Ignorance is sad, but stupid is unfixable


Vort
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18 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Wow.  Some folks will never learn until they get hurt, some folks won't even learn after they get hurt.

I try to teach my kids - just assume that everything you say online is seen by security, the news media, your malevolent stalker, and your worst enemy.

Careless talk costs lives...

(The BBC version was better but YouTube doesn't seem to have it)

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18 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I try to teach my kids - just assume that everything you say online is seen by security, the news media, your malevolent stalker, and your worst enemy.

Why write when you can speak? Why speak when you can nod? Why nod when you can wink? Why wink when you can do nothing?

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On 7/3/2020 at 8:49 AM, MormonGator said:
On 7/2/2020 at 2:34 PM, NeuroTypical said:

I try to teach my kids - just assume that everything you say online is seen by security, the news media, your malevolent stalker, and your worst enemy.

Why write when you can speak? Why speak when you can nod? Why nod when you can wink? Why wink when you can do nothing?

Not at all.  When it comes to sayin' stuff, say what you mean, mean what you say, because that way, you can stand firm against any backlash.  We'll be known by what we say and do, so say and do worthy, noble things.

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57 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Not at all.  When it comes to sayin' stuff, say what you mean, mean what you say, because that way, you can stand firm against any backlash.  We'll be known by what we say and do, so say and do worthy, noble things.

That’s very sweet, and I do the same thing...usually. 
 

But in 2020, no one gets fired for things they didn't Tweet. So be wise. 
 

The one thing I’d tell a young person looking to advance in the world is that they don’t need to fight every battle. Personally and professionally. 

Edited by MormonGator
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This is a big reason I don't spout my comments with my real name all over the Internet.  I also do not threaten attacking violence on people I do not know because of the mere words someone else says that may offend me. 

The arrogance of this woman is very apparent.  We could all use some more humility and she certainly could use some.

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On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 9:21 AM, mordorbund said:

Between Dick Wolf and this lady’s former boss, is it time to make off-hours political expression protected speech?

I'm remembering the guy who participated in an organized LGBT messes with Chick Fil-A day. All LGBT and allies were encouraged to go through the drive-through at a Chick Fil-A and order water. This fellow decided to confront the 17-year-old minor, working the drive-through, berating her for working for such an evil, homophobic company. The worker remained professional throughout, repeatedly saying that she recognized that people had varying political views, but that she was happy to serve him water on this day, and hoped the rest of it would be pleasant. Apparently believing he had successfully educated the young lady, this guy posts a video of the encounter on YouTube--never realizing just how much of a jerk he came across as being. Turns out he was a VP in a pretty prestigious company. Was. Within a day he was fired. He didn't represent their values, you see. In the mean time, the minor got to appear on some pretty cool talk shows, and kept her professionalism--taught by Chick Fil-A--throughout them all.

The private company's firing of the jerk was its exercise of free speech. We're never protected from embarrassing our employers.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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49 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'm remembering the guy who participated in an organized LGBT messes with Chick Fil-A day. All LGBT and allies were encouraged to go through the drive-through at a Chick Fil-A and order water. This fellow decided to confront the 17-year-old minor, working the drive-through, berating her for working for such an evil, homophobic company. The worker remained professional throughout, repeatedly saying that she recognized that people had varying political views, but that she was happy to serve him water on this day, and hoped the rest of it would be pleasant. Apparently believing he had successfully educated the young lady, this guy posts a video of the encounter on YouTube--never realizing just how much of a jerk he came across as being. Turns out he was a VP in a pretty prestigious company. Was. Within a day he was fired. He didn't represent their values, you see. In the mean time, the minor got to appear on some pretty cool talk shows, and kept her professionalism--taught by Chick Fil-A--throughout them all.

The private company's firing of the jerk was its exercise of free speech. We're never protected from embarrassing our employers.

Apparently the guy has had some trouble getting another job. I feel sorry for him-five minutes of being a major jerk (and he was) shouldn't mean your life is over. But, like a wise man said in another thread, in 2020, you need to be very careful of what you say. 

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46 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Apparently the guy has had some trouble getting another job. I feel sorry for him-five minutes of being a major jerk (and he was) shouldn't mean your life is over. But, like a wise man said in another thread, in 2020, you need to be very careful of what you say. 

I confess, I don't have the same sympathy for the guy. It's one thing to be a "major jerk" to an innocent girl while you preen your perverted self-esteem. It's wholly another thing to video the entire encounter and then put it up for public consumption as a way to signal your virtue to the world. This guy is not merely in the former camp, but in the latter. He chose his path, and I think it's completely just that he gets to live with the consequences. Think of what he was trying to do, not merely to Chik-Fil-A, but to the young woman he wrongly excoriated. I concede that I should feel pity toward the guy, but I don't. I don't claim any virtue for thinking as I do, because I'm not virtuous. I simply think that it could not have happened to a more deserving person.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

Think of what he was trying to do, not merely to Chik-Fil-A, but to the young woman he wrongly excoriated.

Yes, and that was horrible. I'm not saying it was good. Like I said, the guy was nasty, cruel, sanctimonious, rude, you name it. 

And, in fairness, all of us can also be nasty, cruel, sanctimonious and rude. And we don't deserve to our lives ruined for it either. Granted, most of us aren't stupid enough to film it and try to show off how wonderful &  moral we think we are while making others feel dirty and wrong (and yes, that was what he was doing), but that shouldn't warrant 35 years of misery. 

I think often times we can be far more severe and unforgiving than we should be. That is also part of the human condition, I guess. 

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I work in a profession dedicated to the notion that a one-time bad decision can have lifelong implications. A good portion of me hopes that the Chik-Fil-A dude gets his life back. I am curious, though, as to how long it took for him to truly understand (if he ever did) the error of his way.

Alas...my answer--by the man and author himself: https://www.amazon.com/Million-Dollar-Cup-Water-Authenticity-ebook/dp/B00UIFEHV0

So much for any sympathy or empathy . . . :::sigh:::

Edited by prisonchaplain
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1 minute ago, prisonchaplain said:

I work in a profession dedicated to the notion that a one-time bad decision can have lifelong implications

All true, and I have huge respect for you because of what you do. You know that. If you didn't, well, hopefully you do now. 

The issue, is of course, bigger than this one guy, but I'm always amazed how many sins someone can commit that are "unforgivable". Ask Tiger Woods. Ask Mel Gibson. Ask Lance Armstrong. I think we all know people who will "never forgive" these three guys. What this CEO did was far less damaging than what those three did-and yet, arguably, his life in in a much worse place than those three. 

Sad. 

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5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Apparently, Mr. Smith doubled-down on his behavior by painting himself a martyr.

That is sad. 

Remember Kim Davis? People on the left celebrated when they heard she was married three times and had other personal problems. They wished the worst on her. As Christians, we shouldn't lower ourselves to their level. Even jerks like this CEO (and yes, to be clear, the guy is a major jerk) should be able to feed themselves. And their families. 

Edited by MormonGator
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Forgiveness is freely available to all who will repent. Some people simply will not repent. They prefer to justify themselves and cling tightly to their pride. Damnation, it seems for some people, is well worth being able to say "I was right and you were wrong!" This seems a valuable lesson to learn, preferably by observation instead of by experience.

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If Mr. Smith chooses to promote LGBT rights, and seeks out a professional job he's qualified for, more power to him. This is America. If he promotes his horrible behavior towards the Chik-Fil-A workers as noble and just, and hopes to bankroll that boorishness with book deals and career enhancement, I frankly hope that doesn't go well. I hope I'm reasonable, hope-filled, and at least somewhat Christlike in this.

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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

Forgiveness is freely available to all who will repent. Some people simply will not repent. They prefer to justify themselves and cling tightly to their pride. Damnation, it seems for some people, is well worth being able to say "I was right and you were wrong!" This seems a valuable lesson to learn, preferably by observation instead of by experience.

As a side note, I am convinced that those who end up in the outer darkness (or hell) would prefer no other venue. They set their hearts against the Godhead, and aim for an eternal place that is apart.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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13 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

As a side note, I am convinced that those who end up in the outer darkness (or hell) would prefer no other venue. They set their hearts against the Godhead, and aim for an eternal place that is apart.

I suspect this is a minority viewpoint within LDS circles, but I completely agree with you, if for no other reason than that God is good and seeks to bless all. Those who remain filthy still and are cut off from God must surely be in that condition because that is what they choose.

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Y'all need to learn to navigate the interwebs...

This woman was not fired.  This woman applied for an internship at Deloitte.  The internship was supposed to start in the fall.  The internship offer was withdrawn.  That is not a firing.

Now, if this was a real firing, then it is a very acceptable one and even freedom of speech cannot help her here.  When you promise violence on people, a company is not obligated to keep you until after you have stabbed somebody at the office.  This is way different than just a difference in socio-political opinion.  There are other reasons when your off-hour speech is valid reason for firing.  If you work for Coca-Cola and in your off-hours you tell the world Coca-Cola is poisoning people with their Cherrry Coke, Coke can fire you.  In a private enterprise, your freedom of speech faces your employer's freedom of association.  Basically, you are free to say what you want and your employer is free to disassociate themselves from your speech.

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11 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Turns out he was a VP in a pretty prestigious company. Was. Within a day he was fired. He didn't represent their values, you see.

11 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

The private company's firing of the jerk was its exercise of free speech. We're never protected from embarrassing our employers.

8 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I work in a profession dedicated to the notion that a one-time bad decision can have lifelong implications.

Every company that I've ever worked for states its "governing values" which will include some type of "code of ethics."  Most of them nowadays have some sort of political correctness about them.  Some of them, I agree with; some, I don't.

While I agree that each company has the right to declare its governing values and the right to fire someone over them, I believe it is a greater commentary on society as a whole when people get fired for the wrong reasons.

Any company that feels it's ok to fire someone because they happened to be proud of their nuclear family deserves to be shamed.  But when society does not respond that way, the company has no motivation to change.

The fact that more and more companies are adopting a progressive mindset and values system is merely a symptom.  It is not the disease.

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