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41 minutes ago, Scott said:

When I say that a racist is someone who believes that he or she is superior to someone just because of his or her race I mean he or she believes that he or she is a superior human being.  I'm talking about thinking a human is superior to another, not a specific trait.  

Let me make sure I understand you correctly.

I have a son that served his mission in the US in the Kentucky/Indiana area, largely among black people. He told me some important things he learned on his mission. According to my son, among United States African American Christians, a significant number believe in "black Jesus". The idea is that Jesus, and in fact all the ancient Jews (Hebrews), were African blacks. It's only the machinations of evil white people through the centuries that has perverted this truth into the idea that Jesus was a white man of some sort.

By this reckoning, black people are the Chosen People of God, the true Israel. Among black American Christians, this means that the black race is actually the superior race, and other races (especially the white race) are degenerate and dishonest races that have stolen the place of the Chosen People, usurping their birthright heritage and masking the inherent mental and spiritual superiority of the Chosen Race.

So your contention is that all African Americans who believe the "black Jesus" idea are racist?

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

So your contention is that all African Americans who believe the "black Jesus" idea are racist?

If they just believe that Jesus is black, no.

If they believe that other races are inferior and are lesser human beings because Jesus is black, then yes; even more so if they treat those other races as lesser human beings.

 

Edited by Scott

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13 minutes ago, Scott said:

If they just believe that Jesus is black, no.

If they believe that other races are inferior and are lesser human beings because Jesus is black, then yes; even more so if they treat those other races as lesser human beings.

Then I agree with your definition. But academics and politicians will not.

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Just now, pam said:

I have hated the thought of getting older and my life time running out.  Now I'm kind of looking forward to it.  Sad to say but it's how I feel these days.

I try hard not to feel that way. I imagine it's a sort of slap in God's face for the gift of life. But sometimes I really feel the wisdom of mortality.

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In regards to the Star Spangled Banner...

I see no problem with changing the 3rd verse of the Star Spangled Banner.  In todays' society and culture, that verse is normally not sung.  In fact, the only verse that is normally sung of the Star Spangled Banner is the first verse. 

If anything, they could even drop the other verses from the US national anthem and only keep the first verse and very little would actually be affected in how we normally use it.

We already never sing the 5th verse (and yes, there IS a 5th verse, it came belatedly and was NOT in the same poem by Key, but was sung at various points of the song's history.  It is directly related to the Civil War and events surrounding it.  If we included THAT verse, or changed it out with the third, it may even be seen as a way to mollify those who dislike the 3rd verse), relenting on the 3rd probably won't change all that much.

So, I DO have a problem with those who want to erase history.  I DO have a problem with those who want to change the US National Anthem simply because of their own personal bias.  However, with how the US Anthem is currently used (I do not think I've ever heard anymore than the first verse at a ballgame for example), I don't see a problem with changing the verses after the first verse.  I would wager if we did so, 99% of people out there would not even notice the difference (or even realize what had changed).  There would be a small percentage of people that would, but overall, most are not even familiar with the rest of the verses of the Anthem to know what is or is not in them (just like, most probably did not even realize there is a 5th verse that was sung with the Anthem at points in history).

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On 6/25/2020 at 5:08 PM, mirkwood said:

I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left, for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished, thereby perpetrating a foul and corroding blot upon the fair fame of this great republic, the very thought of which would have caused the high-minded and patriotic framers of the Constitution of the United States to hide their faces with shame.

( Source: Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 302-03)

Wow!!!!!!!!!

Now in 2020 we can at least sincerely attempt to address injustices of the past through various types of art.... one would be semi- reality science fiction films set supposedly in the past where we wonder about how things could have been different in non-linear time... which could correspond with Ezekiel chapter thirty seven.....(maybe)???

 

 

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On 6/26/2020 at 10:59 AM, Scott said:

When you have some time, read through his speeches during the Crandall case, which I believe was his last case before his resignation:

https://www.loc.gov/item/31010419/

These are his own words.  Tell me what you think.  

Thanks.  I may not have time to look at 15 pages of text for a while.  But I'll try.

Quote

I hope that you are wrong. 

You know, I agree.  I hope so too.  We can always try to do better.

Quote

 To me, it seems like were going backward on racial issues rather than foreward.  

If someone asked my 20 years ago about racism, I would have said that was mostly a problem of pervious generations and not this one.  I wouldn't say that today.

Strange.  I've had the exact opposite experience.  I've had people physically beat me up do various acts of physical violence when I was younger.  As an older adult, I've only had stupid stuff, nothing violent.  And a lot of stuff in between during the intervening years.

I imagine it is worse for a black man in America.  But I'd also imagine it is a lot better today than it was in the 60s and 70s. 

I actually know a lot of black people in the south.  And not a single one of them personally knows anyone who has been lynched or had crosses burned on their lawns.  We all hear stories.  But none of them has personally experienced it.

Edited by Carborendum

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On 6/27/2020 at 4:33 PM, Carborendum said:

I actually know a lot of black people in the south.  And not a single one of them personally knows anyone who has been lynched or had crosses burned on their lawns.  We all hear stories.  But none of them has personally experienced it.

And old lady in my ward joined us for sacrament meeting yesterday.  Her great grandparents on both sides were slaves.  She grew up in Mississippi and she was 8 years old or so when she looked out her bedroom window and a man was hanging off the tree across the yard.  What's more, her sister in Maryland died last February of cancer, her brother died of Covid in Chicago in March and her cousin died of Covid in Mississippi in April.  She has been on chemo for the past 5 years due to complications with lupus that I don't understand.  This has caused her bones to be very fragile like that Shyamalan movie causing her to have several fractures all over her body.  Talking to her yesterday gave me hope for the future.  All these terrible things have happened to her and continue to happen to her yet she is the most positive and upbeat person I have ever met in my life.  I asked her about race relations today and she said, direct quote, "these people don't know what racism is".

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20 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

venezuelan-immigrant-warns-america-about

It is interesting to me that when corrupt people are warned of pending downfall - It is dismissed as impossible because they are too powerful and established.  But I believe the warning and signs are not what so many are concerned about - the great downfall is looking away from G-d and his covenants for protection.  It is interesting that the ancient definition of righteous was to enter into covenant with G-d.  Not so much by compulsion but as an expression of freewill.  It is sad that we tend only to turn to G-d in crisis.   My most urgent and meaningful prayers are when I fear a crisis - seldom so earnest when I am experiencing bounty and should be thankful.

 

The Traveler

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I wish I could have been born in about the year 50 Anno Domini among the Nephites and Lamanites in the Americas.  That would have been a great time to live when these people had peace and were practicing consecration and serving the LORD.  I feel like the prophet Nephi who was upon his tower and praying in the book of Helaman.

Oh, that I could have had my days in the days when my father Nephi first came out of the land of Jerusalem, that I could have joyed
with him in the promised land; then were his people easy to be entreated, firm to keep the commandments of God, and slow to be led
to do iniquity; and they were quick to hearken unto the words of the Lord—

8 Yea, if my days could have been in those days, then would my soul have had joy in the righteousness of my brethren.

9 But behold, I am consigned that these are my days, and that my soul shall be filled with a sorrow because of this
the wickedness of my brethren.

Helaman 7:7-9

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26 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I wish I could have been born in about the year 50 Anno Domini among the Nephites and Lamanites in the Americas.  That would have been a great time to live when these people had peace and were practicing consecration and serving the LORD.  I feel like the prophet Nephi who was upon his tower and praying in the book of Helaman.

Oh, that I could have had my days in the days when my father Nephi first came out of the land of Jerusalem, that I could have joyed
with him in the promised land; then were his people easy to be entreated, firm to keep the commandments of God, and slow to be led
to do iniquity; and they were quick to hearken unto the words of the Lord—

8 Yea, if my days could have been in those days, then would my soul have had joy in the righteousness of my brethren.

9 But behold, I am consigned that these are my days, and that my soul shall be filled with a sorrow because of this
the wickedness of my brethren.

Helaman 7:7-9

I think we all long to live in Zion. That desire is implanted and nurtured in us by the kingdom of God, aka the Restored Church. But I do believe as a philosophical p oint that we are living in the time and the situation when we can learn what we need to learn. In some ways, we are not yet fit to dwell in Zion. If we could magically be transported back to the Nephite era of 50-100 AD, we might be dismayed to find that we don't feel what we thought we would. Cultural issues aside (and I'm sure that's why SSV said "born in 50 AD" rather than "transported to 50 AD"), I suspect most or all of us have personal or spiritual or other issues that would keep us from enjoying that Zion as we should. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty confident I do. So maybe we really do belong where and when we are, and it's a merciful God working toward our ultimate benefit that has placed us in the here and now.

That said, I share SSV's sentiment.

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I was thinking today that there is not much of this current world that I recognize from the world of my youth.   Generally I think I have lived a good life, so far but for sure; I am a long way from home.  I am a stranger in a strange land.  And so I wonder, in that day beyond this life when the Saints of all the dispensations of earth get together to reminisce our mortal experiences and I mentioned living in this time - how many will in aw, wonder how it was that I was so lucky to live in such a time.

 

The Traveler

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12 hours ago, Traveler said:

I was thinking today that there is not much of this current world that I recognize from the world of my youth.   Generally I think I have lived a good life, so far but for sure; I am a long way from home.  I am a stranger in a strange land.  And so I wonder, in that day beyond this life when the Saints of all the dispensations of earth get together to reminisce our mortal experiences and I mentioned living in this time - how many will in aw, wonder how it was that I was so lucky to live in such a time.

 

The Traveler

I also feel the world has changed drastically from when I was a youth.  It is a completely different world today.  We thought (at the time) that the world was extremely sinful.  That it could not get any worse than it was then.  Destruction was imminent (we all thought there would probably be a nuclear war in our lifetimes, or at least that was how I felt), and the second coming had to be right around the corner.

We had nothing with how evil the world is today.  The world is far worse and filled with sin than when I was young.  It's beyond what I could have even imagined it to be.  If you had told us that certain things would be legal today, we would have laughed at you and told you it would never happen. 

Technology on the otherhand has far surpassed science fiction in some ways.  We thought phones where we could talk to each other like over a TV would be futuristic.  We can do that on handheld devices today!  We have so much information at our fingertips and communications via the internet and phones it is amazing.  Once again, things beyond what I think we even imagined was possible.

It's a miraculous and yet terrible time to be alive.

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