Plein Air

Push for Utah to mandate statewide mask wearing

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19 minutes ago, Scott said:

but there are a lot of complications that no one will want to get.  Death isn't the ony unpleasant outcome.

I’ve heard this a lot recently, but know one has cited any real sources. Do you have them?

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Guest MormonGator

I JUST read this post. Interesting. 

And I'm as pro-American as you can get, so this does make me think. 

109228864_10216772414875161_876346768251523797_n.jpg

Edited by MormonGator

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I don't understand not wearing a mask. Don't we owe it to the weak and vulnerable in our society to protect them? Isn't that "Loving one another as I loved you?" 

 

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Right, and by not wearing a mask, you could be placing the life of a total stranger into peril.

Speaking for myself:

I do want to help my fellow man.  And that includes using my agency and judgement on how to best do so.  I work from home to reduce contact.  I wash my hands many many times a day to reduce spread.    Me wearing a mask in the privacy of my backyard isn't protecting anyone.  Me going out to a park where I'm always 10 ft away from people is part of my love for fellow man, but me wearing a mask isn't going to make anyone safer there.   

I want to help myself and other be safe and use my God-gifted agency to do so.  

Edited by Jane_Doe

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6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

Speaking for myself:

I do want to help my fellow man.  And that includes using my agency and judgement on how to best do so.  I work from home to reduce contact.  I wash my hands many many times a day to reduce spread.    Me wearing a mask in the privacy of my backyard isn't protecting anyone.  Me going out to a park where I'm always 10 ft away from people is part of my love for fellow man, but me wearing a mask isn't going to make anyone safer there.   

I want to help myself and other be safe and use my God-gifted agency to do so.  

@Jane_Doe, I understand where you are coming from 100%! 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

@Jane_Doe, I understand where you are coming from 100%! 

I'm not a fan of blanket you-must-wear-a-mask-everywhere-ordinances, because that's NOT using my agency to protect people.  There are times that wearing a mask doesn't help anyone, and instead just makes things super hot and limits communication.  Trying to enforce something that doesn't make sense is picking the wrong battle.  

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2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm not a fan of blanket you-must-wear-a-mask-everywhere-ordinances, because that's NOT using my agency to protect people.  There are times that wearing a mask doesn't help anyone, and instead just makes things super hot and limits communication.  Trying to enforce something that doesn't make sense is picking the wrong battle.  

Totally understandable. 

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Quote

Handbook 20.6.25

Unapproved Activities...

  • Activities that involve wearing masks,

Also

Quote

Don’t Wear Masks

By Elder Quentin L. Cook

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

From a Church Educational System devotional for young adults ...

Elder Quentin L. Cook

One of your greatest protections against making bad choices is to not put on any mask...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just checking the trigger level of the thread thus far.

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2 hours ago, Scott said:

I have been shocked by lightning twice (1987 and 1991).

Yeah, and my 5 year old son has had three strokes.  I'm willing to take my chances with the virus.

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2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm not a fan of blanket you-must-wear-a-mask-everywhere-ordinances, because that's NOT using my agency to protect people.  There are times that wearing a mask doesn't help anyone, and instead just makes things super hot and limits communication.  Trying to enforce something that doesn't make sense is picking the wrong battle.  

Exactly!

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13 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm not a fan of blanket you-must-wear-a-mask-everywhere-ordinances, because that's NOT using my agency to protect people.  There are times that wearing a mask doesn't help anyone, and instead just makes things super hot and limits communication.  Trying to enforce something that doesn't make sense is picking the wrong battle.  

I'm not aware of anyone who has suggested a wear masks everywhere plan.  Is that a real thing?

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14 hours ago, carlimac said:

I didn't read this whole thread but  I'm sure it's been pointed out that wearing a mask is not as much a matter of taking care of your own health as it is watching out for others'.

Same difference.  Because, you're having a government forcing EVERYBODY - even those who don't carry the virus and can't possibly spread it - to wear one.  There are so many assumptions that the government is making here.  1.) Everybody is a carrier. 2.) Masks are required to stop viral spread regardless of other methods exercised. 3.) Any mask - including non N95 standard ones - can stop viral spread. 4.) Masks can improve societal health more than it hurts... and the main thing - 5.) Stopping viral spread among a healthy population is the best way to deal with a viral pandemic.

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15 minutes ago, dprh said:

I'm not aware of anyone who has suggested a wear masks everywhere plan.  Is that a real thing?

Yes.

In my parent's state you are required to wear masks every time you're not inside a private residence.  And there's a big push to make this a national requirement.  

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4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Yes.

In my parent's state you are required to wear masks every time you're not inside a private residence.  And there's a big push to make this a national requirement.  

It's just that you've mentioned backyards a couple times.  I don't think any state has said that.  Some say all public places, but backyards aren't public. 

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/where-are-face-masks-required/

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9 minutes ago, dprh said:

It's just that you've mentioned backyards a couple times.  I don't think any state has said that.  Some say all public places, but backyards aren't public. 

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/where-are-face-masks-required/

Are you really debating the detail of what constitutes public places?

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45 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Same difference.  Because, you're having a government forcing EVERYBODY - even those who don't carry the virus and can't possibly spread it - to wear one.  There are so many assumptions that the government is making here.  1.) Everybody is a carrier. 2.) Masks are required to stop viral spread regardless of other methods exercised. 3.) Any mask - including non N95 standard ones - can stop viral spread. 4.) Masks can improve societal health more than it hurts... and the main thing - 5.) Stopping viral spread among a healthy population is the best way to deal with a viral pandemic.

1) Everybody is a potential carrier.  We don't know who is or isn't.  I personally don't trust other people to self-regulate to stay home when sick.

2) Masks are a tool that helps reduce the spread of the virus.

3) Any mask can reduce (not stop) the spread of droplets, some better than others.

4) Being able to socialize with a mask is better than being quarantined without in-person interaction.

5) We can't stop the viral spread, but we can slow it down so hospitals and other care units don't get overwhelmed.

I understand the fight against government mandates requiring masks. But masks are effective.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/07/20/utah-records-new/

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19 minutes ago, dprh said:

I'm hoping to help her feel comfortable being in her backyard.

Well, that's the thing... places like California are making statewide ordinances that are designed for the urban centers mandated to non-urban dwellers.  So, urban backyards in California are mask-zones which now applies to non-urban dwellers.  This is another issue with government mandates.

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3 minutes ago, dprh said:

1) Everybody is a potential carrier.  We don't know who is or isn't.  I personally don't trust other people to self-regulate to stay home when sick. 

This is not a valid reason to expand government authority.

 

3 minutes ago, dprh said:

2) Masks are a tool that helps reduce the spread of the virus.  

And masks are a tool to commit anonymous armed robbery, symbols of white supremacy, antifa-terrorists, female oppression, etc. etc.  In any case, masks are covered under freedom of expression - something that the government is supposed to not infringe.

 

3 minutes ago, dprh said:

3) Any mask can reduce (not stop) the spread of droplets, some better than others.  

Still not a valid reason for government infringement of liberty.

 

3 minutes ago, dprh said:

4) Being able to socialize with a mask is better than being quarantined without in-person interaction.  

Not a valid reason for government infringement of liberty.

 

3 minutes ago, dprh said:

5) We can't stop the viral spread, but we can slow it down so hospitals and other care units don't get overwhelmed.  

That's what they've been saying for the past 4 months.  Yet, it seems like there is more effort to pressure people to hand draconian power to government rather than pressure government to approve medical protocols to help reduce ER and ventilator needs.

 

3 minutes ago, dprh said:

I understand the fight against government mandates requiring masks. But masks are effective.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/07/20/utah-records-new/

Depends on what problem you are trying to solve and what problems you are willing to ignore... and this is just masks... can you imagine when the CDC approves a vaccine?  

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Most people would not have a problem if they had just asked. Instead, the governments are dictating that we WILL wear them, or else. That is what I have a problem with. Also, most doctors admit that the masks do nothing to stop the spread. If you think you may be sick, staying home is the best solution.

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9 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Most people would not have a problem if they had just asked

Actually, people had a major problem with that. 

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36 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Most people would not have a problem if they had just asked. Instead, the governments are dictating that we WILL wear them, or else. That is what I have a problem with. Also, most doctors admit that the masks do nothing to stop the spread. If you think you may be sick, staying home is the best solution.

In Nevada, the governor started with asking.  He felt there were too many people who still weren't following the suggestions.  That's when he went with the mandate.

As for the bold, most articles I've read completely disagree.

Edited by dprh

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1 hour ago, dprh said:

In Nevada, the governor started with asking.  He felt there were too many people who still weren't following the suggestions.  That's when he went with the mandate.

And this is EXACTLY WHY people should not cede power to government.

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8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Still not a valid reason for government infringement of liberty.

I'm just asking since I am curious about your opinion.

Would it ever be a valid reason if the death rate was higher?   

MERS for example, has a death rate of over 1/3 of the people infected.  It just wasn't ad widespread as COVID-19.

If COVID-19 had a similar death rate to MERS, would it be a valid reason to require mask?

One reason I am asking is because I see no reason why there couldn't be a future virus outbreak that has a much higher death rate than COVID-19.

 

Edited by Scott

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10 hours ago, dprh said:

5) We can't stop the viral spread, but we can slow it down so hospitals and other care units don't get overwhelmed.

This point is no-longer valid.  Hospitals here in KY have been laying people off since march because no one is using hospital services since they are being reserved for an imaginary influx of severe COVID-19 cases.

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