Carborendum

Temples And Protection

Recommended Posts

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 1:17 AM, Carborendum said:

While I concede that simply "going" has benefits in and of itself, I don't see why you would be arguing that to fall asleep during a session provides absolutely equal levels of benefits as someone who would be fully engaged during the process.

If I was a deceased spirit in paradise and waited centuries for my work on earth to be done, I would not be picky about who did the work for me, it would matter not one bit if the person dosed off in the session, if the person was overweight, happy, sad, single, an ex-convict, a politician etc....All that matters was that the work was done by an imperfect yet worthy human being.

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 2:11 AM, Carborendum said:

It is a fine thing that others are blessed because of "going through a session."  But the true blessings and protection of the temple come from actual "worship" while in the temple.

Unless you are the one issuing out the blessings I think you shouldn't say who gets the "true" blessings. This suggests that some people are better then others when everyone is at different levels and trying their best. My guess is that Gods ways are not our ways. Have you heard of LDS members who said they prayed hard and fasted hard for years with out ever receiving answers or even feeling the spirit? What should we say to these people? "you are not worshipping good enough!"

I am a lucky one that received a miraculous blessing after only my 3rd temple visit before going on my mission at 19yrs old. I was hardly a focused kid at the time and would be described as someone that was just "going through a session".

 

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 1:17 AM, Carborendum said:

While I concede that simply "going" has benefits in and of itself, I don't see why you would be arguing that to fall asleep during a session provides absolutely equal levels of benefits as someone who would be fully engaged during the process.

From a personal development and spiritual stand point. I agree, someone that is more engaged and eagerly seeking guidance will benefit more.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said:

Unless you are the one issuing out the blessings I think you shouldn't say who gets the "true" blessings. This suggests that some people are better then others when everyone is at different levels and trying their best.

NEWS FLASH

Notorious Blessingsist Proclaims That "Some People Are Better Than Others"

"Virtue is not evenly distributed", infamous list member intimates

5 July 2020 (THP)—Early Sunday evening, Mister @Carborendum, long-time list member, was roundly excoriated for having implied that virtue was not evenly distributed among all living human beings. While not outright stating this, Carborendum claimed that "the true blessings and protection of the temple come from actual 'worship' while in the temple," an open dog whistle to the blessingsists. Going even further than this, Carborendum appeared to suggest quite openly that those who pay attention during temple sessions receive more benefits than those who sleep their way through. "I don't see why you would be arguing that to fall asleep during a session provides absolutely equal levels of benefits as someone who would be fully engaged during the process," Carborendum blustered upon cross-examination.

Carborendum's tirade was interrupted by the cool rationality of Mister @priesthoodpower, who calmly observed, "Unless you are the one issuing out the blessings I think you shouldn't say who gets the 'true' blessings. This suggests that some people are better then others when everyone is at different levels and trying their best." Though priesthoodpower offered no actual evidence that "everyone is...trying their best," observers agreed that the statement is obviously true and practically a tautology. Carborendum has yet to respond, with rumors that he has gone into hiding to bury his shame and humiliation.

This is a breaking story. THP will update as events progress.

Edited by Vort

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said:

I don't quote one person, although the one person likes to quote me a lot. 

My apologies for occupying space in his mind. Dude must not sleep well at night.

NEWS FLASH

List Member Occupying Space In Another List Member's Mind

No rental terms released yet

5 July 2020 (THP)—Mister @priesthoodpower of ThirdHour revealed Sunday evening that he was "occupying space" in the mind of another list member. There was no indication of rental or other financial agreements, leading some to speculate that his occupation of the mind was "rent-free". priesthoodpower has not yet responded to this allegation, but informed sources suggest that this CHAZ-like squatting may be in retribution for the brain space others have taken rent-free in priesthoodpower's own mind through the years.

priesthoodpower expressed regret for this unauthorized occupation, tearfully proclaiming, "My apologies for occupying space in his mind." He then went on to speculate about the ill effects of his extralegal occupation, worrying that "Dude must not sleep well at night."

The identity of the victim of priesthoodpower's mental occupation was not explicitly identified. Most who are close to the situation suspect he is referring to @pam, who functions as the list custodian and behind-the-scenes disciplinarian. One unnamed source disputed this, saying that the use of the noun "Dude" and the pronoun "his" clearly suggest a male victim. The unnamed source was quickly condemned by all involved as a blatant sexist. Nevertheless, the possibility of a male victim, while distasteful, withstands scrutiny. Some have suggested that @Just_A_Guy is the victim of priesthoodpower's occupation, while others point to @MormonGator. A few even suggest that, in an ironic twist, @Carborendum himself lies at the center of the controversy. A second anonymous source named @anatess2 as the real occupyee. When it was pointed out that anatess was in fact female, the source responded, "Well, yeah, but she watches MMA."

Edited by Vort

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vort said:

NEWS FLASH

List Member Occupying Space In Another List Member's Mind

No rental terms released yet

5 July 2020 (THP)—Mister @priesthoodpower of ThirdHour revealed Sunday evening that he was "occupying space" in the mind of another list member. There was no indication of rental or other financial agreements, leading some to speculate that his occupation of the mind was "rent-free". priesthoodpower has not yet responded to this allegation, but informed sources suggest that this CHAZ-like squatting may be in retribution for the brain space others have taken rent-free in priesthoodpower's own mind through the years.

priesthoodpower expressed regret for this unauthorized occupation, tearfully proclaiming, "My apologies for occupying space in his mind." He then went on to speculate about the ill effects of his extralegal occupation, worrying that "Dude must not sleep well at night."

The identity of the victim of priesthoodpower's mental occupation was not explicitly identified. Most who are close to the situation suspect he is referring to @pam, who functions as the list custodian and behind-the-scenes disciplinarian. One unnamed source disputed this, saying that the use of the noun "Dude" and the pronoun "his" clearly suggest a male victim. The unnamed source was quickly condemned by all involved as a blatant sexist. Nevertheless, the possibility of a male victim, while distasteful, withstands scrutiny. Some have suggested that @Just_A_Guy is the victim of priesthoodpower's occupation, while others point to @MormonGator. A few even suggest that, in an ironic twist, @Carborendum himself lies at the center of the controversy. A second anonymous source named @anatess2 as the real occupyee. When it was pointed out that anatess was in fact female, the source responded, "Well, yeah, but she watches MMA."

And now I'll have to call on my lawyer to sue you for doxxing your anonymous source, especially the mention of female and MMA.  July 17 is an important Fight Night with a very popular female headliner in Namajunes, which gives BLM, antifa, and free-renters a target to ruin my day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

If I was a deceased spirit in paradise and waited centuries for my work on earth to be done, I would not be picky about who did the work for me, it would matter not one bit if the person dosed off in the session, if the person was overweight, happy, sad, single, an ex-convict, a politician etc....All that matters was that the work was done by an imperfect yet worthy human being.

I had already conceded this point.  I don't know why you feel the need to reiterate the point other than virtue signalling.

8 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

Unless you are the one issuing out the blessings I think you shouldn't say who gets the "true" blessings. This suggests that some people are better then others when everyone is at different levels and trying their best. My guess is that Gods ways are not our ways. Have you heard of LDS members who said they prayed hard and fasted hard for years with out ever receiving answers or even feeling the spirit? What should we say to these people? "you are not worshipping good enough!"

No I'd say,"You're not worshiping well enough."  Just kidding.

It's a good thing I was only paraphrasing a scripture and not declaring something of my own knowledge and understanding.

Quote

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 -- D&C 130:20-21

8 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

I am a lucky one that received a miraculous blessing after only my 3rd temple visit before going on my mission at 19yrs old. I was hardly a focused kid at the time and would be described as someone that was just "going through a session".

Well, good for you.  Nice virtue signalling.

8 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

From a personal development and spiritual stand point. I agree, someone that is more engaged and eagerly seeking guidance will benefit more.  

I'm glad we agree on something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, laronius said:

@Carborendum

Here is at least one instance, Elder Perry quoting Elder Stapley:

"Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said about covenants:

“The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and his people. … When baptized by an authorized servant of God, we covenant to do God’s will and to obey his commandments. … By partaking of the Sacrament we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of his Son, to always remember him and keep his commandments” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1965, 14)."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2006/04/as-now-we-take-the-sacrament?lang=eng

It seems like Elder Bednar quoted him as well but I could be wrong. This of course doesn't constitute "official doctrine" but from a strictly doctrinal point of view, if by partaking of the sacrament we are renewing the covenant to keep the Lord's commandments then I would have to assume that includes our temple covenants. But I guess it comes down to how you define "renew" and its purpose. If the object of renewal revolves around the repentance process and as being preparatory for making and keeping temple covenants then you can make the case for the sacrament being strictly a baptismal covenant renewal. But if on the other hand we view renewing it in the larger context of reaffirming our standing with the Lord and our covenant relationship with Him then we must include the covenants made in the temple. Either way you can make valid points and I don't really have a dog in the fight though based on my current understanding I would lean more towards a renewal of all covenants.

 

 

In one of the talks by Elder Bednar (I think it may have been his most recent one where he discusses religious freedom but also the need for government and it's protections for people and life) he talks about the need to take the sacrament.

My impression was not that taking the sacrament itself renews all our covenants.  My impression was that because of the covenants of the sacrament that the Holy Ghost can always be with us, and by doing so, it is this that renews the covenants we make at Baptism.

Part of this is due to the Holy Spirit of Promise.  Every ordinance is dependent upon being sealed upon our heads by the Holy Spirit of Promise.  One way to view this is when we have the Holy Ghost, we have the promises of the Lord upon us.  It is the Spirit that cleanses and purifies like fire, and with it, we can also be cleaned from sin and the promises we have made in our covenants renewed upon us.

During the sacrament we make the promises which in return let us to have the Spirit to always be with us.  It is through the Spirit that repentance, forgiveness, and renewal can be felt and how our covenants are renewed...if I understand what he was saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Well, good for you.  Nice virtue signalling.

Hey Carb, to repay for the joy of watching your watermelons grow I'm gonna teach you the art of the non-argument (where someone is presenting an argument not for discussion but for virtue signal).  The answer to all non-argument questions is Yes. 

"To say All Lives Matter is to support white supremacists.  Are you a white supremacist?"  The answer is "Yes".

"Have you heard of LDS members who said they prayed hard and fasted hard for years with out ever receiving answers or even feeling the spirit? What should we say to these people? "you are not worshipping good enough!"?"  The answer is "Yes."

:)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm glad we agree on something.

The older I get the more frustrated I become that life is not as simple or as perfect as I thought it would be. Im talking about the many ex-members that leave with out voicing their reasons causing us as a church to not have real solutions to address those problems which in most cases are preventable/fixable.

It really hit close to home when 4yrs ago my ex-wife left the church and convinced the kids that they should leave too. I saw it all play out and can say that barriers were put up and all three parties are to blame (my ex, the church and church members). All three are suffering right now. The answer is forgiveness and repentance but how do we bring down those barriers? I believe it will take a shift in LDS culture.

I actually agree with everything gospel related that LDS members (including you Carb) post in here. In debating Im learning. Im not going to apologize for sounding frustrated because I am but please understand that im not directing anything toward you individually, im usually always thinking about the three parties when Im typing (ex-members, the church and church members).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2020 at 3:00 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Art thou the only “Christian” in a forum full of Mormon heretics, and knowest not these things? ;)

When did the Holy of Holies (restricted to one male High Priest once a year in the Old 
Testament) become like the celestial room in the LDS temple (where even women are
allowed to enter several times per year)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jonah said:

When did the Holy of Holies (restricted to one male High Priest once a year in the Old 
Testament) become like the celestial room in the LDS temple (where even women are
allowed to enter several times per year)?

Well, the temple was destroyed, and then there were no more temples until the 1800's.  So I'd have to say it became like the celestial room in the LDS temple, with the restoration of the Gospel.

Is there any possible other way to answer the question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jonah said:

When did the Holy of Holies (restricted to one male High Priest once a year in the Old 
Testament) become like the celestial room in the LDS temple (where even women are
allowed to enter several times per year)?

I don't pretend to be an expert in this (or any) topic but when comparing things in the Old Testament to things now we must take into consideration the fact that they were not always operating under the same Law as we are. The Melchizedek Priesthood and it's powers were not generally available to the people where as the lesser or Aaronic Priesthood was. Consequently not everything available to us in the dispensation of the fullness of time was available then. 

But to address your question more specifically, when Moses (who held the Melchizedek Priesthood) was tasked with bringing the Israelites out of Egypt it was not simply to free them from physical bondage. Moses brought them specifically to Mount Sinai with the intent to take them up into the mountain and into the Lord's presence (think temple). But the people refused and instead committed terrible sins and were cursed not to enter into the promised land. After that time the people were also not allowed to enter into the Holy of Holies (the Lord's presence). Rather the High Priest acting as a mediator (think Jesus Christ) entered on their behalf. Then we fast forward to Christ's time. During His mortal ministry he taught the fullness of the gospel and restored the Melchizedek Priesthood and its keys back among men. Then at His death the veil of the temple was torn thus symbolically opening back up the way for us to enter His presence again. 

If I'm off somewhere I'm sure someone will correct or clarify but that is how I understand it. But I think a key take away in all this is that we are as a world now preparing to enter the Lord's presence but on a global scale at His Second Coming. Except this will be more like "Ready or not here I come" and if we are not ready that great and terrible day will be more terrible than great if you know what I mean. So we need to be preparing now and the temple helps us do just that. 

Edited by laronius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@prisonchaplain,

I'm curious, what is the Pentecostal interpretation of the rending of the temple veil at the death of the Savior?

Matt 27:51 

Mark 15:38

For us, it the Holy of Holies was the presence of God.  So, prior to the Atonement of Christ, mankind would not be permitted into the presence of the God. But after the Atonement was completed, we could return to His presence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jonah said:

When did the Holy of Holies (restricted to one male High Priest once a year in the Old 
Testament) become like the celestial room in the LDS temple (where even women are
allowed to enter several times per year)?

I believe LDS temples still have a Holy of Holies, and it is normally not the Celestial Room, but another room (which I think) is situated above it at some point in the temple. 

It is not something most members have access to or enter and thus some of who can or cannot enter is with rumor.  The rumor goes that only the prophet enters, and it is the prophet that is also responsible for the cleaning and keeping up of that area as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jonah said:

When did the Holy of Holies (restricted to one male High Priest once a year in the Old 
Testament) become like the celestial room in the LDS temple (where even women are
allowed to enter several times per year)?

No one said they are *exactly* alike in every way.  What I said was:

It had a Holy of Holies, which like modern celestial rooms represented coming back into the presence of the very throne of God.

The specific uses of the various rooms, and the liturgies themselves, differ widely between modern LDS temples and ancient Israelitish ones.  But both, speaking broadly, housed a series of rituals in which a human symbolically draws ever-nearer to, and eventually returns to, the presence of God Himself.  

52 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I believe LDS temples still have a Holy of Holies, and it is normally not the Celestial Room, but another room (which I think) is situated above it at some point in the temple. 

It is not something most members have access to or enter and thus some of who can or cannot enter is with rumor.  The rumor goes that only the prophet enters, and it is the prophet that is also responsible for the cleaning and keeping up of that area as well.

Others can enter those rooms to receive specific ordinances under apostolic authority (which ordinances are not liturgically the same as those performed by the ancient “high priests” of the Aaronic order in an ancient “Holy of Holies”).  And in modern practice many (most) of these rooms even double as sealing rooms under ordinary circumstances (though the one in the Salt Lake Temple does not).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@prisonchaplain,

I'm curious, what is the Pentecostal interpretation of the rending of the temple veil at the death of the Savior?

Matt 27:51 

Mark 15:38

For us, it the Holy of Holies was the presence of God.  So, prior to the Atonement of Christ, mankind would not be permitted into the presence of the God. But after the Atonement was completed, we could return to His presence.

I checked my Fire Bible, since the study notes are mostly provided by Pentecostal professors. For Mt 27:51 it references Ex. 26:33 and largely agrees that there is now a way opened into the presence of God--breaking down the separation between God and sinful humanity. Before only the high priest could come into God's presence, and only under strict circumstances. Now that the veil is torn all surrendered souls have full access to God the Father, thanks to Jesus sacrifice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I checked my Fire Bible, since the study notes are mostly provided by Pentecostal professors. For Mt 27:51 it references Ex. 26:33 and largely agrees that there is now a way opened into the presence of God--breaking down the separation between God and sinful humanity. Before only the high priest could come into God's presence, and only under strict circumstances. Now that the veil is torn all surrendered souls have full access to God the Father, thanks to Jesus sacrifice.

Sounds pretty much the same as how we see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2020 at 1:59 AM, prisonchaplain said:

Now that the veil is torn all surrendered souls have full access to God the Father, thanks to Jesus sacrifice

Through Jesus our High Priest or do we require an earthly high priest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/7/2020 at 8:02 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

The specific uses of the various rooms, and the liturgies themselves, differ widely between modern LDS temples and ancient Israelitish ones.  But both, speaking broadly, housed a series of rituals in which a human symbolically draws ever-nearer to, and eventually returns to, the presence of God Himself.

What are the major similarities between the Old Testament temple and the LDS temple in regards
to how women (via rituals) draw near to God? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jonah said:

What are the major similarities between the Old Testament temple and the LDS temple in regards
to how women (via rituals) draw near to God? 

You've gotten responses to your questions in this thread, but I'm not sure if these responses actually answer your questions since there's always another waiting in the wings. Perhaps we should take a step back and ensure we're really communicating with each other. Would you mind taking a moment and sharing your understanding of ancient temple worship?

1. What were the major physical and liturgical elements of the temple?

2. How did a person participate in temple worship?

3. What salvific effect, if any, did temple worship have? Could the average Israelite be saved without participating in temple worship?

4.How did temple worship change for the New Testament church? Did any elements continue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jonah said:

What are the major similarities between the Old Testament temple and the LDS temple in regards
to how women (via rituals) draw near to God? 

Regarding the role of women there would be relatively little similarity, since in ancient Israel the high priest symbolically returned to God’s presence in his role as a proxy for all Israelites (male and female) whereas in the modern temple each person undergoes a ritual return to God’s presence for him or herself.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Regarding the role of women there would be relatively little similarity, since in ancient Israel the high priest symbolically returned to God’s presence in his role as a proxy for all Israelites (male and female) whereas in the modern temple each person undergoes a ritual return to God’s presence for him or herself.

Some time ago I saw a video giving a guided virtual tour through the ancient tabernacle. Although the ritual described was different from the rituals we have today, it showed that the underlying meaning remains largely the same though the symbols themselves have been changed.

If I were a helpful person I would link to the video so @Jonah and others could watch it for themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jonah said:

Through Jesus our High Priest or do we require an earthly high priest?

The first. Jesus is sometimes referred to as prophet, priest and king. The fulfillment, though, came on the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the church. God's Spirit now abiding in me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now