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I've made it a point to live outside the city for the past 20 years.  I've only been able to do that for about 3 years in Colorado and the past five years in Texas.

In both cases, it is pretty sane.  I just have to be careful when I go into town.

I left Colorado because of the loss of work available in the state.  I got a job in Texas and found the job market was fantastic.  I moved the family down for many reasons.  One of them was that I felt Colorado was getting too liberal.  I moved in when it was just red/purple.  I left when it was purple/blue.  Nowadays, it is full on blue.  I'm glad I left.

But you're in Utah.  It is as red as it gets.  Utah and Wyoming are both at top red levels.  So, I'm not sure what more you want as far as politics.

Edited by Carborendum

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1 hour ago, Plein Air said:

I am open to suggestions

Okay, you asked for it. 

You will never find happiness, just judging from your post. No matter where you go, there will be something you disagree with politically that'll make you unhappy. Besides, things change. Utah might swing blue-sure, it doesn't look like it now, but they might. Someday in the future. California might turn red. Sure, it doesn't look like it now. But it might. Don't base your happiness on things you have no control over. 

We all know people who stomp their feet and threaten to leave an online forum because not every single poster agrees with them 100%. Some really do leave this or that forum, only to find out that every forum they go to, there's a problem that makes them want to leave. These people are almost never brave/strong enough to look inside and realize that maybe, just maybe, they are the problem. It's the same sort of thing. 

1 hour ago, Plein Air said:

am open to suggestions

Quoting it again because, well, you said you were open to suggestions. So that means hearing some that you might not like. 

Edited by MormonGator

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4 hours ago, Plein Air said:

I don't think I want to live in the USA anymore unless I am literally out in the middle of nowhere in a place that would be very difficult (think electrified fences, armed guards, dogs, trained killer bees etc.) Somewhere that people on an ATV, walking or by horseback would have a very difficult time getting to. Well, I can't afford that, so now what?   

Something citified folks often don't know - the further away you get from services/amenities/roads, the cheaper the land/house.   We live on 5 acres, 10 miles away from the nearest town, and 30 miles away from my work (50+ miles when I worked in Denver).  I've commuted to work for 20 years now, quite a happy camper.  We're hardly rich.  It can be done.  I hear you clarifying "I can't afford that", with language of "would like" and "prefer" and "don't want" and "doesn't appeal".  

I've found that joking about owning a minefield, is as satisfying as actually having all that stuff.  Our protection dog died of old age years ago, the attack turkeys do the job these days.

You don't need to rule out living in a remote location.  Here's a pic I took looking out my back door one morning:

Homestead2013S6301171.thumb.JPG.e269952541c0d5996280abfe1129ef49.JPG

 

This is not an expensive place to live.  Halfway between Colorado Springs and Denver, out of the trees, away from the mountain.  

 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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3 hours ago, Plein Air said:

So have I. Small towns, remote home locations for the last 30 years. Spent several years in Texas, but the high desert is in my blood. There are LOTS of places in Utah, Wyoming, Arizona and Idaho I would love to move to but I can't afford to buy the land I would want in the places I like. Ideally, would like to be about an hour away from any towns bigger than 50,000, at least 3 hours from any population center over 200,000 and want at a minimum 100 acres.  I would prefer a half or full section of land (640 acres). I can afford a section of land in some places, but those areas I have looked at for the last 2 years don't appeal to me very much or I would be living there now. A 100 acre plot in areas that I like the most runs 1 million to several million, 10x more than I can pay for just the land. I can get 400+ acres in an OK area in southern Utah for $100k. It is basically all about money or the lack there of. My limit for land, house, well and solar is $600,000. I would prefer to be under $450K. 

I prefer red states by a huge margin but it seems like every red state has a blue infected city or two

Well, if you keep adding qualifications and conditions, you're not going to be successful in your search.  You know what?  You're right.

I want a private island that is large enough to farm all the food for a small community. 

And it needs to have a HUGE mansion sitting on it -- at least 12,000 square feet, all done in French chateau style with marble floors and pillars throughout the inside.

The island has to come with a port for my $100MM cruise ship/oversized yacht.

It needs to be far enough away that I won't be bothered by anyone.  But it needs to be within walking distance of a Sam's club and a Costco.  And Amazon needs to be able to deliver there overnight.

A diamond mine on the island wouldn't hurt either.  I just need a volcano with an on/off switch.

Loo, I'm not trying to mock you.  I'm just trying to point out that if you put enough conditions on your "dream home" then it will become nigh impossible to achieve.  And all the conditions you put on this essentially says that you want a $10MM home and land with a $100k price tag with a high flowing well in a desert area with a forest right beside it.

Does anything about that seem off to you?

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100 acres should not be that expensive in Utah (of course, depending on where you are looking).  I can pick up 100 acres for 100K in some areas of Utah when I looked just now.  The problem it seem is that there is no water on the property, and no water rights (or mineral rights) that go with the property.  They all seem to be in the middle of nowhere with no stores or shops near by, and they are not exactly at 100 acres (some are 40 acres, some or 200+ acres, but they seem to go for around $1000 an acre).   Also, no idea if you would actually be allowed to build a house on them as zoning laws probably highly affect those properties.

If you want a decent area of land, get land in the area of the Midwest from Iowa down to Kansas.  Lots of land at rather cheap prices (ranging anywhere from $3000 to $10,000 an acre, so possible to get 100 acres for less than a million, though I'd imagine it will probably run somewhere between $500,000 and $800,00...without a house on it).

Why do you want so much land though?

22 minutes ago, Plein Air said:

Actually no, nothing seems off to me. I can already achieve everything on my wish list in Utah which would be 100+ acres adjacent to BLM land. Just not sure I want to be in Utah or even the USA anymore.  

 

It then falls on what freedoms you enjoy or do not enjoy.  Canada probably has a LOT of cheaper land up north.  It probably is far cheaper than anything you'd find in the US.  It could be 6 to 12 hours from any civilization (that also includes gas stations, so you may have to bring your own gas when you travel).  Canada has certain laws which are more restrictive on free speech, and other restrictions on things you may feel are freedoms you have in the US (more restrictive on fire arms, and other things as well). 

Otherwise, South America has a lot of cheaper property (and you have expat communities there) as well as South East Asia in some areas.  Most of these areas have a cheaper price of living.  Obviously there are trade offs, and many of the expats that go there to retire do so because it allows them to get more for their money in retirement.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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On 7/11/2020 at 10:12 PM, Plein Air said:

I should have phrased that --- I am open to suggestions of specific places I could move to...... original post edited. Thanks for catching that incorrectly phrased wording.

I am retired, have maybe 10 years left before I die from a fatal, incurable illness. I have lived all over the US and in Canada. I am definitely moving somewhere fairly far from where I live now, once our home sells, just looking at options that get me out of the USA for a while so I can watch the crap storm from afar. 

DUDE... GET A TINY HOUSE ON WHEELS!

Find a State without an income tax and a low vehicle registration fee... like Florida... and establish a residence there.  You can do this by simply renting a brick-and-mortar mailbox (not a P.O. box), or just purchasing an el cheapo place to call yours (Florida has low property tax as well).  Then build an off-grid Tiny House on a towable trailer and get a heavy duty truck and go wherever your heart desires.

Now, here's a way you can fund your house... you already got a truck to pull your house... you can park your house at a place (like on BLM land, or an RV campground or State Parks, or on people's backyards, you can take your house anywhere a highway takes you... from Canada all the way down to South America) for most of the year... then, when you're ready (or need) to make money, just go to your business base and hook up a loading trailer to your truck and dispatch it for Hotshot towing!  You can make $12K in 2 months - $12K for an off-grid minimalist lifestyle should be plenty if you stick to almost-free parking.  I'm not sure how fed taxes work out for Hotshot owner-operators so you're gonna have to figure out how to minimize that.

Cool, huh?

 

Edited by anatess2

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On 7/12/2020 at 9:27 AM, Plein Air said:

Actually no, nothing seems off to me. I can already achieve everything on my wish list in Utah which would be 100+ acres adjacent to BLM land. Just not sure I want to be in Utah or even the USA anymore.  

The man who lives by himself and for himself is soon corrupted by the company he keeps.

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 7:12 PM, Plein Air said:

I should have phrased that --- I am open to suggestions of specific places I could move to...... original post edited. Thanks for catching that incorrectly phrased wording.

I am retired, have maybe 10 years left before I die from a fatal, incurable illness. I have lived all over the US and in Canada. I am definitely moving somewhere fairly far from where I live now, once our home sells, just looking at options that get me out of the USA for a while so I can watch the crap storm from afar. 

There is Sweden.  They had not lock down for covid, and it is a first World modern country.  Not a lot of crazies.  Be prepared to pay high taxes, however.

 

I have been there.  It seems a good country.

Edited by mrmarklin

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On 7/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, Plein Air said:

Many of my liberal friends and relatives have threatened to leave the USA several times since Trump was elected. Some actually did. I wish a LOT more of them had followed their examples, and not just my relatives and friends. One moved to Canada and obtained citizenship, left their country and their church behind and seem to be very happy. Another went on a peace corps escape tour, left the church, abandoned their moral principles and left the country, vowing to never return to the USA until Trump is out of office and replaced by a liberal. 

Well for me, Trump isn't the problem. Yea, he is annoying and rude, but he hasn't actually done anything I find reprehensible. The liberals on the other hand seem like they are past the point of returning to sanity. Anyone who disagrees with them will be chewed up and spit out. Add to that the C-19, the riots and looting, being thrown out of businesses, verbally and physically abused, private property destroyed and more if one shows support Trump, or speaking out against anything that goes against the warped liberal code. The wildest one I saw yesterday, someone was SHOT by an over zealous security guard for refusing to wear a mask.  If the confused and seemingly useless, liberal congressional reps, mayors and governors in this country don't change their tactics pronto, I don't think I want to live in the USA anymore unless I am literally out in the middle of nowhere in a place that would be very difficult (think electrified fences, armed guards, dogs, trained killer bees etc.) Somewhere that people on an ATV, walking or by horseback would have a very difficult time getting to. Well, I can't afford that, so now what?   

I have been looking at places within the USA and countries that might work for me for about a year now. No big surprise, there is nothing that fits my want list that I can afford. Am I alone in this or is anyone else out there even considering leaving the US or heading to the boonies? I realize that evil will be everywhere, getting worse each day, so it is probably pointless to think about, but I might get a few years of peace and quiet if I could find a "secret" spot to hide!

The best plan I could come up with that my wife would agree to is to sell our home and possessions and go on a back to back series of church missions for the next 4 years or so to see what happens just so I don't have to think about anything but missionary service. With the COVID I guess not many missionaries are being called right now. That might change..... 

I am interested in suggestions of places that have lived in or worked in for extended periods that  you liked, be they within the USA or in another country. 

This reminds me of an article I read a number of years ago.  The article was about a very successful architect in NYC.  He could see the world moving towards war (WWII) and decided he did not want anything to do with all the war politics.  He sold his business and all his holdings which he used to purchase a small island where he planned to sit out the war and let the world do what it was going to do.  True to his beliefs - within months of moving his family to the island WWII broke out.  His mistake was purchasing an island that was part of the Midway Islands.  When the USA entered the war the Japaneses took him and his family prisoners - he spent the war in a Japaneses prisoner of war concentration camp.  His wife and one of his children died in custody.

My point in bringing up this story - sometimes it is not a good idea to try to run away from things - especially politically changed things.  Also I am not sure it is a good idea to use a mission to avoid something - a mission is about service and sacrifice.  It is my opinion that generally it is not a good idea to use any calling for personal benefit or purposes.

 

The Traveler 

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10 hours ago, Traveler said:

This reminds me of an article I read a number of years ago.  The article was about a very successful architect in NYC.  He could see the world moving towards war (WWII) and decided he did not want anything to do with all the war politics.  He sold his business and all his holdings which he used to purchase a small island where he planned to sit out the war and let the world do what it was going to do.  True to his beliefs - within months of moving his family to the island WWII broke out.  His mistake was purchasing an island that was part of the Midway Islands.  When the USA entered the war the Japaneses took him and his family prisoners - he spent the war in a Japaneses prisoner of war concentration camp.  His wife and one of his children died in custody.

It must have been some fiction story.  Because... if you wanted to stay out of the war, you wouldn't be moving to an atoll owned and administered by the US Navy.

 

10 hours ago, Traveler said:

My point in bringing up this story - sometimes it is not a good idea to try to run away from things - especially politically changed things. 

And sometimes you can better influence the world for the better by applying the Benedictine Option.

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Decided to post what I posted here in another thread.  Instead will comment on the Benedictine option.

I believe that normally is to create a community (within the community) which requires more than just one or two people, but at least a few like minded individuals to accomplish this.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Decided to post what I posted here in another thread.  Instead will comment on the Benedictine option.

I believe that normally is to create a community (within the community) which requires more than just one or two people, but at least a few like minded individuals to accomplish this.

Benedict started on his own and established personal rules to live by and lived them.  Then he took in people who choose to follow the same rules until he "infected" entire communities to live the same rules.

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Speaking of 'running away from all this crap', my wife lost a little hen a while ago.  She figured a dog or coyote got her.  Then, the other day, well, we found where she had run off to:

1030581315_IMG_37421.thumb.JPG.3f92e0c93161316ffb549de2fd649725.JPG

 

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3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Speaking of 'running away from all this crap', my wife lost a little hen a while ago.  She figured a dog or coyote got her.  Then, the other day, well, we found where she had run off to:

1030581315_IMG_37421.thumb.JPG.3f92e0c93161316ffb549de2fd649725.JPG

 

Cuteness overload!

Speaking of running off... my chickens didn't run off, they got run off... had to move them to a member-owned farm 25 miles away after my HOA threatened to put a lien on the house.  Come to find out, the HOA by-laws are held higher than the county permit... anyway, one day in the new farm and a rogue bantam rooster plucked all the hair out of my silkie rooster's head to hopefully steal his hens away from him.  Proud to say the silkie rooster lost his hair in a bloody battle but succeeded in protecting his hens.  That poor silkie looks so funny bald tho.

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8 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I've never seen a chicken with three heads before! If I had three heads I also might be inclined to run off and hide.  

But your other two heads might outvote you.

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Some parts of Idaho are very conservative, cheap and pretty. Central Utah has cheap land, Northern Utah up around Bear Lake has nice properties but the winters are brutal. How about Woodruff Utah? 

Plenty of places to go but only need to stop watching the news to find the peace you need. 

 

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