Sabbath Worship from Home

[Traveler]

Not being at our dedicated places of congregational worship on the Sabbath - for those that may not already be aware may I suggest a Google search of "taylor and tyler come follow me" as a supplement to your Sabbath worship at home.

As a side note - I have appreciated the sermons that @prisonchaplain has shared - If he has the time to listen to an episode of "taylor and tyler come follow me" - I would be most interested in his response.

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I'll give it a try--hopefully some time this week. It appears to be on YouTube.

[anatess2]

We had a great backyard Sacrament Meeting last Sunday.  We had a Joseph Smith Restoration theme to reflect on Joseph Smith for his death anniversary.  We had a recording of my Missionary son playing the Joseph Smith Medley (First Prayer, Poor Wayfaring, Praise to the Man) and a talk reflecting on the life of Joseph Smith and the Restoration Proclamation.  We had 3 other ward families join us plus my in-laws and 5 ward missionaries so we were a bigger than usual group.  The cool thing is the missionaries can now enter our home!  So, even as we continued to hold sacrament in the hot and humid backyard with birds flying and dogs running all over the place because it's harder to set up in one place indoors, we were able to hold dinner inside the house so we can fellowship in relative comfort.

I enjoy Taylor and Tyler and I've watched some of their videos.  I also enjoy @prisonchaplain's sermons although I haven't yet got to the last one he sent.  I'll for sure go through it this week.  Thanks, PC!

[romans8]

On 7/1/2020 at 10:41 AM, anatess2 said:

We had a recording of my Missionary son playing the Joseph Smith Medley (First Prayer, Poor Wayfaring, Praise to the Man) and a talk reflecting on the life of Joseph Smith and the Restoration Proclamation

The chorus for this song has

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Did some revelation lead the church to believe he ascended to heaven or is this a theoretical 
song?  Did the NT church also sing a similar hymn of Peter or Paul?

Matteo

[JohnsonJones]

28 minutes ago, romans8 said:

The chorus for this song has

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Did some revelation lead the church to believe he ascended to heaven or is this a theoretical 
song?  Did the NT church also sing a similar hymn of Peter or Paul?

Matteo

Now that I am thinking about it (and I haven't really thought on that verse deeply before), in reference to our modern beliefs that we preach today...

At the time, he probably would have gone to what we call Spirit Paradise.

Many religions believe that upon death the spirit of an individual goes to one of two places, heaven or hell.  Instead of a physical resurrection, that is the eternal state of the soul.

We believe in something similar, but do not believe that is the final state.  After this life, depending on what one was like in this life, one goes to live in a paradise place of spirits, or a prison like place for spirits.  The paradise is heavenly, the prison is not.  However, we also believe that there will be a physical resurrection where the body and the spirit are reunited in a perfect and eternal form.  After this is a final judgment where you go to the kingdom of the Lord or are cast out forever.  Those who are in Spirit paradise most likely will be among those who live in one of the Kingdom's of the Lord after the resurrection, while those who are in Spirit Prison may or may not, depending on the what happens at the final judgment.

As Saints we believe Joseph Smith was a righteous individual and so we believe he went to Spirit Paradise  (heaven).  I could suppose that most would see this as theoretical, though for most of the Saints I think they would think it obvious he would go there.

In this, we could say, as many, that he had ascended to heaven (or, in this instance, Spirit Paradise).  Obviously, in this place, traitors and tyrants could have no influence upon him as it is a place where the Lord controls and has dominion.  He cannot die again either. 

That's my take on it at least now that I'm thinking on it.

Edited July 19, 2020 by JohnsonJones

[Plein Air]

.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Plein Air

[Carborendum]

16 hours ago, romans8 said:

Did some revelation lead the church to believe he ascended to heaven or is this a theoretical 
song? 

Did the NT church also sing a similar hymn of Peter or Paul?

"heaven" here refers to "Paradise" rather than the Celestial Kingdom.  And we believe all the righteous Saints will ascend to Paradise after death and "partial judgment."  It is somewhat figurative.

As for the NT church.  I would have no idea about that.  Neither would you.

And thanks for yet another sock puppet, Jonah.  It seemed likely from the first post.  But after a few posts, it is certain.  You're going to have to stop being so schizophrenic.  First, you're Catholic.  Now Baptist?

@NeedleinA, @Vort

Mods?

Edited July 20, 2020 by Carborendum

[anatess2]

16 hours ago, romans8 said:

The chorus for this song has

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Did some revelation lead the church to believe he ascended to heaven or is this a theoretical 
song?  Did the NT church also sing a similar hymn of Peter or Paul?

Matteo

Yes.

[Just_A_Guy]

On 7/19/2020 at 2:54 PM, romans8 said:

The chorus for this song has

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Did some revelation lead the church to believe he ascended to heaven or is this a theoretical 
song?  Did the NT church also sing a similar hymn of Peter or Paul?

Matteo

As @Carborendum says, in the context of LDS theology “heaven” in this hymn is kind of a nuanced term.  Certainly William Phelps, who wrote the hymn in mid-1844, had no reason to believe Smith had done anything to merit lasting divine punishment; and the Bible itself gave good reason to believe something very pleasant was waiting for Smith beyond death’s door—see, e.g., Rev 14:13, John 15:18, 2 Tim 3:12, John 16:1-3.

Wilford Woodruff did have numerous visions/revelations of Joseph Smith after Smith’s death, as he recounted summarily in a discourse excerpted here.

As far as whether any hymns were sung about martyrs in the primitive Church:  no idea.  But Jesus, and the authors of the New Testament, had no problem saying “this martyr really was pretty darned awesome” (Matt 11:11; Rev 20:4), so I doubt they’d have gotten too worked up if some composer had set their words—or others of a similar tenor—to music.  

Edited July 20, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[NeuroTypical]

Folks, quick reminder of the site rules to which you agreed:

Quote

1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere.

2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Third Hour is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Third Hour are welcome to participate and be a member of Third Hour. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.)

3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated.

People may not post what you like, or the way you like, but if they're not violating forum rules, leave them be.

Consider the gazillions of faceless anonymous folks who do topical internet searches on common questions (even critical, leading questions).  Consider what they find, when they discover such a question has been posed here.   Is it a well-answered question, or is it a personal attack?

Quote

Though argument does not create conviction, the lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish."
Austin Farrer, "The Christian Apologist," in Light on C. S. Lewis , ed. Jocelyn Gibb (New York: Harcourt and Brace, 1965), 26.

 

[pam]

To add to what NT posted above, let's please keep from publicly calling people sock puppets and trolls etc.  I worry that sometime we will get someone new who sincerely has a question and might get accused of being a sock puppet and never comes back.  Let us try to be a little more Christ like.

[Traveler]

On 7/19/2020 at 2:54 PM, romans8 said:

The chorus for this song has

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Did some revelation lead the church to believe he ascended to heaven or is this a theoretical 
song?  Did the NT church also sing a similar hymn of Peter or Paul?

Matteo

I will assume that your reference to "the NT church" is that period of time during the life of Jesus and his ordained Apostles prior to any effort of others (primarily Hellenist)  to selectively catalog (canonize) New Testament doctrine and scripture.   However, in general appreciation of Saint Peter - Considered the lead Apostle (same divine authorization of the ancient Church established by Christ as established in the modern restored Church by Christ upon Joseph Smith) upon whom was covered the Keys of "The Kingdom".  I would point out that songs or hymns of that period were based in a very different literary and harmonic structure than recognized in our modern era.  But back to Saint Peter and his keys as the lead Apostle.  The art forms of the fist century of the Christian era depict Saint Peter holding "Keys".  Saint Peter was also depicted in  the myths of the time as the replacement to Mot and Yemen with their "Scales" that determined who could past through the gates to heaven.

Since the authority of Saint Peter was restored to Joseph Smith (as prophesied and necessary for a restoration of all things in the Last-days leading up the the triumphant return of Christ) - it would be fitting that various art forms from each era reflect similar understandings.

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

A little off topic...or maybe more off topic...

So today was Fast and Testimony meeting at our home.  Because it is just a little group currently (me and my wife, and one of our kids and their family) it is a rather small gathering.  To fill up the time, if we are to fill up the time, requires just about everyone to bear their testimony.  Today, some of the grandkids did not want to bear their testimony, so there was a time filled with completely silence.  They were not forced to bear their testimony (and in fact, they did not bear their testimony today), but I did have a set time so that if not everyone did bear their testimony, they at least would have the opportunity to.

This meant we sat in silence for awhile and while doing so I contemplated on the quiet of the meeting.  In some ways, it was useful because, even if there was not an active testimony being stated at the time, I had time to reflect on my own testimony and the purposes of testimony meeting.  In many ways, even without testimonies being spoken, I could feel the spirit and felt the love of the Savior on us, and my love for him and my family.

Just something that I have been thinking on today since the meeting earlier.