Carb's Take on Racism


Carborendum
 Share

Recommended Posts

Based on recent current events and many comments regarding the situation, I'm going to make a statement on racism.  It is just my personal observation.  It is based on experiences of hundreds of Asian immigrants I've known, across half a dozen states, and just as many foreign countries, over the course of 50 years.  But it is just a personal observation.

Racism has always been around.  It is not unique to the US.  In fact, the US is probably among the most racially tolerant nations on earth.  Not perfect, obviously, especially considering recent events.  But if you honestly believe we're the worst -- or even near the same category as the worst -- you haven't been to other nations where it is literally a problem worth killing for.

I have felt it in my life.  And I also know it has gotten a lot better over the many years of my life.  America is getting better.  Other nations aren't.  Racism is much worse in less developed countries.  In this century (already 20 years old) racism in the US is at least commonly acknowledged as being stupid if not worse. Other nations consider it normal.  They say things like, well sure, they're (insert race here). So of course they're (insert racial stereotype or characteristic here). DUH!!  And no one calls them out on it.  It's the expectation.

Mexican kids in school particularly gave me troubles because I was a small kid.  As you all know, I usually never back down from a fight--even if I have no hope of winning.  I just don't give up that easily.  Sometimes I got beat up enough that I had to take a break from standing up for myself.  But I eventually did.  And quite often, I'd win the fights -- even when they were twice my size.

The point being that they picked these fights because I was small -- and because I was a different race than they were.  I had Mexican friends who were just as small.  But they never got picked on.  And they made it very clear to shout racist epithets to ensure I understood their motives.

The crazy part was that some of the guys in those groups never participated in the fights.  But they did at least participate in part of the taunting and encouraging.  When they were by themselves, they behaved like my friends. And I guess I still don't understand that mindset.

By the time I got into high school, people behaved better. 

  • There were still stereotypes
  • There were still ethnic jokes
  • Not as many epithets.  In fact, the last one I heard was in my freshman year at BYU. So, no the Church is not immune.
  • No more fist fights
  • I think I once related the stories of people setting me up with a girl (when I was single, of course) because she was the only Asian girl they knew.  And then I ended up marrying a white girl.

When I got passed over for picking teams, I understood it was because I was small, not because of my race.  One would be a fool to pick me for their basketball team.

If you go to Korea or Japan, you'll find two highly developed nations who are also highly racist.  But they're equal opportunity haters.  They hate anyone who is not their own race (and by race I mean Korean or Japanese respectively).  Koreans generally hate Americans -- especially white Americans.  They also hate Japanese and Chinese.  They really look down on everyone.  Japanese are so racist that even if you're speaking perfect Japanese to them, they refuse to speak Japanese back because that would be acknowledging that you're human.  They also hate Koreans and Chinese just as much.

Sure, businessmen and diplomats know not to bite the hand that feeds them.  And shop owners know to greet Americans with a smile and nice tones.  But as soon as they're gone, they give out audible sighs and grunts.

By contrast, all the Asian immigrants I knew used to just accept America and try to blend in.  All the hatred and racism disappears from them.  They even forced their children to stop speaking the language of their homeland and learn to be fluent in English.  Many of the parents opened up businesses and simply smiled.  They did not let out the sighs and grunts.  They just ran their businesses and sent their kids to school to secure a better life for them.

Asians were told the following:

  • Learn to speak English fluently. 
  • Get proper education and training in a field that pays well. 
  • If you have these two things, you'll figure out all the rest.
  • It is your drive and your abilities that will get you ahead.

Now compare that to Blacks, and Hispanics. What are they taught?

  • If you speak like them, you're a sellout.
  • If you get good grades in school you're a sellout.
  • You can't get ahead because of "da man".
  • Government will figure it all out and save us.

How have these philosophies been working?  Well, we can see it in the lives of people who do the opposite of the above.  Black people who value education, language, and hard work get ahead.  Asians who don't, fall into poverty.  Muslims (BTW, they don't easily fall into either category across their various national origins) also succeed and fail by these formulae.

The startling pattern I've seen is that among the recent Asian immigrants for the past 15 years or so, Asians are buying into the "sellout" philosophy. And more of them are falling into poverty.  It will a take another 15 or 20 years for those effects to show up in statistics.  But I've seen it happening.  Luckily, the successful Asians of previous generations are still valuing these things and teaching them to their children.

But this is the "different kind of racism" I experience as an Asian adult.

Edited by Carborendum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless
5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If you go to Korea or Japan, you'll find two highly developed nations who are also highly racist.  But they're equal opportunity haters.  They hate anyone who is not their own race (and by race I mean Korean or Japanese respectively).  Koreans generally hate Americans -- especially white Americans.  They also hate Japanese and Chinese.  They really look down on everyone.  Japanese are so racist that even if you're speaking perfect Japanese to them, they refuse to speak Japanese back because that would be acknowledging that you're human.  They also hate Koreans and Chinese just as much.

During my dad's second tour in Okinawa (age 8-11 for me), I learned that there were Japanese and there were Okinawans, and that they had a dynamic similar to what you might see between white Americans and native Hawaiians. We learned about the Battle of Okinawa in school, where Japanese soldiers hid in caves using Okinawan civilians as human shields. My mom and I toured some of those historical sites. Even at such a young age, it made a considerable impression on me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two kinds or levels of racism (prejudice).  To explain, I will call the first ignorance.  In general this is because few of us are comfortable in trusting that with which we have little understanding or knowledge.  In a song I once heard on Sesame Street there were the lyrics - "one of these things do not belong with the others".   Logically our human brains are wired to catalog things that are similar separate from those that are different.   This firs kind of prejudice is not near as evil as most of our society would like to make it out to be.

The second kind of racism (prejudice) is based in hate.  This kind of prejudice is generated through competition where winning is the only important outcome and any competition to "winning" is an enemy that must be defeated at all costs.  Our society is full of this kind of racism (prejudice) in the form of sports, politics and religion - which are also the historical engines of war and other such things (perhaps not sports so much - but I put in sports so one can understand how such prejudices are easily generated).   One other word about sports - it use to be that a good sport was not so interested in winning but in their best effort.  Anyway to carry on - this second kind of racism (prejudice) defines our hated enemy. 

Most racism is of the first kind - but this first kind can be easily ignited into the second if those involved think it necessary to retaliate  as a means to seek justice.  Demanding justice can become a kind of race bating feeding this viscous cycle.  In the parable of the Good Samaritan we see how even the second horrible level of racism or prejudice can be overcome.  Note that I say can be overcome - many of the Pharisees that heard the parable did not learn from it.

I do not care if we think our enemy is an atheists, a black, Hispanic, White, LGBTQ, Catholic, Protestant, Satan worshiper, Communists or a dreaded liberal - we ought to get past our impressions and befriend one such.  And remember the principle of picking the lowest hanging fruit first as the best and easiest means to success.  If we can learn to find common ground and build even a single friendship - we can say with assiduity, that we are not a racists, or prejudice or a bigot - at least in that one particular sense.

 

The Traveler 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

If you go to Korea or Japan, you'll find two highly developed nations who are also highly racist.  But they're equal opportunity haters.  They hate anyone who is not their own race (and by race I mean Korean or Japanese respectively).  Koreans generally hate Americans -- especially white Americans.  They also hate Japanese and Chinese.  They really look down on everyone.  Japanese are so racist that even if you're speaking perfect Japanese to them, they refuse to speak Japanese back because that would be acknowledging that you're human.  They also hate Koreans and Chinese just as much.

I didn't understand how deeply ingrained that stuff was, until I watched a foreign cop movie.  A full third of the movie involved people reacting to the two cops in ways that I could not grasp.  Everyone was mad at either one cop or the other, or both, or otherwise expressed distaste with the notion that they would be paired together at all.  I finally read that the movie had paired a Japanese cop and a Korean cop.  And the Japanese people hated the Korean, and vice versa, and some scenes had people simply unable to grasp the pairing at all.  They were doing more than fighting the bad guys, they also had to fight all the good guys who tried to make them fail.

My old boss also told me the story of getting yelled at in Germany for trying to speak German to a shopkeeper.  He was rudely told in no uncertain terms that German was for Germans, and unless he was full-blooded German, he needed to speak English.  The Germans had condescended down to learning enough English to communicate, so that would do.

Edited by NeuroTypical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

My old boss also told me the story of getting yelled at in Germany for trying to speak German to a shopkeeper.  He was rudely told in no uncertain terms that German was for Germans, and unless he was full-blooded German, he needed to speak English.  The Germans had condescended down to learning enough English to communicate, so that would do.

With Germans, they catch you coming or going.  If you don't know enough German to communicate, then they play like they don't understand English -- just to avoid having to talk to you, because you're not German.  It is rare to find any educated German who doesn't speak English on at least a passing level.

Edited by Carborendum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Scott
8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 Koreans generally hate Americans -- especially white Americans. 

Excuse my ignorance on this, but why would South Koreans hate Americans?

I understand the animosity and history concerning the Japanese and Chinese, but why Americans?  I cant think of any time in history when the United States did harm to South Korea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Scott said:

Excuse my ignorance on this, but why would South Koreans hate Americans?

I understand the animosity and history concerning the Japanese and Chinese, but why Americans?  I cant think of any time in history when the United States did harm to South Korea.

Because they're not Koreans, duh-uh.

Racism doesn't have to make sense.  It just is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the easiest thing in the world to understand.  Start with the God-given righteous concept of stewardship.  Y'all want strong families, neighbors that know and like each other, strong communities, a united nation under just laws, right? 

Now, let Satan at that concept.  It becomes:
- Me against my siblings.
- Me and my siblings against our family.
- Me and my family against our extended family.
- Me and my extended family against our race.
- Me and my race against other races.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Godless said:

During my dad's second tour in Okinawa (age 8-11 for me), I learned that there were Japanese and there were Okinawans, and that they had a dynamic similar to what you might see between white Americans and native Hawaiians. We learned about the Battle of Okinawa in school, where Japanese soldiers hid in caves using Okinawan civilians as human shields. My mom and I toured some of those historical sites. Even at such a young age, it made a considerable impression on me.

Wasn’t it Okinawa where, after we won, thousands of civilians marched off the cliffs lemming-like into the sea because the Japanese authorities had told them all kinds of horror stories about what life under American rule would be like?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless
18 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Wasn’t it Okinawa where, after we won, thousands of civilians marched off the cliffs lemming-like into the sea because the Japanese authorities had told them all kinds of horror stories about what life under American rule would be like?

I don't remember hearing stories quite like that, but it would make sense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Scott
52 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Because they're not Koreans, duh-uh.

Racism doesn't have to make sense.  It just is.

I understand that part, but it seems that as terrible as racism is, it seems that most racists don't actually hate other races (though some actually do), but do believe their race to be superior.  Of course there are exceptions.

I agree that it doesn't make sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Scott
22 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Wasn’t it Okinawa where, after we won, thousands of civilians marched off the cliffs lemming-like into the sea because the Japanese authorities had told them all kinds of horror stories about what life under American rule would be like?

It happened in several places, the most famous at Suicide Cliff.  My brother went on a mission arounf there.

Wiki has a pretty article on Suicide Cliff:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Cliff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Scott said:

I understand that part, but it seems that as terrible as racism is, it seems that most racists don't actually hate other races (though some actually do), but do believe their race to be superior.  Of course there are exceptions.

I agree that it doesn't make sense.

OK, semantics.  Yes, you're right.  "Hate" as we think of it is probably incorrect. The classical definition of "despise" is more accurate:

Quote

To condemn; to scorn; to disdain; to have the lowest opinion of.

Or to quote Shakespeare:

Quote

Scorn and defiance, slight regard, contempt, and anything that may not misbecome the great sender, doth he prize you at.

Edited by Carborendum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, my son-in-law is Japanese (Japanese-American) and he does not seem to speak much Japanese.  I think there may be much about him that I do not know, but he is a nice guy.  I think that racism against Asian's is perhaps one of the more pernicious things in the US today simply because people see it as more acceptable than racism against other races.  They are seen as the model-minority, and as such, because they are not seen as being 'down-trodden' people think it is acceptable to do and say things against and about them which would be seen as horrific examples of racism towards any other group.

Many other minorities are some of the most vicious in their racism towards Asian Americans as well.  I think it is telling when a group yells out that they want equality, but in their actions they show that the only equality they want is for themselves to be held up, while pushing other minority groups down.  Not all groups do this, but there are those out there that I see that are VERY discriminatory towards Asian Americans. 

That said, there is also racism at times in what we think and act like.  Sometimes it is out of ignorance, and sometimes it is how we were raised or taught.  The following is probably a primary example of it, as it was something that I was taught from the church many decades ago and though it would be seen as racist today...probably...I still find it something I reflect upon.

I probably am inherently racist, though I try NOT to be.  The following story may be seen as historically backwards and racist, though I do not see it as such myself.  As I said, my son-in-law is Japanese.  Spencer W. Kimball once talked about the skins of the Lamanites becoming white.  Something interesting about my grandchildren is that they have the paler skin of my side of the family rather than the darker skin color of my Son-in-Law's family.  In a way, I see it as a fulfillment of what Spencer W. Kimball stated, even though he is Japanese and not Native American.  None of them have blue eyes though, they all have the darker brown eyes of their father.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Discrimination of the "not like" is a human survival instinct.  It's been the main human method of warding off diseases even before medicine.  It's so archetypal it is symbolized by the dots on the yin and yang symbol.  If you notice, both yin and yang have dots.

Skin-color/Culture discrimination, therefore, is not limited to white Americans.  Even within the small subset of Filipinos, you'll find not only skin-color discrimination (skin whitening soap is big business in the Philippines) but also cultural discrimination (Tagalog vs Bisaya vs Ilonggo vs Waray vs Ilokano, etc. etc.).  Same thing in every subset of society.

This natural tendency of humans to form "cliques in the playground" and ward other people off is fine.  When this becomes not fine is when discrimination turns into exertion of POWER over outside.  This is the ideology of the Social Justice marxists - using discrimination to exert power couched in -isms...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Discrimination of the "not like" is a human survival instinct.  It's been the main human method of warding off diseases even before medicine.  It's so archetypal it is symbolized by the dots on the yin and yang symbol.  If you notice, both yin and yang have dots.

Skin-color/Culture discrimination, therefore, is not limited to white Americans.  Even within the small subset of Filipinos, you'll find not only skin-color discrimination (skin whitening soap is big business in the Philippines) but also cultural discrimination (Tagalog vs Bisaya vs Ilonggo vs Waray vs Ilokano, etc. etc.).  Same thing in every subset of society.

This natural tendency of humans to form "cliques in the playground" and ward other people off is fine.  When this becomes not fine is when discrimination turns into exertion of POWER over outside.  This is the ideology of the Social Justice marxists - using discrimination to exert power couched in -isms...

Yes, I've been thinking about this for a few days now.  I'm wondering what that means for the "lone wolf" phenomenon.  Some people naturally gravitate towards NOT socializing - as a personal choice.  And they tend to be good at it.  This is different than the social reject who actually wants to be included, but is not allowed.

I know that man is meant to be a social creature.  So, is that an abberation?

In the same vein, what does it mean when certain ideologies encourage universal acceptance?

"Acceptance" is a broad word.  We are told that we are all children of God.  We're all brothers and sisters.  Yet, even the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.  And he will exclude per his judgment.  Yes, daily judgement vs final judgment.  But there are certainly boundaries that any group cannot tolerate.  Criminal behavior is one example.

Unify.  No man is an island.  Love thy neighbor as thyself.  Maybe that is it.  Would I want to be accepted as I am, when I'm in the thralls of the worst sins and addictions?  Perhaps in the moment that I'm living a depraved life.  But as I am not currently, I would hope that if a loved one found me in that state, that they would want to correct me and guide me back to the path of righteousness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, I've been thinking about this for a few days now.  I'm wondering what that means for the "lone wolf" phenomenon.  Some people naturally gravitate towards NOT socializing - as a personal choice.  And they tend to be good at it.  This is different than the social reject who actually wants to be included, but is not allowed.

I know that man is meant to be a social creature.  So, is that an abberation?

It's as much an aberration as say... homosexuality - can either be a product of nature or nurture.  They're in that dot - living within that society but different from that society.  A lone wolf's tendencies to "go it alone" is not ideal.  They're better off learning how to cooperate with others or get others to cooperate with them to be more successful - in other words, they need to learn to serve others and to humble themselves to accept service to maximize their covenants.

 

32 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

In the same vein, what does it mean when certain ideologies encourage universal acceptance?

"Acceptance" is a broad word.  We are told that we are all children of God.  We're all brothers and sisters.  Yet, even the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.  And he will exclude per his judgment.  Yes, daily judgement vs final judgment.  But there are certainly boundaries that any group cannot tolerate.  Criminal behavior is one example.

Unify.  No man is an island.  Love thy neighbor as thyself.  Maybe that is it.  Would I want to be accepted as I am, when I'm in the thralls of the worst sins and addictions?  Perhaps in the moment that I'm living a depraved life.  But as I am not currently, I would hope that if a loved one found me in that state, that they would want to correct me and guide me back to the path of righteousness.

Diversity is not strength.  Unity of values among a diverse people is where the strength (power) lies.  This strength can either be wielded for good or for bad, therefore, it is more important to work on making a society's values good than working on being diverse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here, @Carborendum, this is very illustrated.  The Breakfast Club hosts TRULY believe this in their hearts.  Rush Limbaugh truly believe his take in his heart.  They're trying to say Rush believes what he believes and can't understand what they're saying because he has white privilege.  Well, I'm not white.  And I agree with Rush... so...

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/06/01/my-conversation-with-the-breakfast-club/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 7:36 AM, Carborendum said:

If you go to Korea or Japan, you'll find two highly developed nations who are also highly racist.  But they're equal opportunity haters.  They hate anyone who is not their own race (and by race I mean Korean or Japanese respectively).  Koreans generally hate Americans -- especially white Americans. 

I humbly disagree. My seven years in Korea do not make me much of an expert. However, my sense is that the Koreans I encountered (circa 1987-93) thought racially mostly because they did not encounter other races much. At the time the country was 99.6% Korean. White Americans found it much easier to get teaching jobs than Americans of other races because we "looked American." That's racial ignorance, not hatred. Koreans of that era loved and hated America. They loved our manufactured stuff, and the older generation remained thankful for our part in the Korean War. However, yes, there was some nationalism. Having foreign soldiers based on their soil was humiliating. It would be for any country. So, while we helped them we also reminded them of their weakness (at the time). Further, most Koreans do have an internal pride in how hard they work, how much they are able to endure, how much they value education, etc. One can look at this as well-earned pride in culture and people or as racist superiority. I see more of the former.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

I humbly disagree. My seven years in Korea do not make me much of an expert. However, my sense is that the Koreans I encountered (circa 1987-93) thought racially mostly because they did not encounter other races much. At the time the country was 99.6% Korean. White Americans found it much easier to get teaching jobs than Americans of other races because we "looked American." That's racial ignorance, not hatred. Koreans of that era loved and hated America. They loved our manufactured stuff, and the older generation remained thankful for our part in the Korean War. However, yes, there was some nationalism. Having foreign soldiers based on their soil was humiliating. It would be for any country. So, while we helped them we also reminded them of their weakness (at the time). Further, most Koreans do have an internal pride in how hard they work, how much they are able to endure, how much they value education, etc. One can look at this as well-earned pride in culture and people or as racist superiority. I see more of the former.

Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino have a strong sense of national pride.  It's not about race... it's about nationality.  Filipinos are very open to foreigners and they give them very special treatment.  Japanese and Koreans love spending vacations in the Philippines because of this.  Our history with Chinese nationals in our country makes Chinese nothing special.  If you put a random Korean and a random Han Chinese next to each other, you can't tell one from the other.  Yet, Filipinos distinguish them from each other.  But, regardless of the Filipino propensity for extreme hospitality, a foreigner maligning a Filipino will unite the entire country against him... even if the foreigner is a descendant of Filipinos!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino have a strong sense of national pride.  It's not about race... it's about nationality.  Filipinos are very open to foreigners and they give them very special treatment.  Japanese and Koreans love spending vacations in the Philippines because of this.  Our history with Chinese nationals in our country makes Chinese nothing special.  If you put a random Korean and a random Han Chinese next to each other, you can't tell one from the other.  Yet, Filipinos distinguish them from each other.  But, regardless of the Filipino propensity for extreme hospitality, a foreigner maligning a Filipino will unite the entire country against him... even if the foreigner is a descendant of Filipinos!

I have decided to respond - but in responding will embarrass myself.  But such is life.  I have traveled through work through places in Asia (Philippines excluded).  I find what you are calling somewhat as nationalism - as something I think is a little more than that.  Now the embarrassing part - I would not have noticed if not for my own thoughts of national and cultural superiority.    Perhaps if I told a little story.  I was working with a company in Japan that had hired the company I worked for to help design a new industrial robot.  In our first meeting - I was not allowed to sit with the Japanese engineers.   There is more to this but lets keep this short.  As the meeting started a Japanese fellow got up and wrote on a blackboard the value of pi - to about 50 decimal places that he had memorized.   They asked me and my engineers if any of us could do that - knowing that Americans do not ever memorize pi beyond about 5 decimal places.

Back in college I had a nutty professor that for some reason wanted us all to know the Laguerre polynomial to calculate pi.  So I went to the blackboard and asked how many decimal places did they want for pi?  Then I wrote the polynomial and said that I could have pi to whatever accuracy that anyone felt appropriate.  Now I must admit that I have forgotten the very complex polynomial.  In fact I was not sure I got it right in the meeting but I was in luck because no one in the meaning had a clue if it was correct.  

I have traveled a lot in my work and only in Asia have I run into this degree - what you call nationalism - and the assumption that they are better than anyone else.  Though I was somewhat respected after that - I could not convince the Japanese that they need to have a recovery process following a uncontrolled shutdown of their robot.  All this was about 35 years ago.  A couple of years ago this same company supplied a new state of the art industrial robot in a facility where my nephew works.  I asked how the robot recovers from a uncontrolled shutdown - and he replied that it doesn't and that it was a major problem.  I am of the mind that even after so many years they still think a uncontrolled shutdown is a design flaw - and they do not want to admit "their" robot that they designed has such flaws.  I guess this is nationalism - if you insist in calling it that.

There is something I must add.  In my experiences in Asia - I found the people generally happy and friendly.   Perhaps more than anywhere else.  But I have wondered if in their thinking they are superior - they ought to be friendly.  I think this because in backward places where people do not think highly of themselves and their culture - they tend to be quite the opposite of friendly.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I have decided to respond - but in responding will embarrass myself.  But such is life.  I have traveled through work through places in Asia (Philippines excluded).  I find what you are calling somewhat as nationalism - as something I think is a little more than that. 

Ohhh... there is tons of truth in that!  I got my Master's Degree in an American university.  I got 4.0 GPA so I proudly showed it off to my dad.  And he said... that doesn't mean much because it's an American university.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino have a strong sense of national pride.  It's not about race... it's about nationality.  

I don't know much about the Philippines, so I can't address the rest of your post.  I'll take your word for it.  But for this ^ ^ part.

About the only place that Nationalism and Racism are not closely related (not synonymous, related) is in the US.  We have MANY people of all races who love America and are still willing to say with conviction that America is the greatest nation on earth.  And the vast majority of them don't care what race you are.  They care if you truly believe in the phenomenon that is America.   And if you don't believe in that principle, then you're "not one of us."  I don't know how many people actually say that.  But on some level that is the belief.  It's not about race.  It's about belief.

That's the US. (I'm not saying racism doesn't exist.  I'm saying that nationalism is different here than it is in other countries).

In nations where the racial makeup is almost monolithic, it is difficult to separate the two.  And in practice, they are often not separated.  Mixed race children (granted, this is 20 year old information) in Korea, Vietnam, China, Thailand, Laos, & Japan were treated as second class citizens -- even though they were full citizens.   This was most obvious if the other race was not an Asian race.  Some kids who were half Korean and half Japanese were treated poorly in either nation once they were found out -- even if they were friends before such revelation. 

This was from Asians I grew up with from all these countries.  One of them was a Lao girl I went to prom with in high school.  She said that is how she was treated because she was half Caucasian.  She was still met with racism in America (that was a long time ago).  But it was much better than it was in Laos.

Edited by Carborendum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a Son-in-Law that is a minority with an Asian background.  He has some very insightful thoughts pertaining to Japan.  Even if one is completely Japanese, but are not Japanese citizens, they are not held in as high a regard as those who are Japanese and are Japanese citizens currently.  It's more than just nationalism, it's something far greater.

Most Americans that go to Japan think the Japanese hold them in extremely high regard, perhaps as high as a Japanese.  I've found that this is not correct.  Some of the younger generation may be moving in that direction, but for the most part, it still is not true.  The Japanese are EXTREMELY polite.  However, behind your back, when they do not think you are listening or can understand you, they are vicious in regards to their thoughts.  

If you look at it sort of like tiers, with people and races, Japanese are the best.  They are the most superior.  They are the highest on their tier of respect.  A LOT of the way down, FAR FAR lower than any Japanese individual, are Americans.  They like Americans.  If you can't be Japanese, it is best to be an American, but no American will ever be equal to a Japanese person.  A white American may be considered higher than a Japanese that became an American citizen...simply because they do not understand why anyone would ever change from being a Japanese citizen to an American citizen.  It's a downgrade to them...and possibly an insult to Japan.

Which is what my son-in-law sometimes deals with from what I hear.  It's also interesting to hear about other racial rankings of the Japanese.  For example, Americans rank a LOT higher than Chinese who are pretty low on the respect ratio for Japanese (very little respect for the Chinese, they are near the bottom of their rankings).  At the very bottom of Japanese respect rankings normally are those of African descent.  Those of multiple mixed races (and they've dealt with some immigration of Japanese Brazilians which have a lot of this in their community) are also held in contempt. 

The amount of racism that the Japanese and some Asian nations have (no idea on those in the Philippines, this is only in areas I've visited or know people from who have commented on this interaction) no parallel in US society.  I would say their racism is much stronger and more prevalent than what most of us would experience or see in the US.

Thus, I'd say @Carborendum experiences probably reflect what I've seen or understood about it in regards to Japan, South Korea, and even China.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share