The Plan of Salvation - the Fall


romans8
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Hello,

Can someone explain this to me.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/content/english/manual/missionary/pdf/36950_the-plan-of-salvation-eng.pdf

Page 6 – Satan tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and they chose to do so. This was 
part of God’s plan. Because of their decision, they were separated from God’s presence physically 
and spiritually. They became mortal, that is, subject to sin and death. They were unable to return 
to Him without His help. Their physical and spiritual separation from God is called the Fall. 

I also believe the Fall was caused by the decision [a singular event] to eat from that tree. 

But why do the definition sections for the Fall (page 18), Spiritual Death (page 19), and the 
Book of Mormon (Alma 12:31) say the Fall/Spiritual Death was caused by multiple events?
 

The Fall 
The event [singular] by which mankind became mortal. It resulted in a spiritual and physical 
separation from God. Because Adam and Eve, the first humans, disobeyed God’s commandments [plural], 
they were separated from His presence (this separation is also called spiritual death) and became 
mortal (subject to physical death).

Spiritual Death
Separation from God as a result of disobeying His commandments [plural]. 

Alma 12:31
Wherefore, he gave commandments unto men, they having first transgressed the first commandments [plural] 
as to things which were temporal, and becoming as gods, knowing good from evil, placing themselves in 
a state to act, or being placed in a state to act according to their wills and pleasures, whether to do 
evil or to do good.
 

Prior to the Fall in the garden of Eden, did Adam & Eve exist in a state to act according to God's
will and pleasure?

Thank you,

Matteo

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2 hours ago, romans8 said:

Hello,

Can someone explain this to me.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/content/english/manual/missionary/pdf/36950_the-plan-of-salvation-eng.pdf

Page 6 – Satan tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and they chose to do so. This was 
part of God’s plan. Because of their decision, they were separated from God’s presence physically 
and spiritually. They became mortal, that is, subject to sin and death. They were unable to return 
to Him without His help. Their physical and spiritual separation from God is called the Fall. 

I also believe the Fall was caused by the decision [a singular event] to eat from that tree. 

But why do the definition sections for the Fall (page 18), Spiritual Death (page 19), and the 
Book of Mormon (Alma 12:31) say the Fall/Spiritual Death was caused by multiple events?
 

The Fall 
The event [singular] by which mankind became mortal. It resulted in a spiritual and physical 
separation from God. Because Adam and Eve, the first humans, disobeyed God’s commandments [plural], 
they were separated from His presence (this separation is also called spiritual death) and became 
mortal (subject to physical death).

Spiritual Death
Separation from God as a result of disobeying His commandments [plural]. 

Alma 12:31
Wherefore, he gave commandments unto men, they having first transgressed the first commandments [plural] 
as to things which were temporal, and becoming as gods, knowing good from evil, placing themselves in 
a state to act, or being placed in a state to act according to their wills and pleasures, whether to do 
evil or to do good.
 

Prior to the Fall in the garden of Eden, did Adam & Eve exist in a state to act according to God's
will and pleasure?

Thank you,

Matteo

As for the “spiritual death” section you quotes above. My understanding is that it is referring to spiritual death in general And not the fall . When I sin, I die spiritually.
 

As for the rest it is likely just referring to the one commandment.

For example, Picture a child, while at the park, being told by his parent to stay out of the street, don’t hit, and share your toys. If he breaks those rules they will go home. While playing he sees a dog across the street so he decides to go to it. The mother then takes the kid and says “you broke the rules so we are going home.” Only one rule was broken yet the mother used the plural form. It would sound a little awkward if the mother said “You broke the rule so we are going home.”

Another way to look at it is that they did break at least two, and potentially 3, commandments. (1) partook of the fruit, (2) hid their sin from God, and (3) never multiplied and replenished the earth. 

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3 hours ago, romans8 said:

But why do the definition sections for the Fall (page 18), Spiritual Death (page 19), and the  Book of Mormon (Alma 12:31) say the Fall/Spiritual Death was caused by multiple events?

Prior to the Fall in the garden of Eden, did Adam & Eve exist in a state to act according to God's will and pleasure?

Singular events are also comprised of other multiple events. Depending on how deeply we analyze these events, we can say an event is both singular and comprised of multiple events. Thus, the definitions for the Fall and Spiritual Death and Alma 12:3 do not contradict Page 6 or your exegesis that the Fall was caused "[a singular event]".

Yes, prior to the Fall in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve existed in a state to act according to God's will and pleasure, given their paradisaical estate and condition.

Edited by CV75
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The above replies are excellent, and not much I could add to it, but will comment none the less. 

Because of the fall, each of us are susceptible to sin.  AS such, most of us sin quite regularly despite our best attempts to be better.

It is likely that as sin was introduced into the world, Adam and Eve did not just stop at the one transgression.  In fact, one could probably assume they started to lie to the Lord and to do other sorts of actions which were against the commandments of the Lord.  Each one of those would separate them spiritually from the Lord (and the same applies to us).

The Fall was what initially caused them to be separated from the Lord, but even if that was forgiven, their continued sins (if they did so) would cause them to once again be separated. 

You can look at it literally (as many of the members of the Church look at it as a literal story) but, as many things in the scriptures, is also figurative, having multiple meanings.  One of these is that Adam and Eve also are representative of mankind (Adam meaning man according to some).  As such, we each are separated from the Lord by our sins, and by our breaking of the commandments.  Most of us do not just break it one time, but break it continously, meaning that we break the commandments throughout our lives which also separate us spiritually.

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The plural part is referring to commandments of which there are many. But we only have to break one of them once to become unworthy to live in God's presence.

From the moment of their creation Adam and Eve always had the ability to act according to their own will and pleasure. Agency has always been a key element of God's plan for His children.

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23 hours ago, romans8 said:

Hello,

Can someone explain this to me.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/content/english/manual/missionary/pdf/36950_the-plan-of-salvation-eng.pdf

Page 6 – Satan tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and they chose to do so. This was 
part of God’s plan. Because of their decision, they were separated from God’s presence physically 
and spiritually. They became mortal, that is, subject to sin and death. They were unable to return 
to Him without His help. Their physical and spiritual separation from God is called the Fall. 

I also believe the Fall was caused by the decision [a singular event] to eat from that tree. 

But why do the definition sections for the Fall (page 18), Spiritual Death (page 19), and the 
Book of Mormon (Alma 12:31) say the Fall/Spiritual Death was caused by multiple events?

Thank you,

Matteo

I will take a different view - Lets begin with the initial statement - "The Plan of Salvation".  Why would it be called G-d's "Plan of Salvation"?  Anciently the word Salvation comes from the same root as "Salvage".    The very word "Salvage" has two parts.  The first part implies a state of ruin - the second part implies a "gathering" of what is of value or worth from that which is ruined and no longer of any value or worth.  

If we consider the initial description of G-d's purpose (creation) in Genesis:

Quote

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Rather than go into multiple pages describing G-d's Plan of Salvation as introduced in Genesis - let us look at just the symbiology concerning Salvation of the Salvage planned by G-d.  The symbolism here is that light is good and darkness is not good but something different.  Shall we call it evil?  Note that G-d did not create darkness (evil).  He created Light.  But his plan all along was to divide the light from the darkness and salvage the light.

If we follow the plan of G-d we will learn that his plan will conclude with what is called "The final Judgment".  This is the completion of dividing the light from the darkness.  

This is not rocket science - it is not without logic.  It is very simple.  In order for there to be "Salvation" for the greatest creation of G-d, would have to be separated from evil.  The only way for G-d's creation to come into contact with evil was if there was a fall.  Without a fall there could be no salvation. (dividing light from darkness).

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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On 9/27/2020 at 3:31 PM, CV75 said:

Yes, prior to the Fall in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve existed in a state to act according to God's will and pleasure, given their paradisaical estate and condition.

What were they doing that showed they were acting in God's will and pleasure?

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On 9/27/2020 at 10:48 AM, romans8 said:

But why do the definition sections for the Fall (page 18), Spiritual Death (page 19), and the 
Book of Mormon (Alma 12:31) say the Fall/Spiritual Death was caused by multiple events?

The story of Adam and Eve is both literal and figurative.

  • It literally happened to Adam and Eve (single event for both physical and spiritual deaths).
  • It figuratively informs us about ourselves.  Every time we sin we suffer a spiritual death for which we need to repent (multiple events).
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15 hours ago, romans8 said:

What were they doing that showed they were acting in God's will and pleasure?

They were only given three commandments.

1) Take care of the garden.
2) Be fruitful and multiply.
3) Don't eat the forbidden fruit.

There was really nothing to do for #1.  (Read about it in Genesis).

#2 There was no time limit on this commandment, so it was never actually "broken".  It simply wasn't fulfilled (yet).

#3 was pretty clear cut.  Prior to taking the fruit, they had not disobeyed any commandments.

God's will and pleasure was displayed by the fact that He let them remain in the Garden.  After partaking of the fruit - "Everybody!  Out of the pool!"

Edited by Carborendum
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12 hours ago, romans8 said:

What were they doing that showed they were acting in God's will and pleasure?

Everyone acts in God's will and pleasure, which is for us to obtain happiness through the exercise of agency. Genesis and other scriptures describe what Adam and Eve were doing in the Garden of Eden as they exercised their agency, and they exercised it imperfectly for they were not as gods. God anticipated and understood this from the foundation of the world. Through His Atonement from the foundation of the world, which was perfectly fulfilled in this world when He became flesh, God's mercy and grace reconcile the consequences of His children's imperfect exercise of agency.

Edited by CV75
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