I mentioned this to a good friend that on occasions would travel with me.  He told me that he use to have that same problem.  I wondered why he said that he use to have that problem but not any more.  As I asked; he informed me that he believed such to be the result of unclean dark spirits and that he was able to solve the problem by using his priesthood to cast out the dark evil spirits from his hotel room.  I have not had this problem since I took his words to heart and applied them for myself.

I have a next door neighbor that is a psychiatrist.  We are quite close and I told him of my discovery.  As we talked he told me of a article he read some years ago - I obtained a copy for myself but have since lost it and my neighbor has retired and moved.  But here is the just.  My neighbor discovered that many of his patients  started having the same problems even thought they had no other connection than appointments in his office following back to back.  He decided to do the same thing - to spiritually disinfect his office by casting out evil dark spirits with his priesthood between clients.

I believe that it is possible that evil spirits can and do infect like a disease.  We may think our immune system can withstand but I believe that if we spend enough time with those infected by evil spirits (note that I used the term infected rather than possessed) that we will likewise become infected to one degree or another.  I do not want to give the impression that we should shun others because we can be healers.  The difference is that healers treat others in a place of cleanliness and not in places of filth where infections are rampant.   I have learned the lesson many times - if I am going to deal with evil dark spirits - I am going to do so on my turf where I can insure a clean (sterile) environment.  I have discovered that if the environment is not clean and sterile - what ever action I try to take - it will only result in matters becoming worse (more infected) - for me as well as others.

 

The Traveler

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26 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Would "subtle possession" correlate with the spirit we list to obey? Our eternal reward is dependent on the spirit we list to obey. Our scriptures let us know that Satan was able to harden peoples hearts, because they listed to obey him rather than the Lord.

Overtime, if we only listen to one spirit that might be also said we have been possessed by them.

I understand the scriptural term (listed to obey) - but I do not believe is always the case.  Rather I would say it (at least in the beginning) as the spirit we would entertain or explore.

 

The Traveler

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I have seen people possessed with a spirit of enmity.  It ain’t pretty.  

I don’t know if it is demonic or not, but I don’t doubt it.

I have seen a few of these people cast the spirit out as well.

Scary. Sad.

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Some "spiritual" thoughts.  Years ago I befriended a lay Buddhist monk through my work.  Many classify Buddhism as a religion - some forms definitely are, other forms are not so much.  I had studied Buddhism theology but I decided to explore in depth the Buddhist art of meditation.  The point of meditation to a Buddhist is to become "aware" - especially of subtle influences that surround us.  The more I explored this concept of meditation the more I realized that all the principles that we are taught about meditation within our own faith have application.  I also discovered that I did not need to sit alone in a vacant room repeating a mantra to meditate on an idea or principle but I did need to learn to filter noise including filtering the kind of noise that exceeds just sounds.  I am leaving a lot out but I believe it possible to grow spiritually through meditation and find meditation to be a tool in understanding scripture (among other things).

With the understanding that meditation is becoming aware - I began to meditate with the effort to learn what I could about the origins of my thoughts.  I have believed that I am quite good at coming up with ideas (especially at work) and therefore I am smarter than most.  However, because of attempting to become aware of my own thoughts I have become convinced that there are thoughts that come to me (and I assume to everybody else as well) that are not generated internally to who and what I am but externally.  In short I believe many of "my" thoughts are not really my thoughts but come from somewhere outside of who and what I am.  I wonder if any thoughts are uniquely my own?

I believe that temptations are initiated as thoughts.  As we entertain thoughts we convince ourselves to act on our thoughts.  I have come to believe that while in our fallen mortal state that we are mostly like a radio listening device to thoughts that are being "broadcast".  Mostly we become connected to what we listen for - that, in essence, there are only two types of broadcasting's taking place.  One source is of light and truth and the other is the opposite and is darkness and deceptions of truth.   (note that I used deceptions of truth rather than the term, a lie).

In short I believe everything is directly related to influences of some spirit of light or a spirit of darkness - Everything!  I do not believe that there are any gray spirits.  Our only choices in this life is to listen to either a spirit of light or a spirit of darkness or some imbalance of both.  Now, I will testify - that once someone is armed with such understanding - that they will know within them exactly which thoughts are thoughts of light and truth and which thoughts are of darkness, deception and misunderstanding.  And as Jesus said, "As a man thinks so is he".  We become the thoughts we choose.

 

The Traveler

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24 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Some "spiritual" thoughts.  Years ago I befriended a lay Buddhist monk through my work.  Many classify Buddhism as a religion - some forms definitely are, other forms are not so much.  I had studied Buddhism theology but I decided to explore in depth the Buddhist art of meditation.  The point of meditation to a Buddhist is to become "aware" - especially of subtle influences that surround us. 

Many years ago I found a book called something like "The Complete Idiots Guide to Zen Living." I learned a lot of useful things from that book.

I decided that the core, simple teachings of Buddhism - such as mindfulness, letting go of negative feelings and attachments, accepting reality - would greatly benefit American culture if we adopted them. For example, imagine what the freeways would be if everyone adopted the attitude that we're all flowing together, and accepted that congestion happens, etc.

Also, as LDS members, letting go and accepting reality are big steps toward being able to forgive and repent. And mindfulness - what better way to feel the Spirit and hear answer to our prayers that to be entirely living and listening in the present moment.

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On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 3:34 AM, Carborendum said:

I know the reasons people leave the Church are (ahem) "Legion".  So, I am NOT saying that everyone (nor even most <-- disclaimer here) who leaves the Church is possessed.  But there are times when it seems that it must be something quite different.  And when I heard all the details about the recent changes to my BIL, and all the things I've known throughout the years, it hit me like a freight train.  He is possessed.

 

For people like my ex-wife and my younger brother. This is how they lose the faith and their path to God.

them - Other People (Church) - God

Its very, very complicated how drama within the church occur but when the dust settles it usually ends up where one person (guilty of offense or not) continues on with the fold and the other (guilty of offense or not) becomes uncomfortable (or alienated in their minds) and ends up leaving the fold/church. Some that make it to this point, who feel uncomfortable, simply and quietly slip away and enjoy life on another path, these people tend to not have much if any LDS associations outside of church so when they do leave they don't incur the constant reminder of their rebellion.

Others who leave still want a relationship with God but because they still believe that the only way is through the church, aka "other people" whom they choose not to be around anymore, they become angry and bitter because they were taught in church that they are now on the wrong side of the fence. All of a sudden, what was a problem between the leaver and another individual becomes a problem with the whole church. When it gets to this point the leaver is usually trying to find reasons to hate the church even more and prove in their minds that everything is false because they feel they were wronged. You can see how this creates hatred in ones heart and allows for what we are trying to identify as a subtle possession.

I am optimistic about the day when Gods kingdom is like a marathon. Everyone is eager to participate and try their best at their own pace. There is no shaming, judging, uncomfortableness involved. Actually I believe we were all once in that marathon, it was the pre-existence and we were all eager and willing to participate in Jesus's plan. Earth is happening to us right now and it is very, very complicated, pain, suffering, judging etc.. Next stop, heaven, back to the marathon and everyone will be exactly where they need to be.. on their way to their own personal best. 

At least here on earth, This is how they will find the gospel again:

them - other people (Church) - God

Edited by priesthoodpower
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I had "thought" that I had cracked open a door about thoughts and how thoughts initiate or attract us towards light and truth or darkness and deceptions.   I wonder how others deal with their thoughts or if you ever wonder about seemingly strange or out of place thoughts.

 

The Traveler

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