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Emmanuel Goldstein

The Excuse of all Tyrants

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There is a perception that anti-POTUS municipalities are closing parks to make POTUS look bad. Pro-POTUS people are upset that they can't take walk in the park with their kids because the mayor doesn't like the President. The police then, look like pawns. My sympathy is even greater for the state troopers that were ordered to issue $500 tickets to attendees of a drive-in church service, because Greenville, MS's mayor didn't like POTUS (though he claimed to be following direction from the governor's office).

What's sad is that both sides (how ridiculous is this during a pandemic???) don't trust each other. The pro-closure folks believe the pro-opening folks are just trying to prop up POTUS--and have blood on their hands. The pro-opening folks believe that the closure folks are willing to bankrupt businesses and starve children because of their blind hatred of POTUS. Honestly, where are the adults???

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Tyrants give order they do not follow orders.  Following orders is not what tyrants do so if orders are bad - the real problem is with those creating them.  In short - I think that following orders is a great excuse - unless you are not really following orders but making them up as you go.

All that said - it is interesting that the cronoavirus is much more likely to be spread indoors in confined spaces than outside in open spaces.  Lets be clear about one thing - social distancing  and isolation will not stop the cronoavirus - it is intended to slow it down with the hope that science will be able to invent a treatment or a possible cure.  If a treatment or cure is not found the only way to prevent infection is to isolate forever by yourself.  But there is always the problem that after 18 months those affected with cronoavirus will turn into brain eating zombies.  That would make the second wave much worse - Didn't I hear that the CDC is predicting the second wave to be much worse?  😰

I am sorry but this staying at home thing - I think is starting to have a strange effect on me.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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Watching the whole video.

1.  It appeared the Police officer actually taped off the park.  The people didn't know exactly why it was taped off (it was with police tape apparently, it could have been a crime scene for all they knew), they just decided to rip the tape down.  They didn't just leave it on the ground though, there seems to have been a statue that they then wrapped the police tape all around.

2.  When he came he announced that the park was closed, then people gathered very close to him (not social distancing, less than 2 feet away at some points).

3.  He apologized about having to tell people it was closed.

4.  He explained that the city closed the park.  The city could close the park anytime they wanted, they did not give him a reason why it was closed.  He referred them to the Mayor if they had problems.  They decided to argue.  He said he COULD charge people but did NOT want to.  He did not want to issue citations.  He said he was frustrated with having to close the park and it did not make sense to him, but the city had ordinances that allowed them to close the park.  If they had issues, talk to the Mayor.  The City had decided to close the parks and he was to charge people with trespassing if they went in the park.  He did not do this and told them he did not want to and offered to let them leave.

5.  3 Minutes prior he told them that he was did not want to charge them with trespassing but this is what he was ordered to do.  They could have left at this point but decided to argue the point.  He even had another man defending him telling them the virus stayed for up to 72 hours, and then the idiots thought to say that it didn't last on plastic in stores for 72 hours (guess what genius's...it actually DOES last that long on plastic in Walmart.  Walmart has been sterilizing at night to try to clean the plastic as best they can as well as any other infected areas (who knows how well or not they are doing so).

6.  At a minute and a half to the end of the video he tells them he has asked nicely several times.  He is asking them one more time...please go.  (note, he was ordered to charge them if they trespassed the City ordinance and DID NOT DO THIS originally.  Technically he was already disobeying, but there is the idea of police discretion.  He was using his discretion in hopes that people would hopefully be peaceful about it.  At this point he has given them several chances.

7. He then detains her after she continues to argue that she should be allowed to stay at the park.

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3 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Watching the whole video.

1.  It appeared the Police officer actually taped off the park.  The people didn't know exactly why it was taped off (it was with police tape apparently, it could have been a crime scene for all they knew), they just decided to rip the tape down.  They didn't just leave it on the ground though, there seems to have been a statue that they then wrapped the police tape all around.

2.  When he came he announced that the park was closed, then people gathered very close to him (not social distancing, less than 2 feet away at some points).

3.  He apologized about having to tell people it was closed.

4.  He explained that the city closed the park.  The city could close the park anytime they wanted, they did not give him a reason why it was closed.  He referred them to the Mayor if they had problems.  They decided to argue.  He said he COULD charge people but did NOT want to.  He did not want to issue citations.  He said he was frustrated with having to close the park and it did not make sense to him, but the city had ordinances that allowed them to close the park.  If they had issues, talk to the Mayor.  The City had decided to close the parks and he was to charge people with trespassing if they went in the park.  He did not do this and told them he did not want to and offered to let them leave.

5.  3 Minutes prior he told them that he was did not want to charge them with trespassing but this is what he was ordered to do.  They could have left at this point but decided to argue the point.  He even had another man defending him telling them the virus stayed for up to 72 hours, and then the idiots thought to say that it didn't last on plastic in stores for 72 hours (guess what genius's...it actually DOES last that long on plastic in Walmart.  Walmart has been sterilizing at night to try to clean the plastic as best they can as well as any other infected areas (who knows how well or not they are doing so).

6.  At a minute and a half to the end of the video he tells them he has asked nicely several times.  He is asking them one more time...please go.  (note, he was ordered to charge them if they trespassed the City ordinance and DID NOT DO THIS originally.  Technically he was already disobeying, but there is the idea of police discretion.  He was using his discretion in hopes that people would hopefully be peaceful about it.  At this point he has given them several chances.

7. He then detains her after she continues to argue that she should be allowed to stay at the park.

100% correct.  

He was professional and gave her every out possible. She was the problem, not him. 

Edited by MormonGator

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9 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Can we at least blame the mayor 10%? :please:

Believe me PC, I'm sympathetic (big time, actually. And I think @Midwest LDS would agree with me*) to encroaching big government. And I'm an absolutist for individual liberty. But I'm not an anarchist or someone who just throws words around. The mayor was doing their best to protect their citizens-even if I disagreed with what they did. 

* I only dragged @Midwest LDS in because him and I have had long conversations about government/politics, and he knows my stance on most issues. 

Hope I didn't offend you my friend!  

Edited by MormonGator

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Believe me PC, I'm sympathetic (big time, actually. And I think @Midwest LDS would agree with me*) to encroaching big government. And I'm an absolutist for individual liberty. But I'm not an anarchist or someone who just throws words around. The mayor was doing their best to protect their citizens-even if I disagreed with what they did. 

* I only dragged @Midwest LDS in because him and I have had long conversations about government/politics.

Hope I didn't offend you my friend!  

Individual freedoms must be protected, and I'm a strong literalist when it comes to the Constitution. That being said that woman was practically begging to be arrested.

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Just now, Midwest LDS said:

Individual freedoms must be protected, and I'm a strong literalist when it comes to the Constitution. That being said that woman was practically begging to be arrested.

My thoughts totally, almost verbatim.

And thank you! 

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52 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Honestly, where are the adults???

Let's see...

52 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

pro-opening folks are just trying to prop up POTUS

False.

52 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

--and have blood on their hands.

Also false.

52 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

the closure folks are willing to bankrupt businesses and starve children because of their blind hatred of POTUS.

True.

I think that answers the question.

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42 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Tyrants give order they do not follow orders.  Following orders is not what tyrants do so if orders are bad - the real problem is with those creating them.  In short - I think that following orders is a great excuse - unless you are not really following orders but making them up as you go.

This is an excellent point.

If a police officer were to decide on his own whom to arrest and whom to leave alone for committing the same crime, or what laws to enforce and which laws to not enforce, after they've gone through established processes, he's basically taking the law into his own hands.

The entire idea behind the Constitution was that it would be better to have a few tyrants with a lot of power counter-acting each other as opposed to a million little tyrants exercising power over their little realms.

As much as I like the idea of civil disobedience for unjust laws, one must understand that the right to civil disobedience does have a price.  And that price is often that some people will get arrested -- and sometimes killed.

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9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Let's see... False. Also false. True. I think that answers the question.

Washington Times and Washington Examiner. The Federalist. Fox News & Opinion. National Review Online, etc.  Yeah...that's catnip you're offering me. Don't think we'll all be getting along anytime soon, though. . . . :::sigh:::

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35 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

There where two officers. One was apologetic and the other one was barking orders, and following orders that appear contrary to the law.

You can dislike the officer's demeanor, that does not change the fact that the city can close it's park.  The lady was trespassing and failed to leave.

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As one who deeply shares the concern that many have of our losing the free exercise of our rights, I must say that I'm pretty unimpressed by someone who goes to a park for the apparent intent of causing trouble, who is told by a police officer that the city (who has the legal management of the public park) has closed the park and are asked to leave, and who simply refuse to leave and instead give the cops an earful. Even if their actions were justified in such a case—which they are not—surely anyone with an ounce of sense can figure out a better way to go about things than intentional confrontation. It's like everyone has turned into Democrats, protesting and squatting and whining to try to prove some idiotic point.

There is a time to stand up for oneself and the exercise of one's rights. The time period when a cop is explaining to you that a public park has been closed down and will you please leave now is not that time.

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19 minutes ago, pam said:

And I'm sure these police officers are frustrated just for the fact they are having to arrest someone ...

Seriously. 
 

Just having to fill out the paperwork for the arrest would have irritated me. 
 

IF she was hoping to actually get the law changed, her fight would have been at city hall, not with some police officer at a park who has no ability to change the legality of anything. 
 

Reading the story makes me think she got the 15 minutes of fame she was hoping for. 

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7 hours ago, Vort said:

It's like everyone has turned into Democrats, protesting and squatting and whining to try to prove some idiotic point.

And believe me, the irony is absolutely not lost on us. 🍿🍿🍿

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20 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

Individual freedoms must be protected, and I'm a strong literalist when it comes to the Constitution. That being said that woman was practically begging to be arrested.

She even put her hands behind her back for him.  Then tried to pull away when he called her bluff.  They also should have had a plan to take care of her kids instead of crying about it after the fact. Did they expect the officer to say "Oh, your kids are here, I guess I can't arrest/detain you"

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All this reminds me of a little story.  BYU build a grand arena for their basketball games.  There was a wonderful man named JW Marriott that donated a lot of money so the arena could be built so the building was named after him and was called the Marriott Activity Center.  Because it was such a big arena (biggest in the country at the time) the students started calling it the BIG MAC.  For those that may not know, Brother Marriott started JW's which at the time competed with McDonald's that had a hamburger called the big mac.  So of course that would never do - so the building became the Marriott Center.  But the best part of all this is still coming.  

At the opening of the Marriott Center there was a big celebration along with the first game and of course Brother Marriott was the honored guest.  Somebody, in all their wisdom directed Brother Marriott park his car close to an entrance that was marked no parking.  He was allowed to park there anyway because he was the special honored guest.  However, while Brother Marriott was enjoying all the festivities - some other, very intelligent individual anxious to use the little authority they were given - had Brother Marriott's car impounded and towed away.

I am sure that somewhere in this story is a lesson for just about anybody - I hope you all liked it.  Someday when all this COVID 19 is over; it is quite likely we all will have a story with a lesson - if the next generation is interested.

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

However, while Brother Marriott was enjoying all the festivities - some other, very intelligent individual anxious to use the little authority they were given - had Brother Marriott's car impounded and towed away.

BYU "lot officers" are BYU students who write parking tickets and help with traffic control and radio communications at games, and are (or at least were, when I was a student at BYU) often derisively called "fake cops" by many BYU students. As a former lot officer, let me defend this "very intelligent individual anxious to use the little authority they [sic] were given". Unless there was an Official sticker on the car, there is no way a lot officer can know the car is legally parked. And lot officers are (or at least were in 1988) under strict instruction to ticket all vehicles parked in wrong stalls, and to tow away any vehicle parked outside a legitimate stall or in a handicapped stall.

Now, if the car had an Official parking pass or sticker, that's different. Those vehicles can park literally anywhere on campus that does not present an immediate hazard. They can park on the ASB lawn if they want, or across a sidewalk. The basic rule is (or was), You Don't Ticket Vehicles With Official Passes. So if that was the case, then the lot officer screwed up. But that's highly unlikely; the Official pass is the first thing the lot officer looks for*. So it's more likely that whoever parked the car neglected to call the BYU Police and tell them what was going on, which would then have been relayed to the lot officer. It's also possible, though again unlikely, that the BYU PD dispatch didn't contact the lot officer. Odds are that the lot officer did nothing wrong.

*Not actually true. The first thing a lot officer looks for is a parking ticket on the vehicle. If there's a ticket already on the vehicle, there is an approximately 100% chance that the lot officer will immediately go to the car and check the citation. This is because many people, having once received a citation, then believe they have been given a magic Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card, allowing them to park wherever they wish without consequence. Doesn't work that way, though. If you want to be absolutely sure that a lot officer WILL come and check your car and WILL give you a ticket if you're parked in the wrong stall, put an old ticket under your windshield wiper. When you return to your car, you can be almost sure that a brand new ticket will be tucked right alongside your old one.

Edited by Vort

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