LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations


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I believe that many Jewish scholars would be shocked.....  as well as profoundly encouraged to read this article

that in my opinion is the best explanation on this subject put forward by any major Christian denomination.

I am kind of in awe to be reading this!

I myself cannot think of the massive psychological studies done by Dr. Ian Stevenson has having zero value because as I read his research I remembered so many scriptures in the Jewish and Christian Bible in a different light.

Multiple Mortal Probations 




The Church of Jesus Christ in Christian Fellowship has no official position on gilgul (גלגול, Hebrew for “rolling”), past lives, reincarnation, or multiple mortal probations (or MMP). There are a number of views on these within the Latter Day Saint movement, from their necessity to reach the highest degrees of Heaven, to outright disdain. Here we will introduce you to some of these concepts as they relate to both the Latter Day Saint movement and Kabbalah. Please note that this is just an introduction. More study on these topics is encouraged.

Malachi, Elijah, and Joseph Smith

While reincarnation is not a common Christian teaching, there are those that believe certain passages hint to this concept. The most notable will likely also be controversial, as it evolves Elijah and John the Baptist.

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith YHVH of hosts… Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.” -Malachi 3:1, 4:5



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19 hours ago, Vort said:



"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father." (John 16:25)


I could be wrong but my opinion as of April 18, 2020 is that near death experience accounts that have a valid Life Review are the most likely fulfillment of this promise from Messiah Yeshua- Jesus to speak plainly of the Father in the future.... that I been able to find so far.  They are amazingly easy to understand.

Former Atheist Howard Storm asked about The Holocaust during his brush with death and the answer that he got sounds like gold to me:



"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart. The anguish that Jesus was suffering at the slaughter of his people was too much for me to bear and I begged that we leave this place. I will never forget this: his anguish at this horror and what it represents. This was one of the low points in human history."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events." (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)


Near death expeiencer Dr. P. M. H. Atwater was shown something very similar about what was going on in the afterlife after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack.  


What Howard Storm was shown about the world of the year 2185 sure seems to fit with many predictions in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the Minor Prophets.






The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world. 


And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.


There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.


What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.


People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.


Animals lived with people, in harmony.


People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.



I've already answered your question over here with some other relevant details from my past and why I just can't stay away from this type of information.





I went through such a massive theological crisis back in 1990 after my dad died and I found out that Soul Sleep was incorrect....... that I resorted to drastic measures and made an offer to HaShem that frankly worked out far, far, far, far, far, far better than I had expected for it to work out!


Would you be interested in your volunteering to become a "Yom Kippur goat" if....

.. by doing so you were assured that you could save the lives of at least a million people and......
improve life for perhaps a hundred million people?

I actually thought this question through over twenty nine years ago........ and I tossed my hat in the ring and submitted a proposed bid..... offer..... wager... proposed investment of time...... for me.... .to pay off the debt - guilt of Azazel.......... IF.... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and / or the Heavenly Father had any use for a volunteer goat for Azazel.

I've been in a conversation over the past few days that has me convinced that I should start a public discussion on this opportunity facing all of you.

"but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD
to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness
to Aza'zel." (Leviticus 16:10)




Edited by DennisTate
add another quotation....
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You Latter day Saints are all set up to be able to handle some super hot information from near death experience accounts that set you up to be able to be the leaders in the fulfillment of

statements in Ezekiel chapter 37:


15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.


So the ability of Latter day Saints to be able to handle simple statements like the following and realize how this really could be the long term plan of HaShem for all of us..... give you a massive edge in a massive shift in world events and trends that will be a huge step toward the fulfillment of the Era of Moshiach / The Millennium/ The Age of the Messiah.  The vast majority of Evangelical Christians would be profoundly offended by the following idea:


Christian Andreason, near-death   .com :



h. Who goes to heaven?

In the end ... believe it or not (sigh of relief), everyone gets to come home! Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE. When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher Realms of Heaven. If we do not practice Love, we can only go so far and we will be made to incarnate somewhere out there in God's super Universe again and again (unlimited times) until we learn." (Christian Andreason, near-death   .com)

The Personality of Mashiach



As a faithful shepherd he already cares so much about his people that he volunteered to suffer all kinds of agonies to assure that not a single Jew of all times will be lost.20

Mashiach shall meditate on the Torah21 and be preoccupied with mitzvot. He shall teach all the Jewish people and instruct them in the way of G‑d. He will prevail upon Israel to follow and observe the Torah, repair its breaches, and fight the battles of G‑d.22

Mashiach will reveal altogether new insights, making manifest the hidden mysteries of the Torah,23 to the point that “all the Torah learned in the present world will be vain compared to the Torah of Mashiach.”24

Though Mashiach comes first and foremost to Israel, all the nations will recognize his wisdom and sublimity and submit to his rule.25 He will guide and instruct them as well.26

There is no need for Mashiach to perform signs and wonders to prove himself.27Nonetheless, he will do so.28






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Latter day Saints are uniquely prepared.......  (but it still is not going to be easy)..... to be twisted together with Jewish scholars rather like as was shown to near death experiencer Bruce MacDonald: A Thomas samples.html


The Father said to me one evening in my time of meditation, “You wonder that people other than the Jews have the secrets of the Kingdom as well as you. As you have been instructed before, the secrets of the Kingdom have been given to many people, but to no one in their complete form, so that each, seeking in their own way, may gradually come closer to me, but no one group can say, ‘I have the secret and you are excluded.’ Indeed, any who say that, have already put themselves outside of the Kingdom, because the Kingdom comes by Love, and Love is a working together. Love is not exclusively for one group.”

“In the end of the Age, peoples from all parts of the earth will bring their knowledge together and will find the Inner Way to me by working together. So, read and know what has been given to others, that your knowledge may be complete and you may be able to come to Me, all working together in Love.” (Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D.)



Near death experiencer Bruce MacDonald was shown Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus teaching his disciples in a way that would fit perfectly with the teachings of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov or his grandfather The Baal Shem Tov or.... Rabbi Alon Anava in 2020!



"You do not understand this life, he said on a later occasion, so you do not understand what you can achieve. You think that you were born and die and have only the time in between to live. The Sadducees do not even believe in the resurrection. And the Pharisees and Essenes believe you are saved or damned on the basis of what you do here in this life.

So you judge and condemn others and forsake love in order to enter heaven. Yet I tell you that the Father has many heavens and many homes for you. This is not your only life, and these are not the only things you have to learn. You will have lives in other times and places.

Do not judge the gentiles? You may have been a Gentile. Do not judge the prostitute You may have been a prostitute. Do not judge the Roman or Greek? You may have been those.

"The Father wishes you to know the life of the world in all its conditions so that you may be able to love those in all conditions. He wishes you to learn poverty and wealth, weakness and strength, sickness and health so that, in all these, you may seek Him and find Him.

Is He the Father only of the righteous? No, he is Father of all and Mother of all. All may come to God and find the love appropriate to their condition. Are you poor? Learn to love your fellows. Are you rich? Learn to give of your surplus to those who have nothing. Are you in a place of power? Learn to use your power for the good of others. Learn the love appropriate to the condition you are in and all conditions will become blessed. (Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. page 117,118, The Thomas Book, Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus")





Bruce F. MacDonald Ph.  :

"So, do not fear what people can do to your body, because you will have many more of those. Rather, avoid those who can kill the soul within you, those who would destroy love and the light of your soul. I tell you, you will have much more to learn then, and at the end of the Age, those who have not learned love will enter the Long Sleep, while those who have learned love, will inherit the New Earth which the Father prepares for them."

"In each life, you are affected by what happened in other lives, but you in turn can affect those lives. The Father has not put you in a prison, that you can change nothing. Rather, you can do anything when your inner eyes are opened and you see the Kingdom within."

"Now, even you who follow me see dimly as through a fog. So do not, in that condition, set up laws for others to follow. Rather, teach others to grow in spirit so that their eyes may be opened to the peace and love of the Father."

The Father wishes good for you, not evil. If then, you bring your fears and errors before the Father in meditation, He will help you to understand and be free. The Father does not condemn: you condemn yourself."

"If you judge, you will be judged. If you condemn, you are already condemned. If you do not love, how will you know love? If you are cruel, cruelty will come to you. What you are within yourself ----- that you will draw to yourself." (Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D., The Thomas Book, Near Death, A Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus.
page 117,118 )


Edited by DennisTate
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  • 2 months later...
On 4/17/2020 at 1:04 PM, Vort said:


I would love to be wrong about this.........  I am basically optimistic for the future but.......  Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan is off the scale intelligent and his devices and methods should not be mis-underestimated.  

For the sake of the eight billion infinitely precious human lives on this third rock, (and also much cattle as was told to the Prophet Jonah)...... I feel that I should predict and therefore somewhat assist in a trend that I feel has enormous positive potential:


LDS teachings on Multiple Mortal Probabions set you up to have discussions with Israeli theologians like Rabbi Alon Anava that might never cross the mind of somebody from a different denominational background.  

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