Stopping COVID

[NeuroTypical]

18 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I will make a prediction - If Trump is reelected the COVID vaccine will be covered by the media as ineffective.  If Trump is not reelected COVID will disappear and that those that could be infected being treated or dying will not be covered and if referenced they will be suffering other problems.  We will return to normal.

Agreed if Trump is re-elected.  If Harris wins, COVID will not disappear, but it will disappear out of our media, out of our public discussions, and just generally fall off our radar.   The US death toll will hit 300,000 in 2021, and I'll be the only one who notices because I'll be the last person on the planet watching.

[Guest Scott]

20 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

When you say,"They don't drop off completely."  I'm wondering if this means that you have enough to keep fighting the disease, but not enough to help others through your plasma donation?

Any details?

No details.  It was just a person I was talking to about donating plasma so we could help others.  They ask you questions and tell you what they are looking for in donors.  That's where the 2 1/2 months come from.  They say that's what they need because the antibodies drop off significantly after that.

That the antibodies don't drop off completely is just my assumption. I have no idea how much is enough to keep fighting the disease.  I just hope that I don't get it again anytime soon.

[Carborendum]

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

 because I'll be the last person on the planet watching.

It's endearing that you think I'm not that obsessed with it as well 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Carborendum

[JohnsonJones]

16 hours ago, Traveler said:

This discussion is referencing a post I made almost 2 months ago.  More recently I posted on COVID updates in the current events forum.  There I referenced that there are individuals that have been admitted to hospitals multiple times for COVID.  This can be documented by Googling "COVID reinfections".  What this means is that the most vulnerable will not be protected with a vaccine.  We already know that this malady is not worth worrying about for the less vulnerable.   They do not need a vaccine.  The cost is not worth the threat if this only protects the less vulnerable.

I will make a prediction - If Trump is reelected the COVID vaccine will be covered by the media as ineffective.  If Trump is not reelected COVID will disappear and that those that could be infected being treated or dying will not be covered and if referenced they will be suffering other problems.  We will return to normal.

 

The Traveler

Covid is a Worldwide event.  I'm not sure Trump's and the US politics is enough to make the entire world enter into a conspiracy theory that either lives or dies resting upon the outcome of the US election.

[Traveler]

On 9/25/2020 at 4:04 AM, JohnsonJones said:

Covid is a Worldwide event.  I'm not sure Trump's and the US politics is enough to make the entire world enter into a conspiracy theory that either lives or dies resting upon the outcome of the US election.

No where in the world has COVID had the impact that it has in the USA.  Not just in terms of infections but in changes to the economy and the structure of social norms.  But perhaps - worst of all is a conflict of information concerning what the pandemic science is.  Some may think that this age of the internet and greater communications is an age of information - but the reality is that it is more an age of misinformation. 

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:55 AM, Traveler said:

No where in the world has COVID had the impact that it has in the USA.  Not just in terms of infections but in changes to the economy and the structure of social norms.  But perhaps - worst of all is a conflict of information concerning what the pandemic science is.  Some may think that this age of the internet and greater communications is an age of information - but the reality is that it is more an age of misinformation. 

 

The Traveler

That is very US centered thinking...I think.

Unfortunately, most nations have now restricted Passport and VISA travel from the US (once the best passport to have...to one of the worst), and I haven't been able to have my usual travels abroad this year. 

Connections abroad have indicated that the US is looked at in shock by the rest of the world (one reason US passports are so useless these days), but it is hardly looked at as a leader or being influential on what they are doing or how they are following science.  There are a few other nations (Brazil is supposedly another one) that have absolutely discarded science in the name of...whatever they are thinking and following the US down the hole of untreated malady...but that isn't necessarily reflected in how the rest of the world is handling the pandemic.  Much rest of the world doesn't buy into the "conflicting" information (what many would outside the US would actually call misinformation from anti-scientific sources) that is rampant in the US, and thus have taken other measures.  Expecting that they will suddenly have all their scientific studies, research, and the way they've approached the virus will suddenly disappear due to the US election is rather...far fetched.  Their science, new cycles, and the measures they've taken to combat the pandemic (masks, social distancing, etc) don't rely on an election in the US.  If anything, there are indications that there will be a massive uptick in other nations during November of the virus.

Foreign news agencies tackle how their nations are dealing with the Virus on almost a daily basis, and normally with no reference to the US's actions in their regards to what they are doing.  The Right Wing US news really is only affecting the US and a few other locations, most of the rest of the world is doing their own thing and tackling the virus in their own way.  At first they looked to the US for leadership, but when it became apparent that was not forthcoming, the US swiftly lost a LOT of influence on MANY nations (to the point, as I said ,that the US passport has become worse than many third world passports at this point) in regards to their policies and their approaches to many things.

There HAVE been massive impacts in other nations, and the US economically actually is doing better than much of Europe at this moment.  Many are not too happy about the US's approach and are wary of ANYTHING coming from the US at this moment.  We ARE the NEW CHINA...in that many see that people from the US are the carriers now to other nations.

It probably will take a LOT of diplomacy to repair this, and finding solutions where the US won't be seen as spreading a virus that the rest of the world sees as potentially deadly (though I know many in the US do not) is probably key to that.  Without a vaccine, a miraculous way of treating it, or some other method (some which may be more tyrannical than others in some ways, so probably wouldn't go over well in the US), I don't see that changing anytime soon.  A simple US election is probably not going to change that, no matter who wins it.

Many have already gotten over the 1st wave and just now may be starting to see the arrival of a 2nd wave...while the US still is on it's first wave and may combine the first and second wave into one big wave entirely.  When the elections roll out in the US, they expect they may be in the middle of a massive 2nd wave, which I'm sure they'd love to have gone simply by an election going one way...but science is dictating that something else will be occurring at that time in the Northern Hemisphere...and possibly getting worse (Sunlight is less, Vitamin D which is thought to have an impact may be less gotten, and various other factors which could worsen the pandemic worldwide, at least in the Northern Hemisphere).

At least we haven't hit 500K deaths yet (though we have busted through the 100K deaths far before the end of the year, and in fact doubled it thus far).

Edited September 28, 2020 by JohnsonJones

[Traveler]

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

That is very US centered thinking...I think.

Unfortunately, most nations have now restricted Passport and VISA travel from the US (once the best passport to have...to one of the worst), and I haven't been able to have my usual travels abroad this year. 

Connections abroad have indicated that the US is looked at in shock by the rest of the world (one reason US passports are so useless these days), but it is hardly looked at as a leader or being influential on what they are doing or how they are following science.  There are a few other nations (Brazil is supposedly another one) that have absolutely discarded science in the name of...whatever they are thinking and following the US down the hole of untreated malady...but that isn't necessarily reflected in how the rest of the world is handling the pandemic.  Much rest of the world doesn't buy into the "conflicting" information (what many would outside the US would actually call misinformation from anti-scientific sources) that is rampant in the US, and thus have taken other measures.  Expecting that they will suddenly have all their scientific studies, research, and the way they've approached the virus will suddenly disappear due to the US election is rather...far fetched.  Their science, new cycles, and the measures they've taken to combat the pandemic (masks, social distancing, etc) don't rely on an election in the US.  If anything, there are indications that there will be a massive uptick in other nations during November of the virus.

Foreign news agencies tackle how their nations are dealing with the Virus on almost a daily basis, and normally with no reference to the US's actions in their regards to what they are doing.  The Right Wing US news really is only affecting the US and a few other locations, most of the rest of the world is doing their own thing and tackling the virus in their own way.  At first they looked to the US for leadership, but when it became apparent that was not forthcoming, the US swiftly lost a LOT of influence on MANY nations (to the point, as I said ,that the US passport has become worse than many third world passports at this point) in regards to their policies and their approaches to many things.

There HAVE been massive impacts in other nations, and the US economically actually is doing better than much of Europe at this moment.  Many are not too happy about the US's approach and are wary of ANYTHING coming from the US at this moment.  We ARE the NEW CHINA...in that many see that people from the US are the carriers now to other nations.

It probably will take a LOT of diplomacy to repair this, and finding solutions where the US won't be seen as spreading a virus that the rest of the world sees as potentially deadly (though I know many in the US do not) is probably key to that.  Without a vaccine, a miraculous way of treating it, or some other method (some which may be more tyrannical than others in some ways, so probably wouldn't go over well in the US), I don't see that changing anytime soon.  A simple US election is probably not going to change that, no matter who wins it.

Many have already gotten over the 1st wave and just now may be starting to see the arrival of a 2nd wave...while the US still is on it's first wave and may combine the first and second wave into one big wave entirely.  When the elections roll out in the US, they expect they may be in the middle of a massive 2nd wave, which I'm sure they'd love to have gone simply by an election going one way...but science is dictating that something else will be occurring at that time in the Northern Hemisphere...and possibly getting worse (Sunlight is less, Vitamin D which is thought to have an impact may be less gotten, and various other factors which could worsen the pandemic worldwide, at least in the Northern Hemisphere).

At least we haven't hit 500K deaths yet (though we have busted through the 100K deaths far before the end of the year, and in fact doubled it thus far).

As I have said - this is not the age of information as it is misinformation.  I will use an example - one of the countries involved in world trade is Taiwan.  This island is heavily populated - its large cities are more so than New York City.  Outside of mainland China, Taiwan was one of the first countries infected by COVID-19 -- yet, to date, since the whole outbreak Taiwan has had less than 510 cases of infections and 7 deaths (the last death in May).  One would think that anyone following the science for COVID would know and follow the Taiwan model.  Have you ever heard anyone in our media new outlets reference Taiwan?

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

19 hours ago, Traveler said:

As I have said - this is not the age of information as it is misinformation.  I will use an example - one of the countries involved in world trade is Taiwan.  This island is heavily populated - its large cities are more so than New York City.  Outside of mainland China, Taiwan was one of the first countries infected by COVID-19 -- yet, to date, since the whole outbreak Taiwan has had less than 510 cases of infections and 7 deaths (the last death in May).  One would think that anyone following the science for COVID would know and follow the Taiwan model.  Have you ever heard anyone in our media new outlets reference Taiwan?

 

The Traveler

In the US...not as much.  There have been a few references to Asian nations, but not a ton overall.  Elsewhere, there have been notes on how it is being tackled in other nations...which also includes Taiwan.

Taiwan was VERY aggressive in it's approach, taking the science seriously and enforcing quarantines and other measures.  I'm not certain the mandated quarantines would go over so well in the US, and mask wearing obviously has not gone over in the US as it did and still does in Taiwan (at least thus far).

Taiwan (unlike much of Europe) looks like it has a minimal impact on it's GDP (and even hopes for growth).

In the US, I think New Zealand and Australia along with Canada are mentioned more than many other nations, along with the UK (originally Sweden as well, until they deviated from the course they were on to a more cautionary route...now I think they are still mentioned but not as much).

[Fether]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

In the US, I think New Zealand and Australia along with Canada are mentioned more than many other nations

I’ve always been confused as to why these nations were mentioned so much in analyzing Covid response and recovery. Their population, population density, and tourism do not compare In the slightest to the US.

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

In the US...not as much.  There have been a few references to Asian nations, but not a ton overall.  Elsewhere, there have been notes on how it is being tackled in other nations...which also includes Taiwan.

Taiwan was VERY aggressive in it's approach, taking the science seriously and enforcing quarantines and other measures.  I'm not certain the mandated quarantines would go over so well in the US, and mask wearing obviously has not gone over in the US as it did and still does in Taiwan (at least thus far).

Taiwan (unlike much of Europe) looks like it has a minimal impact on it's GDP (and even hopes for growth).

In the US, I think New Zealand and Australia along with Canada are mentioned more than many other nations, along with the UK (originally Sweden as well, until they deviated from the course they were on to a more cautionary route...now I think they are still mentioned but not as much).

I was traveling between the USA and Taiwan for work during the SARS outbreak.  I never wore a mask and may have been the only one in the country without a mask (admitted sarcasm).  There was no mask mandate and I was never refused service and no one showed any concern that I did not wear a mask.  Obviously, I was recognized as American because I could not speak but a few words in Chinese. 

So what has Taiwan done to avoid COVID?  As near as I can determine, since I have not traveled to Taiwan during the pandemic, is that they started immediately checking temperatures of everyone in public.   Even most of those that are COVID asymptomatic will have a slightly higher than normal temperature.  (there is some dispute regarding if someone without a fever will infect others.  Using Taiwan as an example - it would appear not)   For flights coming into Taiwan all on the plane are isolated until everyone has had their temperature taken.  If anyone is above normal then everyone is tested for COVID or required to quarantine for 2 weeks.  (quarantine is required when testing is unavailable).   This method of taking temperature and isolating for testing or quarantining them and anyone they have been with has been the method.

If you do some fact checking you will discover that close to 90% of those with COVID will have a fever which is 100.4 or above.  But it is my understanding that anything over 99.5 is flagged.  There are several things that can cause a higher than normal temperature - such as being in the hot sun or heavy exercise.  If that is the case then a person can rest for 5 minutes in a cool place and drink water and their temperature will fall - unless they have a condition.

Here is a thought - we do not need to wear a mask and we do not need to quarantine if we regularly take our temperature (daily).  But in the USA most individuals are too (dare I say stupid) to take care of themselves and those that they associate with (thinking they are the great exception) and therefore, require a mandate.  So the next step would be to cheek everyone's temperature in public.  Anyone can keep their business open by checking everyone's temperature before being allowed to do business - even gas stations could check all occupants of all cars before they are allowed to the pumps.  The same with entering any buildings or public places - like parks.  It has worked in Taiwan.  Contrary to much public opinion - what works is science, even if it cannot be explained or is politically acceptable. 

 

The Traveler