Queolby

Book of Mormon white supremacy??

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Why does the book of Mormon seem like white skin color is supreme? It even claims Mary was white and the nephites were white when he know that can't be. If Mary was white then Jesus might be too. And Christ's countenance was white. And God seems to enable the nephites to be racists by giving the lamanites a "skin of blackness" so they wouldn't be "enticing" to the white Nephites. Below are verses from the Book of Mormon. The cancel culture might get to this some day. 

13And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.

15And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.

21And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

15And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;

25And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him; and his countenance did smile upon them, and the light of his countenance did shine upon them, and behold they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness, yea, even there could be nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof.(this might be Christ's glory?)

30And when Jesus had spoken these words he came again unto his disciples; and behold they did pray steadfastly, without ceasing, unto him; and he did smile upon them again; and behold they were white, even as Jesus.(more glory?)


 

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Queolby does not engage in conversation, ever. Go back and check his posting history. He raises what he apparently sees as "controversial" topics, often disguised as "investigator questions" or "someone asked me this online," then sits back to enjoy the show. This thread continues that pattern. In my opinion, the mods should resolve this problem once and for all.

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Well if Queolby is a troll posting under a fake identity (his avatar picture) then shame on him/her and may the negative energy that is circulating in his/her brain not cause further mental illness and stress.

My theory. 

First of all let me state that I have never ever in my life EVER lost sleep at night thinking about this issue (I am a mixed race, lifelong Mormon). Its a non issue to me because its pretty simple to understand that the Gospel of Jesus Christ require a person to act a certain way and not look a certain way. 

If I were to guess though, I would say that Lehi and his family were light skinned followers of Christ. When they arrived in the Americas there were already civilizations of people living here who were dark skinned. The dark skinned natives did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ and worshipped idols and had traditions that were in alignment with influences from satan. To not be in alignment with Gods ways is to be cursed, or cut off from God. These dark skinned natives were "cursed" or cut off from God.

For God to curse Laman and Lemuals posterity with dark skin could have simply meant that Laman and lemual, through their disobedience, left the group and righteous beliefs of their light skinned brothers (the Nephites) and started to mix with the dark skinned natives, this would explain the literal changing of skin color from light to dark. Why would dark skin be a curse? Because mixing with the dark skinned natives also meant that Laman and Lemual adopted the natives unrighteous beliefs and therefore became cursed. This mixing of civilizations also explains why populations in the BkofM grew so rapidly. 

Edited by priesthoodpower

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10 hours ago, Vort said:

Queolby does not engage in conversation, ever. Go back and check his posting history. He raises what he apparently sees as "controversial" topics, often disguised as "investigator questions" or "someone asked me this online," then sits back to enjoy the show. This thread continues that pattern. In my opinion, the mods should resolve this problem once and for all.

Yup. 

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When I was teaching Institue, I came across a theory that Mormon was a Lamanite. He identifies as a "descendant of Nephi" in his own writing, but by 300 AD, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have both Lamanite and Nephite heritage. Mormon also features the Anti-Nephi-Lehis, a group of Lamanite converts, very heavily in his abridgement. He also features the people of Limhi, who desired to live among he Nephites, in his abridgement.

Whether it is factually correct or not, I don't know. But it was in intriguing thought. And so, when my ward's young men decided to hold a Book of Mormon marathon (they attempted to read the entirety of the Book of Mormon in 24 hours), I decided to participate and that I would try to read and interpret the text from the perspective of Mormon being a Lamanite. I observed something in the process, and will try to explain and quantify it here.

In this particular reading, one word started to stand out to me.  That word was 'filthy' (and its variants)

  • There are 34 occurrences of 'filth' in the Book of Mormon (via  a text search at http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/17/pg17.txt).
  • These can be categorized into 30 uses (some phrases use the term twice, such as in 'he who filthy shall be filthy still'
    • 10 uses by Nephi
    • 1 use by Isaiah
    • 7 uses by Jacob
    • 3 uses by Alma
    • 2 uses by Mormon quoting/paraphrasing Limhi
    • 1 use by Mormon
    • 2 uses by Moroni
  • In six uses, filthy is used to describe the Lamanites.  Once by Nephi, three times by Jacob, once by Enos, and once by Mormon

The six uses to describe the Lamanites are what interest me the most.  I'm going to go ahead and post all of those verses here:

Quote

1 Nephi 12:20-23

And it came to pass that I beheld, and saw the people of the seed of my brethren that they had overcome my seed; and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land.

And I saw them gathered together in multitudes; and I saw wars and rumors of wars among them; and in wars and rumors of wars I saw many generations pass away.

And the angel said unto me: Behold these shall dwindle in unbelief.

And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Quote

Jacob 3:3 - 9

But, wo, wo, unto you that are not pure in heart, that are filthy this day before God; for except ye repent the land is cursed for your sakes; and the Lamanites, which are not filthy like unto you, nevertheless they are cursed with a sore cursing, shall scourge you even unto destruction.

4 And the time speedily cometh, that except ye repent they shall possess the land of your inheritance, and the Lord God will lead away the righteous out from among you.

5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.

6 And now, this commandment they observe to keep; wherefore, because of this observance, in keeping this commandment, the Lord God will not destroy them, but will be merciful unto them; and one day they shall become a blessed people.

7 Behold, their husbands love their wives, and their wives love their husbands; and their husbands and their wives love their children; and their unbelief and their hatred towards you is because of the iniquity of their fathers; wherefore, how much better are you than they, in the sight of your great Creator?

8 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.

9 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers.

Quote

Enos 1:20

And I bear record that the people of Nephi did seek diligently to restore the Lamanites unto the true faith in God. But our labors were vain; their hatred was fixed, and they were led by their evil nature that they became wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, full of idolatry and filthiness

Quote

Mormon 5:15

And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.

From the context of all of these, it's reasonable to conclude that 'filthy' was a pretty heavy hitting term. Perhaps even close to what we might consider a slur. In the context of Nephi's culture (specifically, cultural Jew from Jerusalem), the word 'filthy' could probably be replaced with 'unclean.' Which was also pretty serious. (See also Alma 32:3 for a pejorative use of 'filthy')

Now, let's also consider that there is a certain likelihood that the Lamanites joined forces with other indigenous peoples in the area. These people wouldn't have been Israelites, and so  would have been seen as outsiders to the Nephites.  Israel wasn't exactly what we would call a tolerant society, so it shouldn't surprise us if there was a touch of racism directed toward those outsiders. As a parallel, consider the relationship between the Jews and the Samaritans--the Samaritans were cultural Jews who intermingled their religion with some of the pagan religions in the area, and they were heavily despised by the 'pure' Jews for it.

Most of the references don't make an explicit tie to skin color.  Nephi and Mormon both use the term 'dark', which may have reference to skin color. In all honesty, it probably does.

It's the references by Enos and Jacob that are really informative though.  Enos gives a description of the Lamanites that is broad and perhaps promotes a stereotype of the Lamanites. It's a caricature, and I'm inclined to take it with a grain of salt. In fairness, Nephi was barely old enough to be Enos' grandfather, so the wounds and intercultural strifes between the Nephites and the Lamanites at this point in time are pretty raw still. If you add in unfamiliar cultures from any of the indigenous peoples the Lamanites may have joined, the stereotyping hypothesis becomes a little more plausible. 

Jacob is the really interesting speaker in all of this, though. He actually goes to great length to separate 'filthiness' from 'skin'. This is important--in one respect, this strengthens the hypothesis that 'filthy' was a type of slur. More importantly, Jacob makes it explicit that 'filthiness' is a spiritual condition, and goes so far as to state that Nephites are the filthier race because their wickedness is greater than that of the Lamanites.

In other words, Jacob explicitly rejects the link between skin color and supremacy. 

 

Ultimately, the conclusion I've come to at this phase of my study is that there did exist a certain amount of racism and classism among the Nephites against the Lamanites. Mormon himself seemed to harbor some of these biases. In 3 Nephi 2:15-16, he describes converted Lamanites as having their skin become "white like unto the Nephites" and that their sons and daughters became "exceedingly fair." Given Mormon's general reticence to use 'filthy' to describe anything other than a spiritual condition, I'm inclined to believe that he is describing their physical attractiveness. In other words, the Nephite culture and those of Mormon's culture seem to have determined lighter skin to be the standard of beauty.

The question that follows that conclusion is "how could prophets of God harbor those biases?" Well, they were still human, and still suffered from the imperfections of man.  Moroni explicitly states this. 

Quote

Mormon 9:31

Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been.

And so if we read the right bits and pieces, it isn't difficult to paint a picture for "white supremacy in the Book of Mormon." However, if you read the broader teachings contained in that scripture, it becomes clear that filthiness--as used by the Book of Mormon authors--is strictly a spiritual condition that is not tied to skin color. Jacob makes that point inarguable. I recommend we follow Moroni's plea. Let us learn to be more wise than they have been and reject racial supremacy. Instead, let's recognize the beautiful truths of the Book of Mormon, the Bible, and all other scripture that teach that all men are children of God and that he desires all of them to return to his presence.

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Call it lack of charity (which it probably is) but I don't have a lot of compassion for anyone who tries to separate a few verses of scripture from the rest and then draws totally erroneous conclusions from them. No one who has actually read the Book of Mormon could draw the conclusions found in the OP unless they had ulterior motives. And concerning those who chose to adopt the cancel culture reasonable explanations don't matter to them so why bother.

Edited by laronius

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4 minutes ago, laronius said:

Call it lack of charity (which it probably is) but I don't have a lot of compassion for anyone who tries to separate a few verses of scripture from the rest and then draws totally erroneous conclusions from them. No one who has actually read the Book of Mormon could draw the conclusions found in the OP unless they had ulterior motives. And concerning those who chose to adopt the cancel culture reasonable explanations don't matter to them so why bother.

This seems tone deaf to me.  It isn't at all hard for a faithful and well intentioned member of the Church to stumble across some of the verses in the Book of Mormon and generate honest and sincere questions about whether it promotes racial supremacy. You don't have to have ulterior motives for it to happen. And it can be very disturbing to some people when they encounter it. 

Waving a hand and classifying everyone who sees these issues as having 'ulterior motives' is factually wrong. This is an issue that, like most issues, is best addressed by more information.

Furthermore, as demonstrated above, generating the requisite evidence to demonstrate that racial supremacy is rejected by the Book of Mormon required not only a full reading of the Book of Mormon, but cultural context of Israelite custom and religion as well. It's taken me nearly 40 years to come to understand and articulate everything I articulated above. Perhaps we should be a little more charitable when people ask the question and have a real discussion with them*

 

* I'm willing to concede that Queolby may not be one asking in sincerity. But alas, my response was not targeted at him, but at any others who may stumble across it.

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18 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

This seems tone deaf to me.  It isn't at all hard for a faithful and well intentioned member of the Church to stumble across some of the verses in the Book of Mormon and generate honest and sincere questions about whether it promotes racial supremacy. You don't have to have ulterior motives for it to happen. And it can be very disturbing to some people when they encounter it.

Perhaps not. But taking Queolby's posting history as a whole, it is not hard to conclude (or perhaps hard not to conclude) that he is less than an honest actor, as your asterisked footnote concedes:

19 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

* I'm willing to concede that Queolby may not be one asking in sincerity. But alas, my response was not targeted at him, but at any others who may stumble across it.

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When @Vort and I agree on something, it might be an opinion to take seriously. And he's 100% correct on this. 200%. 

Edited by MormonGator

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11 hours ago, Vort said:

Queolby does not engage in conversation, ever. Go back and check his posting history. He raises what he apparently sees as "controversial" topics, often disguised as "investigator questions" or "someone asked me this online," then sits back to enjoy the show. This thread continues that pattern. In my opinion, the mods should resolve this problem once and for all.

This little mod's take on things: Asking a provocative question and then watching the ants run around is perfectly acceptable behavior.  If we don't have good answers to the questions, we've got a problem.

Quote

D&C 71:
5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also; 
6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power. 
7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest. 
8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord. 
9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; 
10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time. 
11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.

1 Peter 3:15:  "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

1 Thessalonians 5:21:  "Prove all things; hold fast to which is good."

Jude 1:3: "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."
Quote
Though argument does not create conviction, the lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish."
Austin Farrer, "The Christian Apologist," in Light on C. S. Lewis , ed. Jocelyn Gibb (New York: Harcourt and Brace, 1965), 26.

Keep the good relevant answers coming folks.   Yes, it would be nice if it seemed like our answers were making a difference with the asker.  But it's far more important that the answers make a difference with you.

 

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Discussions about dark-skinned Lamanites aside, some of the other points the OP raises are not unique to the Book of Mormon.  For whatever reason, “shining” countenances are also associated in the Bible with divine power being upon a person; the color “white” with purity (though alternately, in some instances, with leprosy and sickness) and black or red with dirt, sin, blood, and/or death.

If a modern social justice warrior is so hard-hearted that ze can’t abide a religion where divine goodness is spoken of as “light” (and its absence as “darkness”)—I don’t think there’s much the Church can do for said individual in that hard-hearted state.  There’s a fine line where a noble cause transitions into a false god.

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4 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

This seems tone deaf to me.  It isn't at all hard for a faithful and well intentioned member of the Church to stumble across some of the verses in the Book of Mormon and generate honest and sincere questions about whether it promotes racial supremacy. You don't have to have ulterior motives for it to happen. And it can be very disturbing to some people when they encounter it. 

* I'm willing to concede that Queolby may not be one asking in sincerity. But alas, my response was not targeted at him, but at any others who may stumble across it.

Perhaps I need to add lack of clarity to my lack of charity. 😀

I agree that honest seekers of truth may have completely valid questions about this and other things found in the scriptures. My post wasn't really directed at them so much as those who seem to go out of their way to twist the truth and my ulterior motive remark was aimed at them. But I don't completely back off my comment about drawing the conclusions found in the OP. Over the course of the Book of Mormon when you see the constant desire for the Nephites to bring about the conversion of their "brethren" the Lamanites and how they welcomed them with open arms once they did accept the gospel it's clear, at least to me, that this wasn't a racial thing but a belief system issue. That doesn't completely answer the question about the dark skin but I don't think a person can argue that the color of one's skin somehow made them less in the eyes of the Nephites.  

 

Edited by laronius

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Something about Israel and the so called darker skin there.  Anyone who thinks Jews have darker skins have never visited Israel.  Some do, some do not.  However, by heritage, those in the area of Israel (and in fact, much of the middle East) were very FAIR in skin tone prior to invasions from the South and from the East (and particularly from the East in the past 1000 years).

Today you have those that have a European Jew background (normally very fair), a typical Palestinian type background (which ranges from fair as well, to somewhat more tan, though not half as dark as I've seen people indicate online), to those with other backgrounds of darker skin tones (some from the Middle East, some from further east or further south).

It is very possible the Lord was darker skinned, but sometimes a LOT of these conjectures are based upon the current genomes in the civilizations living in the Middle East rather than what is indicated about those who lived there prior to modern times.  What we now know as Turkey was actually at one time considered part of the European influence (not Europe, but included in cultural groups in the areas around the Mediterranean such as the Greeks and Romans), with areas just south of it being highly influenced by the peoples and cultures. 

In what they appeared as I suppose depends on whether you take the idea that they descend from a more southern heritage (Egypt and further south) or from the more Northern Heritage (what we now call Turkey and the Greek areas of the Mediterranean influence).

Edited by JohnsonJones

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10 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

When I was teaching Institue, I came across a theory that Mormon was a Lamanite. He identifies as a "descendant of Nephi" in his own writing, but by 300 AD, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have both Lamanite and Nephite heritage. Mormon also features the Anti-Nephi-Lehis, a group of Lamanite converts, very heavily in his abridgement. He also features the people of Limhi, who desired to live among he Nephites, in his abridgement.

Whether it is factually correct or not, I don't know. But it was in intriguing thought. And so, when my ward's young men decided to hold a Book of Mormon marathon (they attempted to read the entirety of the Book of Mormon in 24 hours), I decided to participate and that I would try to read and interpret the text from the perspective of Mormon being a Lamanite. I observed something in the process, and will try to explain and quantify it here.

In this particular reading, one word started to stand out to me.  That word was 'filthy' (and its variants)

  • There are 34 occurrences of 'filth' in the Book of Mormon (via  a text search at http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/17/pg17.txt).
  • These can be categorized into 30 uses (some phrases use the term twice, such as in 'he who filthy shall be filthy still'
    • 10 uses by Nephi
    • 1 use by Isaiah
    • 7 uses by Jacob
    • 3 uses by Alma
    • 2 uses by Mormon quoting/paraphrasing Limhi
    • 1 use by Mormon
    • 2 uses by Moroni
  • In six uses, filthy is used to describe the Lamanites.  Once by Nephi, three times by Jacob, once by Enos, and once by Mormon

The six uses to describe the Lamanites are what interest me the most.  I'm going to go ahead and post all of those verses here:

From the context of all of these, it's reasonable to conclude that 'filthy' was a pretty heavy hitting term. Perhaps even close to what we might consider a slur. In the context of Nephi's culture (specifically, cultural Jew from Jerusalem), the word 'filthy' could probably be replaced with 'unclean.' Which was also pretty serious. (See also Alma 32:3 for a pejorative use of 'filthy')

Now, let's also consider that there is a certain likelihood that the Lamanites joined forces with other indigenous peoples in the area. These people wouldn't have been Israelites, and so  would have been seen as outsiders to the Nephites.  Israel wasn't exactly what we would call a tolerant society, so it shouldn't surprise us if there was a touch of racism directed toward those outsiders. As a parallel, consider the relationship between the Jews and the Samaritans--the Samaritans were cultural Jews who intermingled their religion with some of the pagan religions in the area, and they were heavily despised by the 'pure' Jews for it.

Most of the references don't make an explicit tie to skin color.  Nephi and Mormon both use the term 'dark', which may have reference to skin color. In all honesty, it probably does.

It's the references by Enos and Jacob that are really informative though.  Enos gives a description of the Lamanites that is broad and perhaps promotes a stereotype of the Lamanites. It's a caricature, and I'm inclined to take it with a grain of salt. In fairness, Nephi was barely old enough to be Enos' grandfather, so the wounds and intercultural strifes between the Nephites and the Lamanites at this point in time are pretty raw still. If you add in unfamiliar cultures from any of the indigenous peoples the Lamanites may have joined, the stereotyping hypothesis becomes a little more plausible. 

Jacob is the really interesting speaker in all of this, though. He actually goes to great length to separate 'filthiness' from 'skin'. This is important--in one respect, this strengthens the hypothesis that 'filthy' was a type of slur. More importantly, Jacob makes it explicit that 'filthiness' is a spiritual condition, and goes so far as to state that Nephites are the filthier race because their wickedness is greater than that of the Lamanites.

In other words, Jacob explicitly rejects the link between skin color and supremacy. 

 

Ultimately, the conclusion I've come to at this phase of my study is that there did exist a certain amount of racism and classism among the Nephites against the Lamanites. Mormon himself seemed to harbor some of these biases. In 3 Nephi 2:15-16, he describes converted Lamanites as having their skin become "white like unto the Nephites" and that their sons and daughters became "exceedingly fair." Given Mormon's general reticence to use 'filthy' to describe anything other than a spiritual condition, I'm inclined to believe that he is describing their physical attractiveness. In other words, the Nephite culture and those of Mormon's culture seem to have determined lighter skin to be the standard of beauty.

The question that follows that conclusion is "how could prophets of God harbor those biases?" Well, they were still human, and still suffered from the imperfections of man.  Moroni explicitly states this. 

And so if we read the right bits and pieces, it isn't difficult to paint a picture for "white supremacy in the Book of Mormon." However, if you read the broader teachings contained in that scripture, it becomes clear that filthiness--as used by the Book of Mormon authors--is strictly a spiritual condition that is not tied to skin color. Jacob makes that point inarguable. I recommend we follow Moroni's plea. Let us learn to be more wise than they have been and reject racial supremacy. Instead, let's recognize the beautiful truths of the Book of Mormon, the Bible, and all other scripture that teach that all men are children of God and that he desires all of them to return to his presence.

What about Mary being white? Is possible that Jesus really is a white Jesus?

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20 hours ago, Vort said:

Queolby does not engage in conversation, ever. Go back and check his posting history. He raises what he apparently sees as "controversial" topics, often disguised as "investigator questions" or "someone asked me this online," then sits back to enjoy the show. This thread continues that pattern. In my opinion, the mods should resolve this problem once and for all.

Because I usually get my questions answered and so then I just LIKE them

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1 hour ago, Queolby said:

What about Mary being white? Is possible that Jesus really is a white Jesus?

Of course it's possible.  The fact is -- WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE.  And we don't know what Mary looked like.

https://askgramps.org/artists-portray-christ-white-skinned/

Why don't people ask about depictions of Mary as an adult instead of a 13 year old girl (which was entirely possible given the social norms of the time)?  Why don't they give the Catholics a hard time for depicting her as the reverend mother type rather than the little girl?  Why don't they give all of Christianity a hard time for depicting Mary as white?

No, it's just the Mormons for DARING to simply make and distribute a painting that make people think of the Savior.

Now, given the very common figurative language of the Book of Mormon when talking about "white" and "filthy" and such, I would ask, does the Spirit tell you that the Savior was the source of all that is good?  And denying him is what is considered "filthy"?  If so, the authors of the Book of Mormon did their jobs.

Edited by Carborendum

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9 hours ago, Queolby said:

What about Mary being white? Is possible that Jesus really is a white Jesus?

This question entirely misses the point. Skin color is irrelevant. Any indication in the scriptures that it is may be attributed to either cultural factors (such as dark being paired with filthy, white is paired with purity), or the flaws of man.

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 6:56 PM, Queolby said:

What about Mary being white? Is possible that Jesus really is a white Jesus?

Yes, it is possible that the Lord is white skinned, if that is what you are asking.

It is possible he looks different than what some imagine him looking like these days as well.

Something to consider is that there ARE prophets and apostles who DID meet with the Lord and knew what he looked like.

When we may be puzzled or confused on things, I think a verse in Isaiah is good to keep in mind.

Quote

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isaiah 55:8-9

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 8:43 AM, MormonGator said:

When @Vort and I agree on something, it might be an opinion to take seriously. And he's 100% correct on this. 200%. 

Note just to @MormonGator: You do realize that @Vort can take this post and cut and paste to any future disagreements you might have, right??? :doh:

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19 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Note just to @MormonGator: You do realize that @Vort can take this post and cut and paste to any future disagreements you might have, right??? :doh:

That's awesome! lol! 

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On 6/24/2020 at 9:45 PM, Carborendum said:

we don't know what Mary looked like

We have a little description mentioned in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 11).

... she was exceedingly fair and white.   ... most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.

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6 hours ago, Jonah said:

We have a little description mentioned in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 11).

... she was exceedingly fair and white.   ... most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.

Oh, of course!  You're right!  I don't think anyone has commented on that... ever... like in this thread... at all...

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There’s definitely some language in the BOM that sounds white supremacist.  But the BOM as a whole has a very inclusive anti-tribal and anti-racist message.  You got to step back and look at the big picture.  

Edited by Phineas

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