Will i have dificulties trying to find a girl at BYU if i didn't serve a mission ?


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2 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'm going to ask an ignorant question, since my church has the opposite problem. We sometimes joke about being the Assemblies of Girls, 'cause so many non-married adults are female, within the church. So, while I understand that many in the 18-22 year range might hold out for the ideal partner, post-college I suspect that most singles are just looking for someone that can share love with them and uphold the same religious values. 

Statistical brain refusing to be quiet: statistically, there are more active LDS Christian ladies out there then men.  Pretty much the same as any other faith group.

2 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

So, if OP is post-22, does it really matter so much that the convert with some medical issues was not properly situated to serve a mission?

I got several thoughts on here, and they are disjointed, so I'll just rattle them off in no particular order--

- It should not remotely mattered is a person (male or female) did not serve a mission, assuming that they are now actually devoted to the Gospel.  Extra shouldn't matter if they could not serve for a valid reason (like not being a member of the church at the time, medical issues, etc).  It extra extra shouldn't matter once you're past the early 20's (as the more recent stuff should be shining through).

- Going on a mission and serving with your whole self (aka not being a warm body) is an act of devotion to the Lord, and could indeed be a positive mark for a optional spouse.  However, then people (being the faulty creatures we are) can get this idea "oh, he'd didn't serve, he must be a slacker, not worth my time- I want somebody whom really love the Lord."  It's a faulty human thought process and should NOT be.  But some people do fall into that trap.  

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27 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

statistically, there are more active LDS Christian ladies out there then men.  Pretty much the same as any other faith group.

I kinda figured. Now BYU is an outlier, in that the makeup is almost 50/50 m/f. Most Evangelical Christian schools--especially the honors colleges/programs--are 60%+ female. None of this really matters though. It only takes the right one--that one Heavenly Father smiles and winks at you about--to make the right match. :animatedthumbsup:

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Just now, prisonchaplain said:

I kinda figured. Now BYU is an outlier, in that the makeup is almost 50/50 m/f. Most Evangelical Christian schools--especially the honors colleges/programs--are 60%+ female. None of this really matters though. It only takes the right one--that one Heavenly Father smiles and winks at you about--to make the right match. :animatedthumbsup:

BYU's Admissions department actively forces the gender ratio to be ~50/50.  The actual application ratio is something like 70% female, so it's actually a lot harder to get in if you're female.

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58 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

BYU's Admissions department actively forces the gender ratio to be ~50/50.  The actual application ratio is something like 70% female, so it's actually a lot harder to get in if you're female.

IIRC, even though the BYU student body is theoretically 50/50, proportionally many more of the male students are married, than the female students.  So the single males are still significantly outnumbered by the single females.

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42 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

IIRC, even though the BYU student body is theoretically 50/50, proportionally many more of the male students are married, than the female students.  So the single males are still significantly outnumbered by the single females.

As I recall my personal experience at BYU - it did seem that 90% of the single young men were trying to date 10% of the single ladies (and vice versa).  I leave this problem up to the reader to realize all the confusion, chaos, disappointment and distraction from studies that this caused.

 

The Traveler

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11 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

So, if OP is post-22, does it really matter so much that the convert with some medical issues was not properly situated to serve a mission?

I wouldn't think so, in a normal ward population.  He's not searching in the normal population, though.  He's looking in the 18-24 year range at a college.  That's why I said it depends on what kind of girl he's looking for.

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Guest MormonGator
11 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Most Evangelical Christian schools--especially the honors colleges/programs--are 60%+ female.

Why is that? Just curious, nothing more. 

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Why is that? Just curious, nothing more. 

The short answer is that I do not know. My guess is that the culture has discouraged manhood while celebrating the rise and empowerment of females. Perhaps some of that has seeped into the church. Promise Keepers seemed so necessary, but was virulently attacked by feminists. Churches gradually stopped encouraging men to go. There were a few 'biblical manhood' type books in the 1990s and 2000s. You don't seem them anymore. Rev. Mark Driscoll, founder of Mars Hill Churches, eventually resigned, because of accusations he was too, well... masculine (very strong leadership that some considered disrespectful and even bullying). I really do not know, but I suspect that this is not the most promising time to be growing up as a young Christian man. The secular schools are probably similar in demographics.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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2 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

The short answer is that I do not know. My guess is that the culture has discouraged manhood while celebrating the rise and empowerment of females. Perhaps some of that has seeped into the church. Promise Keepers seemed so necessary, but was virulently attacked by feminists. Churches gradually stopped encouraging men to go. There were a few 'biblical manhood' type books in the 1990s and 2000s. You don't seem them anymore. Rev. Mark Driscoll, founder of Mars Hill Churches, eventually resigned, because of accusations he was too, well... masculine (very strong leadership that some considered disrespectful and even bullying). I really do not know, but I suspect that this is not the most promising time to be growing up as a young Christian man. I suspect the secular schools are similar in demographics.

Secular schools are also female-dominated by in large, especially the Freshman classes.  Demographics point to it being the result of so many "Go girls!" programs, while simultaneously being more slack for boys and instead letting video-game addiction or other things take over.

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53 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

The short answer is that I do not know. My guess is that the culture has discouraged manhood while celebrating the rise and empowerment of females. Perhaps some of that has seeped into the church. Promise Keepers seemed so necessary, but was virulently attacked by feminists. Churches gradually stopped encouraging men to go. There were a few 'biblical manhood' type books in the 1990s and 2000s. You don't seem them anymore. Rev. Mark Driscoll, founder of Mars Hill Churches, eventually resigned, because of accusations he was too, well... masculine (very strong leadership that some considered disrespectful and even bullying). I really do not know, but I suspect that this is not the most promising time to be growing up as a young Christian man. The secular schools are probably similar in demographics.

Fascinating. Thank you. I read somewhere that, generally speaking, women tend to slightly more religious than men. Yes, it’s just a generality, there are exceptions. I think that might have something to do with it. 
 

 

49 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Secular schools are also female-dominated by in large, especially the Freshman classes.  Demographics point to it being the result of so many "Go girls!" programs, while simultaneously being more slack for boys and instead letting video-game addiction or other things take over.

I don’t think video games have anything go do with it. 

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13 minutes ago, Fether said:

I played more video games than my roommates did by a large margin. I also had a better scholarship. 

More video games = better grades

The anti gaming attitude that so many people have comes from fear/ignorance/ego. It's a hobby, that simple. Some people game too much, but some people also camp too much, hunt too much, fish too much, work on their cars too much, shop too much...
 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Fascinating. Thank you. I read somewhere that, generally speaking, women tend to slightly more religious than men.

This might be the deciding factor. I just checked Arizona State University, and the ratio is 52:48 (f/m). So, Grand Canyon University, which is Evangelical Christian, and located in Phoenix, is about 60:40. I always warn my freshman daughter, who attends there, to be careful, that the ASU boys will be swooping down to GCU, looking for some good Christian girls . . .

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2 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

This might be the deciding factor. I just checked Arizona State University, and the ratio is 52:48 (f/m). So, Grand Canyon University, which is Evangelical Christian, and located in Phoenix, is about 60:40. I always warn my freshman daughter, who attends there, to be careful, that the ASU boys will be swooping down to GCU, looking for some good Christian girls . . .

It's interesting as to how this will affect the Evangelicals in the future. No one will argue that mainstream Protestantism (The ELCA, Anglican church, United Methodist) isn't theologically liberal, and some historians of theology say it's partially (not totally) because they ordained females to leadership/priesthood roles. No, that's not the only reason, but it's perhaps one of them. I wonder how this will change Evangelical worship. 

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I don’t think video games have anything go do with it. 

 

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

The anti gaming attitude that so many people have comes from fear/ignorance/ego. It's a hobby, that simple. Some people game too much, but some people also camp too much, hunt too much, fish too much, work on their cars too much, shop too much...
 

Point of clarification: I'm not implying that video games are remotely responsible for people on any scale not going to college.  I'm a regular gamer myself.

But when a child isn't encouraged to engage the world and instead just be entertained by hobbies (whatever the hobby may be), that's a problem. 

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2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Point of clarification: I'm not implying that video games are remotely responsible for people on any scale not going to college.  I'm a regular gamer myself.

 

Oh I agree, sorry if it came out that I was describing you!

 

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 But when a child isn't encouraged to engage the world and instead just be entertained by hobbies (whatever the hobby may be), that's a problem. 

We agree again, 100%. When gaming becomes your master instead of your servant, that's a problem. 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

It's interesting as to how this will affect the Evangelicals in the future. No one will argue that mainstream Protestantism (The ELCA, Anglican church, United Methodist) isn't theologically liberal, and some historians of theology say it's partially (not totally) because they ordained females to leadership/priesthood roles. No, that's not the only reason, but it's perhaps one of them. I wonder how this will change Evangelical worship. 

I suppose it depends on the denomination or branch. For example, for the large, non-denominational churches, the worship team has become almost as important as the minister. Many worship leaders give mini-devotions during their services--especially if they have concerts. Indeed, it is not uncommon for the main person to be an ordained minister. My own church is an outlier. We are socially and theologically very conservative (with both Evangelical and Fundamentalist impulses), yet we have always ordained women as ministers, believing such to be a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the end times (your manservants and maidservants shall prophesy [sometimes understood to mean preach]). Still, I'm not sure what the long-term effect will be. Certainly, we'll have well-educated female leadership. Still, I would guess that the schools of theology would be lopsided in the other direction--mostly male.

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2 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

For example, for the large, non-denominational churches, the worship team has become almost as important as the minister

I've been the large non- denominational megachurch in Ocala a few times. That was something I noticed about it too!  

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BTW, the rise in prominence of worship teams and of corporate worship itself is likely more positive than negative. We preachers were never supposed to be that important. After all, to minister is to serve. Similarly, if the worship team is doing right they lead us into the presence of God. We worship, often with joy, sometimes with awe. In a sense we may be rediscovering the type of worship done in the Old Testament. Micah wasn't too impressed, but Heavenly Father seemed good with it. :sing:

Edited by prisonchaplain
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Several thoughts on the most recent posts in this topic

#1 - Curious, I looked up our own university's ratio of boys to girls.  There are more girls than boys here.  It's about a 45/55 split. 

#2 - Regarding video games, I am a grave and wrongful sinner in that I have many grandchildren and have offered them many opportunities for them to play video games.  In fact, at times, it may be one of the big things they come to our house to do.  I have several Xbox ones (we actually upgraded one to an Xbox One X), a wii-u, several Playstation 4s, and now in recent months a switch, all for them to play on when they stop by.  I also now have my own TV in my own room so I do not have to struggle with them when I want to watch the news or some other channel such as ESPN.  I suppose I have greatly contributed to their downfall as students in that way, though generally they only visit on weekends and during the summer. 

Due to the recent pandemic we have had no visits overall from them (probably much to their weeping and wailing I'd imagine) and it does not look like we will get any of them soon to keep my wife company (normally I do research during the summer and they keep my wife company, though this summer it is greatly delayed and shortened and may not happen at all...we will see).  We have had my some family weathering this viral storm together with us and their children have amply enjoyed the video game fiesta's they have had.  In that, I suppose I have contributed to their delinquency.

As far as my students I have taught over the years...I do not know.  I have yet to have one come to me and say they did not turn in assignments (or more rather papers that they were to write or a test they missed) or were late on them due to playing video games, but I assume that this would be something they would also be wise enough not to admit as it probably would not impress me.  I have had various other excuses over the years as they beg for mercy on their grades and otherwise, but not video games at least as I recall off the top of my head.

#3 - I came from the Catholics into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that  has probably tempered my understanding of women pastors, preachers, and priesthood holders.  In the Bible we read from Paul about women teaching in church and leading in church.  I probably lean towards the direction that there is a specific order that the Lord has in heaven, and that order has given women some divine rights and authorities and the same goes for men.  One of these given to men are the divine investiture in churches and congregations to lead such, as Paul seems to say, or was explained to me as an young Catholic and which I read today, I still interpret much the same way. 

I think as we stray further from the ideals that the Lord has given us and instructed us in, the further we stray from his path and the harder it is to understand his mind.  As we stray further, the more his ways are NOT our ways and we strive to interpret the scriptures differently or change what they say as they offend us and the fake morals we have created unto ourselves.

However, this is not condemning other churches who have chosen to do so, but I see it more as a warning to the Saints (and others who may heed, for example, even as we may not believe as the Catholics do, they still try to hold true to the Biblical commandments in their own way) of what apostasy may look like if we ever choose to go down that route.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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On 5/24/2020 at 8:23 PM, Jane_Doe said:

BYU's Admissions department actively forces the gender ratio to be ~50/50.  The actual application ratio is something like 70% female, so it's actually a lot harder to get in if you're female.

I went to BYU my freshman year, (about 20 years ago) and lived in the Heritage Hall dorms.  All the wards in those dorms were all about about 3 females to 2 males.  Helaman Halls and Deseret Towers might have been split more evenly.

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Back in my college days computer games (and watching Star Trek) were my go to ways of letting my brain "veg." I needed something that allowed me to relax in a way that sleep simply did not offer. So in a sense gaming was actually a help to me in my studies but of course only when done in moderation. Since then I've lost interest in gaming but it served it's purpose back then.

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