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carlimac

Utahns! With COVID numbers rising, would you cancel a reunion?

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8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Ironically, we just came from a wonderful lunch with friends where we still managed to have a great time while wearing a mask and practicing social distancing while eating. 

You do realize that a  primary purpose of wearing a mask is to remind you not touch anything to your eyes or mouth in public.  😋

 

The Traveler

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8 hours ago, Traveler said:

You do realize that a  primary purpose of wearing a mask is to remind you not touch anything to your eyes or mouth in public.  😋

 

It's to keep your identity secret while you hold up liquor stores, but your answer is fine too. 

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's to keep your identity secret while you hold up liquor stores, but your answer is fine too. 

A interesting side note - from my work I spent many hours in "clean" fab (short for fabrication manufacturing) where all are required to be "gowned".  Everything is covered - even goggles are worn over your eyes making it difficult to determine the color.  And yet the regular workers easily recognized each other.  I asked how and I was told there are many clues to a person's identity - just in how they walk.

 

The Traveler

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8 minutes ago, Traveler said:

And yet the regular workers easily recognized each other.  I asked how and I was told there are many clues to a person's identity - just in how they walk.

That’s actually an excellent point my friend. You can probably tell a lot from that, more I think about it. 

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@Traveler-Thanks to you, I've been looking at how people walk all day. You were dead on my friend. 

Did anyone else notice this? 

Edited by MormonGator

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10 hours ago, Traveler said:

A interesting side note - from my work I spent many hours in "clean" fab (short for fabrication manufacturing) where all are required to be "gowned".  Everything is covered - even goggles are worn over your eyes making it difficult to determine the color.  And yet the regular workers easily recognized each other.  I asked how and I was told there are many clues to a person's identity - just in how they walk.

 

The Traveler

Yes, but much of that can be imitated.  It is difficult to imitate a face.

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12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, but much of that can be imitated.  It is difficult to imitate a face.

You would be surprised.  While a student at BYU there was a blind girl in my "student" family (for family home evening) that could identify who just came in a room - when I did not notice.  For fun and adventure (a dare) I spent a few hours of a weekend with her blindfolded while she led me around town.  In some ways the experience was quite terrifying but I came away from that experience realizing how much I depend on my sight.  When other clues are relied upon beyond a face and sight - I believe you would be amazed on what we communicate uniquely of ourselves to others.

 

The Traveler

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13 minutes ago, Traveler said:

You would be surprised.  While a student at BYU there was a blind girl in my "student" family (for family home evening) that could identify who just came in a room - when I did not notice.  For fun and adventure (a dare) I spent a few hours of a weekend with her blindfolded while she led me around town.  In some ways the experience was quite terrifying but I came away from that experience realizing how much I depend on my sight.  When other clues are relied upon beyond a face and sight

I don't see how this says that these things cannot be imitated.

Quote

I believe you would be amazed on what we communicate uniquely of ourselves to others.

Not really.  I'm already aware of all that you mentioned, and more.  I've made it a game most of my life.

Edited by Carborendum

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I don't see how this says that these things cannot be imitated.

Not really.  I'm already aware of all that you mentioned, and more.  I've made it a game most of my life.

Then you are aware that an expert can identify a forged signature that otherwise appear,s to the un-noticing eye, to be an autograph signature.   To an expert graphologist there are (sometimes ever so slight) distinctions between an autograph and autogram.

 

The Traveler

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1 minute ago, Traveler said:

Then you are aware that an expert can identify a forged signature that otherwise appear,s to the un-noticing eye, to be an autograph signature.   To an expert graphologist there are (sometimes ever so slight) distinctions between an autograph and autogram.

Clearly. This is a red herring.  Nothing you've said means that things cannot be imitated. You're simply saying that given enough expertise, people can spot imitations.  Not a refutation of my claim.  But for some reason, you think the two are mutually exclusive.

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Clearly. This is a red herring.  Nothing you've said means that things cannot be imitated. You're simply saying that given enough expertise, people can spot imitations.  Not a refutation of my claim.  But for some reason, you think the two are mutually exclusive.

I am of the idea that if one desires to know the truth - they can knock, seek and ask (the scripture recommendation) - I am aware of imitations and counterfeits but I believe anyone desiring truth - it is available to them.  It has been my impression that you believe somewhat the opposite - regardless of all knowable factors - that truth cannot be known - for sure.  If I have misread your responses - I apologize. 

 

The Traveler

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5 hours ago, Traveler said:

It has been my impression that you believe somewhat the opposite - regardless of all knowable factors - that truth cannot be known - for sure.  If I have misread your responses - I apologize. 

Yes.  You have misread.

Just because one can imitate, does not mean it cannot be detected.  It means it can be imitated.

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Update: Reunion was cancelled. But the organizer said she is still using the condo and anyone else who wants to come is still invited to come. So... Really just a faux cancellation.  Hence, EVERYONE except my family are staying in the condo. 26 people. My family would have made the numbers 48 plus a couple more nephews who either don't want to or can't go would have made 55 people. - all together in this condo. An ill conceived idea even without COVID.

My own kids ages 32 and down are much more concerned about this than even my husband and I.  My 28 yr old son in medical school has practically begged his Grandma not to go. He hasn't seen her since last Labor Day and would be devastated if she got it!   Only one of my daughters lives in Utah and she works in an Assisted Living center so she feels very strongly about being extremely careful. All the rest of us live on either the east or west coast or in Texas- areas of devastation by this virus.  The rest of the extended family live in the Salt Lake or Utah County areas.  Frankly, it's disturbing to watch the cognitive dissonance going on with them. Despite the Governor and Church leaders pleading for mask use and social distancing, nieces and nephews are forever posting stuff on social media of them with about 30 of their closest friends in different activities- not social distancing, no masks. Here are the comments or justifications I've heard-" All the positive cases are within the Hispanic communities (of which the family isn't), only 4 people in my ward have gotten it, it's just a political conspiracy, I don't know anyone who has died, well we're all seeing each other outside ( and jamming in close for photos with arms around each other), masks are just so ugly (said by 22 year old golden boy nephew), we can't cancel it because all my work reward trips were cancelled and this is my only vacation ( said in a whiney voice by a 30 year old who has already spent time at Bear Lake this summer)  and the best...Everyone is having family reunions!"   When my family says, "I'm sorry we just feel like we need to take it seriously". Or "we feel the responsibility to stay away" they get defensive and insist THEY ARE being responsible and taking it seriously.  😵 

I hate to say this but from the outside looking in, it has the optics of a very entitled group of people unwilling to sacrifice their fun for the greater good.  My own group of 20 may sound self righteous and pompous. I admit we may be. But we just don't get their attitude at all!  Also, Grandma who has FOMO herself is still going to "sneak up there". As if you sneak, it doesn't make it real. 

Edited by carlimac

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14 hours ago, carlimac said:

I hate to say this but from the outside looking in, it has the optics of a very entitled group of people unwilling to sacrifice their fun for the greater good.  My own group of 20 may sound self righteous and pompous. I admit we may be. But we just don't get their attitude at all!  Also, Grandma who has FOMO herself is still going to "sneak up there". As if you sneak, it doesn't make it real. 

My 84-year-old aunt is having a "we're not talking to each other" fight with my 80-year-old mother.  My 80-year-old mother is telling my 84-year-old aunt who flew to the USA all the way from the Philippines last March just to end up stuck in an apartment in LA to stop asking people to visit.  My aunt has been calling everybody because she wants to visit them.  Everybody in my family refused her visit except me.  I even told her I'll buy her ticket.  So now nobody is talking to me either.

This is why I told her I'll buy her ticket... this is what she tearfully said to me - "I am 84 years old.  I can die in my sleep tomorrow.  I don't want to die cowering in an apartment.  I want to spend everyday of what's left in my life to personally connect with my family and touch everybody's faces.  I'd rather visit you and die of covid rather than die peacefully in my sleep not having the chance to see your children except for 1 week when they were little."  Of course I said yes.  Infection rate in my city - 2,000.  Infection rate in LA - 80,000.  I work from home, my husband works from home, my son is a fisherman - if you're within 25 feet of a fisherman, you're too close.  We don't have the virus.  We all live by Faith in God, continuing to do good things, rather than Fear of Death.  No brainer. 

My entire family, led by my mother (her only living sibling), pressured her to stop our plans.   My mother told me - "If she dies of covid visiting you,  You are guilty of murder." 

So she went home to the Philippines yesterday - flying through multiple airplanes and multiple airports in multiple infected cities - never having visited anybody.  I thought to myself, "If she dies before she gets a chance to see my children, I will do everything in my power to have her temple work done over the objections of my mother and her children."

Edited by anatess2

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14 hours ago, carlimac said:

   When my family says, "I'm sorry we just feel like we need to take it seriously". Or "we feel the responsibility to stay away" they get defensive and insist THEY ARE being responsible and taking it seriously.  😵 

I hate to say this but from the outside looking in, it has the optics of a very entitled group of people unwilling to sacrifice their fun for the greater good.  My own group of 20 may sound self righteous and pompous. I admit we may be. But we just don't get their attitude at all!  Also, Grandma who has FOMO herself is still going to "sneak up there". As if you sneak, it doesn't make it real. 

My wife and I have gotten a lot of that too.  Our ward had an Girl's Quaran-camp in June.  Originally it was going to be almost all virtual, along with a scavenger hunt that could be done in the car.  It then evolved to include an opening breakfast at a park, 2 devotionals in the chapel, and a pool party.  My wife took our 12 year old daughter to the breakfast, and no one was wearing masks or distancing until my wife asked them to. When the text went out about the devotionals, there was no mention of masks.  My wife texted the YW Camp Director and asked for her to send another asking people to wear masks.  She told her no, it wasn't necessary.  (In Nevada it was part of the mandate) She took her anyway and one other family was wearing masks.  Everyone was sitting up front.  My wife and daughter sat near the back, alone.  We got a lot of comments about how we seem withdrawn, overly-cautious, and even aloof.

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