Carborendum

Faked Protests

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The LDS ones were a little more subtle.

I was in the interview process when they got to the part in my resume where my education came up (BYU).  I remember two of them clearly.  I don't clearly remember the third one, so I can't tell you the details of that one.  But I remember it being the exact same feeling as the other two.

Essentially, when BYU came up in the discussion people started sounding nervous.  Their eyes literally shifted as if hiding something.  They tripped over words a bit.  Questions were no longer technical, but about how I would get along with people.  Apparently they had forgotten that they already covered that in the first interview. …

I don't doubt your words, but I was surprised. I remember hearing back in the late 1980s that law enforcement agencies, including the CIA, liked to hire BYU grads. The agencies figure these candidates are often bilingual and they are not likely to become compromised due to drug/alcohol use/abuse.

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19 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I don't doubt your words, but I was surprised. I remember hearing back in the late 1980s that law enforcement agencies, including the CIA, liked to hire BYU grads. The agencies figure these candidates are often bilingual and they are not likely to become compromised due to drug/alcohol use/abuse.

Yes, and they are pretty smart for recognizing all that.  But as I mentioned, I found these other guys pretty stupid for taking their own position.

Edited by Carborendum

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6 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I don't doubt your words, but I was surprised. I remember hearing back in the late 1980s that law enforcement agencies, including the CIA, liked to hire BYU grads. The agencies figure these candidates are often bilingual and they are not likely to become compromised due to drug/alcohol use/abuse.

I heard the opposite. That some government agencies don't like hiring BYU grads because they can be naive and too trusting. No, not an insult, just what I heard. Flame on. 

Edited by MormonGator

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On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 7:23 PM, Godless said:

seeing 57 riot police in Buffalo resign in solidarity with two officers who shoved a 75 year-old man (who fell and started bleeding from his head), I'm really having a hard time believing that good cops are the majority. 

I guess I'll be counted among the bad ones then. The officer who killed Floyd (by all appearances) is a piece of work. He and his 3 peers deserve justice. Yeah, I hope there is a chaplain who can help them make peace with God. However, the 75-year old was a professional protester. The officers had been told to clear the area. In the video, there are no civilians around this guy. Police are ordering him to leave. He's waiving his arms with an item in one hand. An officer pushes him back and he falls, hitting his head on cement. Blood comes out of his ear. Tragic, no doubt. However, did the officer intend to push him down, or simply to force him back? Did he really want this guy to hit his head? Is it possible that the protester wanted "martyr" status, and chose to dead-drop? Of course I can't prove that--anymore than anyone can prove the officer wanted to hurt this guy. He was following orders to clear the area and appears to have used minimal force. His superiors threw him under the bus, and his fellow officers recognized a political railroad job when they saw it. Just because the George Floyd killing was clearly wrong does not mean every law enforcement response to demonstrations is.

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3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I heard the opposite. That some government agencies don't like hiring BYU grads because they can be naive and too trusting. No, not an insult, just what I heard. Flame on. 

I wouldn't be surprised if both assumptions aren't made, depending on the day of the week, and who's wielding the accept/reject stamp.

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10 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I wouldn't be surprised if both assumptions aren't made, depending on the day of the week, and who's wielding the accept/reject stamp.

I wouldn't be surprised either.  But it would probably depend on the job.  I think Mormons would make lousy spies.

But my two brothers-in-law work for government contractors.  They say that there is a HUGE percentage of Saints working on pretty much every project they win -- along with many other contractors.  If memory serves, their estimates were around 30% in a state that only had about a 5% LDS presence.

My stake president at the time also worked for one of these government contractors. He confirmed the estimated LDS presence.  And he specifically said that "the LDS lifestyle tends to be conducive to the requirements of employment with contracts that require clearance for Top Secret clearance.  He mentioned: stable marriage, no gambling or criminal backgrounds.  no drug or alcohol problems, life experience beyond college life...

And it makes sense.  We also need to point out that although this is disproportionately in favor of LDS employees, 2/3 of them were still non-LDS.

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19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I wouldn't be surprised either.  But it would probably depend on the job.  I think Mormons would make lousy spies.

 

Agree with both you and @prisonchaplain. It wasn't a pejorative, and for all I know it could be way off. It's just what I heard . 

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On 6/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, Traveler said:

Many more people die from automobile accidents in the USA than any other cause including COVID-19.  It is true that I often travel by bicycle - but this is not the reason.  The point here is that you are much more likely to be killed or kill someone while driving. 

And as a result, we have infinitely more rules, penalties, restrictions and limitations on our liberty pertaining to driving than we do on on matters pertaining to covid 19 and we spend huge amounts on enforcing these rules related to driving, but everyone accepts those rules, penalties and restrictions as just a normal part of life without questioning them.

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55 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

And as a result, we have infinitely more rules, penalties, restrictions and limitations on our liberty pertaining to driving than we do on on matters pertaining to covid 19 ...

The suspicion that drives us to frustration, if not anger, is that state governments controlled by Democrats are much stronger in restricting religious gatherings, yet were very quick to allow the George Floyd protests. The Seattle Times just published an op-ed saying that protesters must not be blamed if COVID-19 returns. This is an anti-black disease, and it's the corporations that deserve blame. Meanwhile, of course … Christians are so whiny and demanding about their precious little church services that they are willing to see their neighbors DIE!!! from disease. :huh:

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10 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

The suspicion that drives us to frustration, if not anger, is that state governments controlled by Democrats are much stronger in restricting religious gatherings, yet were very quick to allow the George Floyd protests. The Seattle Times just published an op-ed saying that protesters must not be blamed if COVID-19 returns. This is an anti-black disease, and it's the corporations that deserve blame. Meanwhile, of course … Christians are so whiny and demanding about their precious little church services that they are willing to see their neighbors DIE!!! from disease. :huh:

It's complete madness how the left views this. Crowds going to church are bad. Crowds destroying private property? Nothing to see folks, move along. 

But, it's funny how some on the right are now worried about crowds spreading the disease. Two weeks ago, these were the same people screaming at those of advocating  wearing masks. 

 

Edited by MormonGator

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

But, it's funny how some on the right are now worried about crowds spreading the disease. Two weeks ago, these were the same people screaming at those of advocating  wearing masks. 

 

Funny...but explainable. Older people were always more supportive of caution--and most older people are conservative. Second, many Republicans are not deeply concerned about wearing masks. We're just angry that it was supposed to be important until a liberal cause celebre arose. I suppose it is inevitable that we will be called hypocritical for pointing out liberal hypocrisy. :whistling:

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3 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Older people were always more supportive of caution-

No they aren't, most "older people" thought that Covid was "nothing worse than the flu". Most older people rant and rave about people trying to control their lives by requiring you to wear a mask. I'm from rural Florida dude, everyone around me is old. I'm totally fine with that, doesn't bother me in the least for the record. 

4 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

We're just angry that it was supposed to be important until a liberal cause celebre arose

And because of that, suddenly, wearing a mask or advocating for it means you are part of some deep state, "liberal" agenda. 

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8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

No they aren't, most "older people" thought that Covid was "nothing worse than the flu". Most older people rant and rave about people trying to control their lives by requiring you to wear a mask. I'm from rural Florida dude, everyone around me is old. I'm totally fine with that, doesn't bother me in the least for the record. 

And because of that, suddenly, wearing a mask or advocating for it means you are part of some deep state, "liberal" agenda. 

I'm a recalling an article I read at Real Clear Politics. The author, writing from the Democratic perspective, argued that Trump was in trouble because his downplaying of the virus and push to open the economy quickly did not sit well with his older voters. The author suspected that this loyal voting block may fail him because of the issue. As for mask wearing, I wear mine too. Perhaps I'm a moderate conservative. I suspect that the whole deep state liberal talk is coming from the few that have time to devote to Breibart/theBlaze/FOX. Most of us were just irked at the targeted enforcement.

Here's a sample from Christian Science Monitor:  https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2020/0512/For-some-seniors-virus-is-shifting-their-views-of-Trump

Edited by prisonchaplain

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10 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

As for mask wearing, I wear mine too. Perhaps I'm a moderate conservative.

I view you as a hardline socialist. 

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9 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'm a recalling an article I read at Real Clear Politics. The author, writing from the Democratic perspective, argued that Trump was in trouble because his downplaying of the virus and push to open the economy quickly did not sit well with his older voters. The author suspected that this loyal voting block may fail him because of the issue. As for mask wearing, I wear mine too. Perhaps I'm a moderate conservative. I suspect that the whole deep state liberal talk is coming from the few that have time to devote to Breibart/theBlaze/FOX. Most of us were just irked at the targeted enforcement.

Here's a sample from Christian Science Monitor:  https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2020/0512/For-some-seniors-virus-is-shifting-their-views-of-Trump

Thanks for that article. 

Up until now I hadn't even heard of any conservative news source depicting any type of conservative concern that the riots and protests would cause a problem with spreading COVID.  I only saw reports from conservative sources saying essentially "liberal sources warn of COVID spike due to protests.

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

It's complete madness how the left views this. Crowds going to church are bad. Crowds destroying private property? Nothing to see folks, move along. 

But, it's funny how some on the right are now worried about crowds spreading the disease. Two weeks ago, these were the same people screaming at those of advocating  wearing masks. 

 

I would beg to differ, it's the same people saying the same things, it's just the media that is focusing on one thing more than the other.

I have been staunch on being careful about the virus and it's dangers.  I do not think protesting in the face of it is a bright idea.  There are many that are like me, but the dialogue we have been discussing is being quelled by the media at this point.

At the same time there were MANY liberals that were against the lockdowns, they just didn't have a voice and were not being heard.  As aspect of this came out when people noted that there were communities that were generally very liberal (and thought I fear it may be taken racially, it is not, it is more of an observation made by the media during those times, that many of those communities tended to be African American which some thought was a cause for COVID-19 to be higher in incidents among that community) and yet were hit a LOT HARDER by COVID-19 than anyone else.  These communities that were being hit so hard were liberal communities that were refusing to obey the lockdowns/stay at home orders and instead flaunted the very idea of it.

Those that were flaunting the idea of the stay at home orders, in my opinion, are many of the same liberal groups that made it so tough in California and New York (not conservative bastions by any mark) to keep the virus in check. 

At the same time there were and ARE conservatives that took the entire Stay-at-home orders seriously.  I think many of them still do.  They were shut out and shouted down by the media focusing on the 'conservative' groups (debatable whether they were really conservative groups or of a different background...speaking for myself) that were protesting the stay-at home orders.  These conservatives (that took Covid-19 seriously) never got to be heard...at all.  Many of them still take these ideas seriously (including myself, who, though seen as liberal on these forums am actually independent and some would say actually leans more conservatively...though still independent).

I do not think it's so much that people have switched positions (unless you are in the media, in which case it's which story is the most sensationalistic and will thus bring in the most money to the organization they work for), as much as it is which groups the media is focusing on.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's complete madness how the left views this. Crowds going to church are bad. Crowds destroying private property? Nothing to see folks, move along. 

But, it's funny how some on the right are now worried about crowds spreading the disease. Two weeks ago, these were the same people screaming at those of advocating  wearing masks.

I don't get out much these days (pun intended) but from what I have seen and heard, the newfound worry over the spread of disease is merely an attempt to publicize the blatant hypocrisy of the left and the incompetence of their so called 'medical professionals'.

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3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I heard the opposite. That some government agencies don't like hiring BYU grads because they can be naive and too trusting. No, not an insult, just what I heard. Flame on. 

Maybe some do. And maybe they‘re right. Sometimes. But not always.

My son managed to be accepted into a top law school. He is among the lowest-income students accepted in, because his father is not worth millions of dollars. It appears that most of his classmates belong to families of more financial means. These are the children of the elite, and almost all of them graduated from Ivy League schools. They are highly intelligent and very well-educated. Yet my son informs me that the average law student is utterly clueless when it comes to understanding how poor people actually live. Most of these people have literally never spent a day with a poor family, much less been friends with lower-income people. They have never lived in a crappy missionary apartment, only expensive suites in the nice part of whatever town they were in. They talk about "the poor" as if they're compassionate, yet they clearly feel they're the superior upper crust of society, the smart ones destined to take care of those too ignorant and stupid to take care of themselves.

In actual point of fact, they are the most racist people my son has ever met, though mostly unconsciously so. They are absolutely straitjacketed by their own political correctness, and spend much of their time arguing that the incarcerated should all be freed. Of course, this is because their homes and their families are not likely to be threatened by  the release of such criminals, almost all of whom don't really spend a lot of time in the nice parts of town. Their "compassion" costs the economic lower class dearly, while they pat themselves on the back for their wokeness.

My son spent two years talking with adults in hard situations and helping them deal with the grim realities of their lives. His classmates mostly don't have a clue about such things. Their idea of "helping" the unmarried mother is assisting her in filling out her welfare form and maybe getting her an Uber to the abortion clinic.

I'm not saying these people are evil. My son believes that most of them are sincere, at least as sincere as you can be when you're utterly ignorant in the area you're talking about. They mean well, but most of them don't understand that you have to get your hands dirty and actually do the work needed to understand people, their outlook, their mindset, what they're trying to accomplish and what they don't care about. They truly believe that they are the Enlightened, bringing Truth and Mercy not only to the unwashed hordes but to the benighted, foolish, and evil Conservatives. It's an amazing thing, and my son goes it mostly alone, since I've never dealt in such circles.

But the moral is: You would be shocked at how often the "naive Mormon boy" (or girl) knows vastly more than the privileged, selfish, narrow-minded people around them. Sometimes, Latter-day Saints come off looking amazingly smart, which almost always gobsmacks observers, who can't understand how rubes like that could know such things, and so end up shrugging it off as a deviation from the norm instead of an example of it.

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15 hours ago, askandanswer said:

And as a result, we have infinitely more rules, penalties, restrictions and limitations on our liberty pertaining to driving than we do on on matters pertaining to covid 19 and we spend huge amounts on enforcing these rules related to driving, but everyone accepts those rules, penalties and restrictions as just a normal part of life without questioning them.

Yes.  But your car is not impounded before you were found to be a danger on the road.  All rules are geared towards - "this will hurt people, you're still going to drive anywhere, anytime, if you keep yourself and others safe, we'll leave you alone".  Covid rules - "you're probably healthy but we don't care, you're going to kill somebody so stay at home."

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11 hours ago, person0 said:

I don't get out much these days (pun intended) but from what I have seen and heard, the newfound worry over the spread of disease is merely an attempt to publicize the blatant hypocrisy of the left and the incompetence of their so called 'medical professionals'.

That’s been my experience as well.  In the conservative articles I’ve read, I’ve probably seen four or five “look at those filthy hypocrites!” columns for every apparently sincere “oh, crap, this is gonna come back to bite us in two weeks” column.

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16 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

which video?

Whatever video you had posted.  I can't see it because it was removed by YouTube.

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36 minutes ago, pam said:

Whatever video you had posted.  I can't see it because it was removed by YouTube.

I've gone through this entire thread and I don't see any missing link or blocked video.  I guess I didn't miss it. But thanks anyway.

I wish I knew which one it was so I can figure out what was so objectionable about it.

Edited by Carborendum

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On 6/7/2020 at 3:22 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I remember hearing back in the late 1980s that law enforcement agencies, including the CIA, liked to hire BYU grads. The agencies figure these candidates are often bilingual and they are not likely to become compromised due to drug/alcohol use/abuse.

This article makes the point "Mormons end up in these agencies for perfectly logical reasons. The disproportionate number of Mormons is usually chalked up to three factors: Mormon people often have strong foreign language skills, from missions overseas; a relatively easy time getting security clearances, given their abstention from drugs and alcohol; and a willingness to serve."

This article doesn't cite a source, but says "A recruiter told the Salt Lake Tribune that returned Mormon missionaries are valued for their foreign language skills, abstinence from drugs and alcohol, and respect for authority."

 

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