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carlimac

Utahns! With COVID numbers rising, would you cancel a reunion?

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We’ve had a reunion planned for 6 months. A very large condo reserved for 37 people to all stay together for 4 nights. Scheduled for the last week of July. Would you still do it? Or cancel? 
 

One person Is over 80. One person over 60 and all the rest are between 9 months and 58 years. 

Edited by carlimac

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If someone at this party gets Covid and dies, do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering if you were the one who passed it on to them? 

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11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If someone at this party gets Covid and dies, do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering if you were the one who passed it on to them? 

No I don’t! The family is doggedly going ahead with it. Apparently they fasted and prayed about it and felt they could still do it. 

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3 minutes ago, carlimac said:

No I don’t! The family is doggedly going ahead with it. Apparently they fasted and prayed about it and felt they could still do it. 

Then there isn't much you can do. Good luck-sorry your family made that choice. 

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I'm not a Utahn. But yes, I would go to the family reunion, and take all my children who wanted to go.

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I cancelled a trip in March, and we're waiting to give High School graduate daughter some sort of fun vacation trip thing, because of COVID-19.  Mamma and I are not old, but we both have nasty preexisting health conditions.

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If the ones who would be susceptible are aware of the risk, shouldn't they choose to go or not? If 80 year old decides to stay home for fear of contracting something, then why should the others not go? Or if 80 year old decides that risking catching it is worth it, why do you get to choose differently? I really am trying to understand. If the majority are in favor of still having it, that doesn't negate the individual choices.

I understand that family dynamics may mean some hard feelings or whatever, but perhaps I'm heartless....but if you want to get your panties in a twist because I choose to do something differently than you, it's your twisted panties not mine.

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I absolutely would and am.

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

If someone at this party gets Covid and dies, do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering if you were the one who passed it on to them? 

Easy way to avoid this. Say “hey we are holding the family reunion, if you are worried, then don’t come”

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This family has FOMO like none other. And not much medical knowledge. 82 year old finished chemo six months ago. Just wants everyone else to be happy. 
 

The rub is that the organizer family member who personally knows the owner of the condo refuses to ask for a refund. We’ve all paid dearly into this and would lose big money. So because she still wants to have her vacation, (as well as 82 yr old and a couple others) the rest of us are obligated, or at least look like scared ninnies if we opt out. She says she’d refund us but she doesn’t have that much money. 

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33 minutes ago, carlimac said:

This family has FOMO like none other. And not much medical knowledge. 82 year old finished chemo six months ago. Just wants everyone else to be happy. 
 

The rub is that the organizer family member who personally knows the owner of the condo refuses to ask for a refund. We’ve all paid dearly into this and would lose big money. So because she still wants to have her vacation, (as well as 82 yr old and a couple others) the rest of us are obligated, or at least look like scared ninnies if we opt out. She says she’d refund us but she doesn’t have that much money. 

You got to respect individuals choices.  Others shouldn't be making your choice or guilting you into a choice.

If your primary concern is health risk, then the money should not be the prevailing factor in your individual choice.

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8 hours ago, carlimac said:

This family has FOMO like none other. And not much medical knowledge. 82 year old finished chemo six months ago. Just wants everyone else to be happy. 
 

The rub is that the organizer family member who personally knows the owner of the condo refuses to ask for a refund. We’ve all paid dearly into this and would lose big money. So because she still wants to have her vacation, (as well as 82 yr old and a couple others) the rest of us are obligated, or at least look like scared ninnies if we opt out. She says she’d refund us but she doesn’t have that much money. 

This sounds like what I hear is going on in Utah.  I talked to one of my acquaintances recently who has friends and family in Utah in the heart of where the cases are rising...and...big surprise...the wards there just started meeting.

That is just asking for lawsuits.  The church should start expecting lawsuits against them in...oh...perhaps 4-6 weeks if the cases keep rising and there are deaths that result from them.  There will be people that are elderly that will not have gone anywhere else but church, and that will put a big red target on those wards (and invariably, the argument is to sue the organization with the most money....so probably not the Bishop, but the church itself) for the children and grandchildren to sue (and, even if the members are those who would never sue, there are a LOT of people which have children and grandchildren that are not members...and some of those can be rather bitter).

It also defies common sense to me...but then...Both sides of the political spectrum seem to be lacking common sense these days (those who have no worries or concerns about the virus whatsoever on one side despite what the general medical and scientific consensus is...vs...those who seem to want to get in large groups to protest, riot, and loot all in the name of politics and spread the virus among them like Halloween candy for all they care about it) in regards to taking care of others.

That said, if the question was up to me personally, I'd cancel the reunion.  I know of one friend who died because an irresponsible child of theirs came from a highly infected area and visited with her for a few days.  The child turned up to have Covid-19 and passed it onto their parents, of which one died.  I'm not sure how that child lives with themselves...

On the otherhand, I know some grandparents my age that also just go out and do their own thing.  I'm not sure of their reasonings, but one who is currently undergoing chemo seems to be the most enthusiastic about going off in public and even spots where it seems Covid-19 Cases were popping up to the point that sometimes I wonder if they have a deathwish.  Unsurprisingly they also are pushing HARD to have church meetings resume. 

However, nothing matches what I've heard about what they are doing in Utah (resuming church meetings for example in the middle of the Utah and SLC counties where the outbreak in Utah is the worst?  I could understand it in one or two of the counties down south where it appears they have very few cases...but up North in the heart of the worst counties hit in Utah [at least from the numbers I've seen]...that seems absolutely careless and disregarding everything the general consensus (as opposed to a few individual scientists and doctors) have said.

If the family is from Utah though, it sounds about right with the current attitudes in some areas...at least from the local information I've heard leaking out about Utah itself recently from other people I know who have connections there. 

I actually have some family there as well, but I haven't really brought up anything about that to them in discussion.  Normally I've discussed more about whether they are safe, and how life is happening in general.  They don't indicate they have any plans for going out recently or currently, so it also could be that there are those like them as well that have no ambitions to go out currently.

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11 hours ago, Fether said:

Easy way to avoid this. Say “hey we are holding the family reunion, if you are worried, then don’t come”

I wish we had the Covid crisis when my mom was dragging me to family reunions back in 1994. It would give me a good excuse to stay home and play video games. 

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12 hours ago, carlimac said:

We’ve had a reunion planned for 6 months. A very large condo reserved for 37 people to all stay together for 4 nights. Scheduled for the last week of July. Would you still do it? Or cancel? 
 

One person Is over 80. One person over 60 and all the rest are between 9 months and 58 years. 

I won't cancel it.  If people show up, great, if they don't great.  I'd encourage everyone to go and get tested prior to the event.  This might be the last chance your 80 year old relative will see everyone together.  As my 84-year-old aunt just told me - I'd rather see you then die of covid rather than not see you and die in my sleep.

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

This sounds like what I hear is going on in Utah.  I talked to one of my acquaintances recently who has friends and family in Utah in the heart of where the cases are rising...and...big surprise...the wards there just started meeting.

That is just asking for lawsuits.  The church should start expecting lawsuits against them in...oh...perhaps 4-6 weeks if the cases keep rising and there are deaths that result from them.  There will be people that are elderly that will not have gone anywhere else but church, and that will put a big red target on those wards (and invariably, the argument is to sue the organization with the most money....so probably not the Bishop, but the church itself) for the children and grandchildren to sue (and, even if the members are those who would never sue, there are a LOT of people which have children and grandchildren that are not members...and some of those can be rather bitter).

It also defies common sense to me...but then...Both sides of the political spectrum seem to be lacking common sense these days (those who have no worries or concerns about the virus whatsoever on one side despite what the general medical and scientific consensus is...vs...those who seem to want to get in large groups to protest, riot, and loot all in the name of politics and spread the virus among them like Halloween candy for all they care about it) in regards to taking care of others.

That said, if the question was up to me personally, I'd cancel the reunion.  I know of one friend who died because an irresponsible child of theirs came from a highly infected area and visited with her for a few days.  The child turned up to have Covid-19 and passed it onto their parents, of which one died.  I'm not sure how that child lives with themselves...

On the otherhand, I know some grandparents my age that also just go out and do their own thing.  I'm not sure of their reasonings, but one who is currently undergoing chemo seems to be the most enthusiastic about going off in public and even spots where it seems Covid-19 Cases were popping up to the point that sometimes I wonder if they have a deathwish.  Unsurprisingly they also are pushing HARD to have church meetings resume. 

However, nothing matches what I've heard about what they are doing in Utah (resuming church meetings for example in the middle of the Utah and SLC counties where the outbreak in Utah is the worst?  I could understand it in one or two of the counties down south where it appears they have very few cases...but up North in the heart of the worst counties hit in Utah [at least from the numbers I've seen]...that seems absolutely careless and disregarding everything the general consensus (as opposed to a few individual scientists and doctors) have said.

If the family is from Utah though, it sounds about right with the current attitudes in some areas...at least from the local information I've heard leaking out about Utah itself recently from other people I know who have connections there. 

I actually have some family there as well, but I haven't really brought up anything about that to them in discussion.  Normally I've discussed more about whether they are safe, and how life is happening in general.  They don't indicate they have any plans for going out recently or currently, so it also could be that there are those like them as well that have no ambitions to go out currently.

If only our church leadership had legal counsel as good as you

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

This sounds like what I hear is going on in Utah.  I talked to one of my acquaintances recently who has friends and family in Utah in the heart of where the cases are rising...and...big surprise...the wards there just started meeting.

That is just asking for lawsuits.  The church should start expecting lawsuits against them in...oh...perhaps 4-6 weeks if the cases keep rising and there are deaths that result from them.  There will be people that are elderly that will not have gone anywhere else but church, and that will put a big red target on those wards (and invariably, the argument is to sue the organization with the most money....so probably not the Bishop, but the church itself) for the children and grandchildren to sue (and, even if the members are those who would never sue, there are a LOT of people which have children and grandchildren that are not members...and some of those can be rather bitter).

It also defies common sense to me...but then...Both sides of the political spectrum seem to be lacking common sense these days (those who have no worries or concerns about the virus whatsoever on one side despite what the general medical and scientific consensus is...vs...those who seem to want to get in large groups to protest, riot, and loot all in the name of politics and spread the virus among them like Halloween candy for all they care about it) in regards to taking care of others.

That said, if the question was up to me personally, I'd cancel the reunion.  I know of one friend who died because an irresponsible child of theirs came from a highly infected area and visited with her for a few days.  The child turned up to have Covid-19 and passed it onto their parents, of which one died.  I'm not sure how that child lives with themselves...

On the otherhand, I know some grandparents my age that also just go out and do their own thing.  I'm not sure of their reasonings, but one who is currently undergoing chemo seems to be the most enthusiastic about going off in public and even spots where it seems Covid-19 Cases were popping up to the point that sometimes I wonder if they have a deathwish.  Unsurprisingly they also are pushing HARD to have church meetings resume. 

However, nothing matches what I've heard about what they are doing in Utah (resuming church meetings for example in the middle of the Utah and SLC counties where the outbreak in Utah is the worst?  I could understand it in one or two of the counties down south where it appears they have very few cases...but up North in the heart of the worst counties hit in Utah [at least from the numbers I've seen]...that seems absolutely careless and disregarding everything the general consensus (as opposed to a few individual scientists and doctors) have said.

If the family is from Utah though, it sounds about right with the current attitudes in some areas...at least from the local information I've heard leaking out about Utah itself recently from other people I know who have connections there. 

I actually have some family there as well, but I haven't really brought up anything about that to them in discussion.  Normally I've discussed more about whether they are safe, and how life is happening in general.  They don't indicate they have any plans for going out recently or currently, so it also could be that there are those like them as well that have no ambitions to go out currently.

Really? Only people in Utah have bad attitudes about this? Worse than anywhere else? Church leaders are absolutely careless and disregard everything related to the general consensus? Really? I mean, it's not like the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have multiple doctors and lawyers serving...oh wait...they do.

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12 hours ago, carlimac said:

This family has FOMO like none other. And not much medical knowledge. 82 year old finished chemo six months ago. Just wants everyone else to be happy. 
 

The rub is that the organizer family member who personally knows the owner of the condo refuses to ask for a refund. We’ve all paid dearly into this and would lose big money. So because she still wants to have her vacation, (as well as 82 yr old and a couple others) the rest of us are obligated, or at least look like scared ninnies if we opt out. She says she’d refund us but she doesn’t have that much money. 

We have reservations for a family reunion in Colorado in August.  The oldest person there will be 92 years old.  And the biggest regret we have is that the site is enforcing the 6 ft distancing requirement. And in the units themselves, we're only allowed to have 10 people together at a time.  That kinda kills any socializing between our households.  One has 11, couple others at 9, others near that.

But, yes, we're all excited about it.

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7 hours ago, scottyg said:

Really? Only people in Utah have bad attitudes about this? Worse than anywhere else? Church leaders are absolutely careless and disregard everything related to the general consensus? Really? I mean, it's not like the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have multiple doctors and lawyers serving...oh wait...they do.

It's the LOCAL Church leaders that made the decisions on this though...right?

Our ward is not meeting.  Most of the world wards and stakes are not meeting.  Most of the world is doing a LOT better than the US right now...and they are not meeting. 

Of course, we are not in Utah.

It's not JUST a Utah thing though, there are other churches that have met in other states...people got sick...people died...and now...some of them are getting sued, shut down, and worse.  They probably won't have to worry about what happened to some as the Church is not breaking the law (some of them met while stay at home orders were going on in violation of those orders and thus the leaders were arrested, not going to happen in Utah I don't think), but the precedence shown by other churches SHOULD be an indicator of what to expect.

Thus, LEGALLY stupid. 

Unfortunately, if lawsuits arise (and there also seems to be a LOT more bitter ex-members in Utah as well, so far more likely to occur...in my opinion), they are not gong to go after the local Bishop or Stake President most likely, it will probably be the Church (much like lawsuits against franchises at times don't go against the franchise owner, but against the company itself).

As I said though, for Church members, most in the rest of the World are NOT meeting right now.  We can see the disaster in Utah going on in numbers, graphs, etc.  Why they would open wards up in the middle of such a thing, when much of the rest of the church in places where it is not going as badly are not..speaks MORE about Utah than the Church itself. 

Some of those that are meeting are meeting in places where the risk is FAR less then it was, and the cases have gone down to the point where it is FAR safer.  They are not in the middle of cases rising every day and beating records.  They normally are not in a position where it is worse now than it was before the shutdowns.  But, beyond those, most wards and stakes still are not meeting, even in places where it is seen as far safer.

That's why I said, if they are meeting in Utah with wards...it's NOT a Church thing...it's a UTAH thing.

And fits with the spectrum of some of those in Utah wanting to do anything and everything to risk others...as it seems to be starting to show a pattern of Utah.

Edit: This does not mean that EVERYONE in Utah is like that, just enough to do things like start up meetings when the numbers are worse now than they were when the shutdowns started.  As I mentioned, family I have in Utah have not mentioned going out and all indications are that they are NOT going out and doing all sorts of activities...so there ARE those that also are not like others.  However, enough are doing things which makes the collective world scratch their heads...that more things like this coming out of Utah are probably NOT going to surprise me as it is just what appears to be a Utah thing.

Though, other states ALSO are having multiple problems (not the Church as far as I know though, most of the wards seem to NOT be meeting at this time), bad enough that Europe has a ban coming in place on travel on July 1 if the news I've read is right.

 

Edited by JohnsonJones

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23 hours ago, carlimac said:

We’ve had a reunion planned for 6 months. A very large condo reserved for 37 people to all stay together for 4 nights. Scheduled for the last week of July. Would you still do it? Or cancel? 

Personally I'd postpone it.   

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15 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

It's the LOCAL Church leaders that made the decisions on this though...right?

No, Bishops and Stake Presidents were asked by area authorities to begin prayerfully developing plans on how to hold meetings again. Stake presidents were then asked to have those meeting plans (created with Bishops) approved by their Area Seventy, and be incorporated into the area plan. The practices vary between church area and stake, but all of their plans are approved by church headquarters. Again, local leaders were told to start holding meetings again. They are not doing this on their own, but are given the freedom to develop some parts of their plan. Some aspects of plans have been approved, some rejected, and other aspects are requirements from the First presidency. The individual stake and area plans may be different, but all are approved by the General Authorities. We have one Bishop in our Stake who is very much opposed to meeting again, but he is following the guidance of his leaders to meet, and his ward has been greatly blessed.

Other in-person Sunday meetings outside of Sacrament Meeting, such as Relief Society and Priesthood meetings, are not approved by the First Presidency at this time. Other church functions, such as Baptisms and Weddings, can be held if the maximum number of participants in less than 20, and weekly youth meetings/activities can be held if the number is also under 20, and if social distancing is practiced throughout the activity...this has not yet happened in our stake as we cannot trust the kids to practice social distancing yet.

Wards here are not going rogue. Church leadership is fully aware of all meetings taking place. If you want to know why the church would open wards in certain areas, or want to comment on how legally stupid you think our leaders are, I recommend you write to church headquarters and share your feelings. Be sure to let them know how you know better than them, and how people in Utah want to do anything and everything to risk others.

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16 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Our ward is not meeting.  Most of the world wards and stakes are not meeting.  Most of the world is doing a LOT better than the US right now...and they are not meeting. 

Define BETTER.

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On 6/28/2020 at 6:46 PM, carlimac said:

We’ve had a reunion planned for 6 months. A very large condo reserved for 37 people to all stay together for 4 nights. Scheduled for the last week of July. Would you still do it? Or cancel? 
 

One person Is over 80. One person over 60 and all the rest are between 9 months and 58 years. 

Utah has currently risen and New York has currently fallen to about the same risk of threat.  New York is suddenly safe (except for other problems of violence) and Utah is now considered unsafe???

If anyone is concerned with the "science" as per @MormonGator@JohnsonJonesor anyone else - then have everybody in the family tested.

 

As a side note - I have a daughter and others I know that have spent every working day  of this crisis in hospitals caring for those in critical need because of COVID-19 (often those providing care have  not had enough of the recommended safety gear) -- many of that received the care have died.  Everyday my daughter returns to a home with two individuals considered a great risk to COVID-19.  None in my daughter's home have been tested - yet.   I believe we could solve the world's renewable energy crisis if we could figure out how to harness the wasted energy of worrying.   Not the worrying that was worth it - just the worthless worrying. 

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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38 minutes ago, Traveler said:

  I believe we could solve the world's renewable energy crisis if we could figure out how to harness the wasted energy of worrying.   Not the worrying that was worth it - just the worthless worrying. 

 

The Traveler

We can reverse climate change by harnessing the energy of Fear on top of the Worrying!

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

If anyone is concerned with the "science" as per @MormonGator@JohnsonJonesor anyone else - then have everybody in the family tested.

 

It's irrelevant to me. Luckily in my life 99% of the people I associate with wear masks, get tested, etc. We even wear masks while doing tae kwan do. So, if we can do intense work outs while wearing masks, I have no sympathy for anyone who complains about it. It no longer surprises me that some people don't wear masks. I find it both amusing and if I'm being honest, a little pathetic. 

Ironically, we just came from a wonderful lunch with friends where we still managed to have a great time while wearing a mask and practicing social distancing while eating. 

Edited by MormonGator

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13 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

????

dont-put-the-feedbag-on.jpg?resize=713,4

Dude, that was me three years ago. I've put on more weight since then. 

And we had a healthier food today pal, it wasn't Taco Bell. 

(we had pizza instead!) 

Edited by MormonGator

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