The Folk Prophet

Plandemic and 5G conspiracies and...

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...what in the world is going on?! The license to go crazy has gone mainstream.

Seriously. One of my closest friends for the last 20 years sent me the Plandemic video and when I didn't buy off on its full legitimacy immediately he flipped out and cut off our relationship for good. Is this what we're becoming?

I'm only trying to exert the smallest amount of moderation in my views. (Surprise, surprise, I can be moderate in some things.) But apparently any sort of moderation and hoping/waiting for facts is unacceptable any longer.

The kind of things I'm seeing people post on social media and believing whole-hog without evidence is...well, it's truly shocking.

I know there's evil in the world. I know there's evil in government. I know there's evil in big pharm. I know there's evil in capitalism. I know there's evil in socialism. I know there's evil pretty much everywhere. Does that mean I have to buy off on any youtube video that supports someone's particular narrative or I'm the bad guy? Sure...I'm concerned by these evils. I'm much more concerned by the evil that seems to be stewing and brewing in my friends, neighbors, and family. The hatred and bitterness I'm seeing from them on Facebook and the like. We're supposed to be followers of Christ. And we're supposed to be one in Him. We're not supposed to hate each other for not buying off on all the minutia of our particular extreme brand of political think.

Anyhow, I'm not really joining again here, but I do read, and thought the discussion of some of these conspiracies and the like would be interesting. So go for it.

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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Is this what we're becoming?

No, this is just what some people are becoming.  Worldwide crises like these have an impact on people, some of them change.  Sometimes it's a change for the better, a saved marriage here, a loser becomes a motivated winner there.  Some people just get scared and end up believing whackadoodle nonsense because somehow it's the only thing that makes sense to them.

It's ok to think of these last folks charitably.  Some folks just don't have the ability to deal with 85,000 dead, are unable to grasp the context necessary to form rational opinions about reality.   I mean, most of 'em are just stubborn or afraid or willfully ignorant, but a few of them just lack the tools to be anything but wrong.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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I'm with you TFP.  The conspiracy theories and all are getting really old to me right now.  I almost even hate seeing my own brother post anything.  He's gotten as bad as the rest.  

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I'm not sure if anybody here has seen The Video of Ben Affleck going psycho on Sam Harris calling him racist.  Sam recently had an interview (or should I say, I recently saw the interiew, I can't be sure if I paid attention to when that interview was conducted) with Dave Rubin where Dave mentioned that incident and Sam stated that a terrible aftermath of the incident is that although 50% of the audience concluded Ben Affleck is an idiot, a perception he has to figure out to correct, 50% of them came home thinking Sam Harris is a racist and that impression has not changed over the years - all because of Ben Affleck's emotional outburst unprovoked by Harris.  A lot of times these days, that's all it takes.  Some big name persona calling you a label.  And Trump has capitalized on that school yard game because he's better at it than the guys who made it a common thing in public discourse.

Edited by anatess2

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:45 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

...what in the world is going on?! The license to go crazy has gone mainstream.

Seriously. One of my closest friends for the last 20 years sent me the Plandemic video and when I didn't buy off on its full legitimacy immediately he flipped out and cut off our relationship for good. Is this what we're becoming?

I'm only trying to exert the smallest amount of moderation in my views. (Surprise, surprise, I can be moderate in some things.) But apparently any sort of moderation and hoping/waiting for facts is unacceptable any longer.

The kind of things I'm seeing people post on social media and believing whole-hog without evidence is...well, it's truly shocking.

I know there's evil in the world. I know there's evil in government. I know there's evil in big pharm. I know there's evil in capitalism. I know there's evil in socialism. I know there's evil pretty much everywhere. Does that mean I have to buy off on any youtube video that supports someone's particular narrative or I'm the bad guy? Sure...I'm concerned by these evils. I'm much more concerned by the evil that seems to be stewing and brewing in my friends, neighbors, and family. The hatred and bitterness I'm seeing from them on Facebook and the like. We're supposed to be followers of Christ. And we're supposed to be one in Him. We're not supposed to hate each other for not buying off on all the minutia of our particular extreme brand of political think.

Anyhow, I'm not really joining again here, but I do read, and thought the discussion of some of these conspiracies and the like would be interesting. So go for it.

I think there is much plausibility to the claims made in the Plandemic video. You have to do some due diligence to verify Judy Mikovits’ claims, but it is there. One has to wonder, why Would YouTube and Facebook go to such great lengths to have this video removed, unless there was some truth to it? There is plenty of garbage on YouTube and Facebook, but they consider this enough of a threat to have it removed? It doesn’t make sense.

However, whether or not you believe the claims made in the video, it doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist to realize that something doesn’t add up here. This whole COVID-19 ordeal, and the government’s reaction to it, has never made any sense. Since when do we quarantine healthy people? And since when do we shutdown the economy, especially for months at a time? It’s unprecedented, unconstitutional, un-American, and just plain idiotic.

 

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Guest MormonGator
On 5/15/2020 at 12:07 AM, pam said:

I'm with you TFP.  The conspiracy theories and all are getting really old to me right now.  I almost even hate seeing my own brother post anything.  He's gotten as bad as the rest.  

I had a philosophy teacher tell us once "I can come up with a theory that says we were all created five minutes ago with wrinkles on our faces, food in our stomachs, and memories from events that never happened. And people would believe it." 

Edited by MormonGator

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31 minutes ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

This whole COVID-19 ordeal, and the government’s reaction to it, has never made any sense.

Both the existence and details of this virus, and the all the different national/federal/state/local government's various reactions to it, have all made perfect sense to me...

 

Quote

Since when do we quarantine healthy people?

Since we got a new virus with a high R0 value, where people can be carriers for days and not have any symptoms.

 

Quote

And since when do we shutdown the economy, especially for months at a time?

Since we got a new virus with a high R0 value, where people can be carriers for days and not have any symptoms, and the thing has a higher fatality rate than the usual flu.

No really, high R0 value, asymptomatic carriers, and higher death rate.  Those are three things.  They're the things that make everything make perfect sense.  If you don't understand or believe one or more of them, I suppose you could have your beliefs about it.  But I both understand and believe all 3, and it all makes sense to me.

 

Quote

It’s unprecedented, unconstitutional, un-American, and just plain idiotic.

Governors shutting things down, doesn't have a single thing to do with the federal constitution.  It has to do with the individual states' constitutions.  I wish more people would understand this important point.  State governments don't get their rights from the constitution, they get them from the people.  

Best dang thing I've seen during this whole thing: A reporter asked Trump something like "You just said that you wish more states would X, and yet there are reports that some states are not X-ing.  Why doesn't your administration do more to make these governors X?"   Trump replied "Well, there's this thing called the constitution..."

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14 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Since we got a new virus with a high R0 value, where people can be carriers for days and not have any symptoms.

Add to that the information superhighway and we just now created the design template for how to imprison people in their own homes...

It's great to realize that Americans can mouth liberty all they want but they'll give it up that easily.

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Oh, I guess it's important to stay clear on terms, and I need to clarify.  I keep hearing about quarantining healthy people, meaning imposing isolation.  I haven't seen any of it in my state.  Colorado had "safe at home" imploring that everyone stay home.  We closed businesses and some public areas.  They asked us to do everything we needed to do within 10 miles of home.  But there was no imposed isolation.  

I was using the term in a broader sense of self-quarantining, self-isolating, sheltering-in-place.  To an extent, my family is in our 8th week of doing this, whether some government agency was asking or telling us to.  Both wife and I are in higher risk categories, it makes sense that we do what is feasible to keep from getting this thing.  That means working from home, minimizing contact with others.  I shrug and start finishing a room in the basement that will become a man cave.  

And just because I understand all the various responses I hear about, doesn't mean I agree with all of them.  @Jedi_Nephite was expressing ignorance, not disagreement.  I'm finding it easy enough to understand why people/governments are doing what they do.  Was trying to help him understand it too.  Can't really disagree with something you just can't wrap your mind around...

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26 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh, I guess it's important to stay clear on terms, and I need to clarify.  I keep hearing about quarantining healthy people, meaning imposing isolation.  I haven't seen any of it in my state.  

We didn't do that in Florida but we did close down businesses except "essential" businesses with "what essential means" dictated by government.  We also have a bunch of karens, usually, teetering on elderly who shouldn't be out and about policing young people.  And we have police arresting lone surfers.  Basically a bunch of draconian idiots.

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Whenever someone starts worrying about RFID tracking or govt chipping it's citizens or whatever, they need to realize they're about 5 years too late. 

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/cellphone-tracking-shows-colorado-residents-mostly-stayed-home-during-health-order/?fbclid=IwAR3MeavtWsvKQ71fVx1UWT4uoh80a4fZuTIy_VVE1hUb4r5VTSb67KBfzjU

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Guest MormonGator
10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Whenever someone starts worrying about RFID tracking or govt chipping it's citizens or whatever, they need to realize they're about 5 years too late. 

 

It's also a little ridiculous. I've seen a few people (one women in particular) who rant about being "tracked by the government"....yet she posts pictures of her daughter from her Facebook account every day. From her iPhone. Listing her city. And her daughters school. And where they eat dinner when they go out to eat. 

Yes dear, continue to worry about the government "tracking" you. 

Edited by MormonGator

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21 hours ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

However, whether or not you believe the claims made in the video, it doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist to realize that something doesn’t add up here. This whole COVID-19 ordeal, and the government’s reaction to it, has never made any sense. Since when do we quarantine healthy people? And since when do we shutdown the economy, especially for months at a time? It’s unprecedented, unconstitutional, un-American, and just plain idiotic.

 

I think this article here provides a useful contribution to this discussion. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-18/coronavirus-isolation-economy-social-distancing-cost-and-benefit/12258364

"Coronavirus isolation is hurting the economy, so should we keep social distancing? Top economists have answers"

The article summarises the views of 47 prominent economists who consider whether or not the economic costs of social distancing outweight the benefits. It comes from the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) which is a wholly government owned national broadcaster, which I think has a bit of a left leaning bias. The ABC lifted it from The Converation, which I have never read, so I can't comment on whether or not it is biased. The study on which the article is based asked 47 economists whether they strongly agreed, agreed, disagreed, strongly disagreed, or were uncertain about, the following proposition: 

The benefits to Australian society of maintaining social distancing measures sufficient to keep R less than one for COVID-19 are likely to exceed the costs

 23 strongly agreed, 11 agreed, 4 were uncertain, 8  disagreed and one strongly disagreed. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

The article summarises the views of 47 prominent economists

So at least 48 views, then.

I am deeply unimpressed by economists, given that e.g. Paul Krugman is among their ranks. I hold economics in perhaps marginally higher esteem than sociology. Which is to say, I wouldn't trust them to do much more than empty my trash.

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40 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I think this article here provides a useful contribution to this discussion. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-18/coronavirus-isolation-economy-social-distancing-cost-and-benefit/12258364

"Coronavirus isolation is hurting the economy, so should we keep social distancing? Top economists have answers"

The article summarises the views of 47 prominent economists who consider whether or not the economic costs of social distancing outweight the benefits. It comes from the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) which is a wholly government owned national broadcaster, which I think has a bit of a left leaning bias. The ABC lifted it from The Converation, which I have never read, so I can't comment on whether or not it is biased. The study on which the article is based asked 47 economists whether they strongly agreed, agreed, disagreed, strongly disagreed, or were uncertain about, the following proposition: 

The benefits to Australian society of maintaining social distancing measures sufficient to keep R less than one for COVID-19 are likely to exceed the costs

 23 strongly agreed, 11 agreed, 4 were uncertain, 8  disagreed and one strongly disagreed. 

 

 

I wonder what Hayek and Friedman would say about the lockdown. 

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19 minutes ago, Vort said:

I am deeply unimpressed by economists,

Do you feel that way about Thomas Sowell? Adam Smith? Conservative economists? Just curious. 

I do find it odd when conservatives are ignorant about/ "troubled by" economics. Given that so many who study economics lean towards the right. That's what happened to me, actually. 

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"The dismal science" is a derogatory alternative name for economics coined by the Victorian historian Thomas Carlyle in the 19th century (originally in the context of his argument to reintroduce slavery in the West Indies). The term drew a contrast with the then-familiar use of the phrase "gay science" to refer to song and verse writing.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dismal_science

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26 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

"The dismal science" is a derogatory alternative name for economics coined by the Victorian historian Thomas Carlyle in the 19th century (originally in the context of his argument to reintroduce slavery in the West Indies). The term drew a contrast with the then-familiar use of the phrase "gay science" to refer to song and verse writing.[1]

 

Actually, economics deals with reality. Just because people don't understand reality or are afraid of it's conclusions hardly means it's "dismal". 

IE-Raising the minimum wage is a terrible idea. There are lots of reasons for it. The majority of economists (it was taught to me in basic economics) have grave concerns about it. But, because it sounds nice and cuddly, people ignore economic reality and decide to do it anyway. 

I could also talk about how rent controls are terrible, most economists agree with it, but people still support it because it sounds nice and cuddly. 

I could also talk about how automation saves jobs and most economists agree with it, but people are against it because it sounds nice and cuddly. 

I could go on. It's almost always people on the left who bash economics because they don't understand it. Maybe conservatives do it now? 

Edited by MormonGator

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10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

One of my oldest friends is just waiting for Corona to kill both Trump and Pence. And he will feel justified in believing that guy with the "Ezdras's Eagle" theory from the Apocrypha.

Don't you know Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine and thus will remain Covid free???

:)

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