DennisTate

Gospel Principles chapter forty one and "The Torch and the Sword" by Rick Joyner

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Is it just my imagination or is Jesus setting up a massive increase in cooperation between Latter day Saints and Pentecostals?

I read and re-read "The Final Quest" and "The Call" by Pastor Rick Joyner and then I found the third book in that trilogy and I was amazed to notice that it fits perfectly with chapter forty one of Gospel Principles.

If I have learned anything about how Jesus works in my sixty one years, (forty eight of which I have been studying the Jewish and Christian scriptures) then it sure looks to me like Jesus wants Latter day Saints and Pentecostals who really are led by the Holy Spirit to come together!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

Chapter 41

The Postmortal Spirit World

 

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“And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

“Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection” (Alma 40:12–14).

The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28–30), but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison (see D&C 138).

 

 

 

 

The Torch and the Sword by Rick Joyner

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It sure looks to me like what was shown to Pastor Rick Joyner in that visionary dream of heaven and the afterlife fits with what was shown to Latter day Saint near death experiencers that preaching and repentance continues on in what we would term "Hades."

 

https://www.near-death.com/science/experts/widdison-and-lundahl.html

 

 
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"Dr. Harold Widdison and Dr. Craig Lundahl's Near-Death Experience
 
Dr. Harold A. Widdison earned a Bachelors degree in Sociology and a MBA from Brigham Young University. He received his Ph.D. in Medical Sociology in 1979 and taught at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, Arizona for thirty-one years before retiring in 2003. Dr. Widdison became interested in the subject of death, grief, and bereavement two months before his marriage when his father suddenly died in a car a accident. He later created and taught one of the first courses on these subjects in a university setting. He also had several family members share their experiences with him one uncle had an NDE (near-death experience) on the operating table and an adopted daughter had a visit from her dead grandfather. Together with Dr. Craig Lundahl, Dr. Widdison documented their research in their classic NDE book entitled, The Eternal Journey. Dr. Craig Lundahl is chairman emeritus of the Department of Social Sciences and emeritus professor at Western New Mexico University. He is one of the pioneer NDE researchers and the author of A Collection of Near-Death Research Readings. Meticulously researched and exhaustively compiled, The Eternal Journey divulges mesmerizing eyewitness descriptions of the hereafter's City of Light, incredible portraits of existence in the ensuing dimension, and enlightening information on angels in this world and the next. Dr. Widdison's latest book, Trailing Clouds of Glory, is the result of seven years of interviewing, researching and collecting of first person accounts. The following is an excerpt of their book The Eternal Journey which deals with the various dimensions of the afterlife."

 

......
 
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To Herr Pettersson the world of spirits resembled the material world. There were many countries, or "Kingdoms." There were cities and villages, temples and palaces, flowers and animals of great beauty and variety. The people were very busy. Some were preaching on street corners and in assembly halls, and all had great congregations.

"Who are they?" Herr Pettersson asked (referring to the preachers)?

"They," his guide answered, "belong to the church of the First born, and they have been sent here to be ministering spirits to those who shall yet becoming heirs of salvation."

 

"I am afraid," stammered Herr Pettersson, "that I do not comprehend you. Are we not in heaven? How can the world of salvation be preached here?"

 

"No brother!" the guide replied, "We are not in what mortals call heaven! This is Hades."

Pettersson was ultimately permitted to visit "heaven" and its indescribable beauty. While there, he discovered that heaven also has multiple levels, and inhabitation of each level is contingent on one's diligence on Earth and in heaven.

 

But no matter what level or city a person qualifies for, each city is so superior to any on Earth that it is indescribable, and each succeeding realm is indescribably better than that immediately below it. It seems that the assignment to a specific city is contingent on the actions and attitudes of the individual while on Earth. The key that opens the gate to a specific city of light is the ability to dwell in the light of that city, and this evidently depends on behaviors during Earth life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Pastor Rick Joyner deserves a lot of credit for rebuking the modern lukewarm churches for our materialism and worldliness.

 

http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html

 

Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest.....   the opening paragraphs in the introduction....  

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The Evil Army

 

I saw a demonic army so large that it stretched as far as I could see. It was separated into divisions, with each carrying a different banner. The foremost and most powerful divisions were Pride, Self righteousness, Respectability, Selfish Ambition, and Unrighteous Judgment, but the largest of all was Jealousy. The leader of this vast army was the Accuser of the Brethren himself. I knew that there were many more evil divisions beyond my scope of vision, but these were the vanguard of this terrible horde from hell that was now being released against the church.

The weapons carried by this horde had names on them: the swords were named Intimidation; the spears were named Treachery; and their arrows were named Accusations, Gossip, Slander and Faultfinding. Scouts and smaller companies of demons with such names as Rejection, Bitterness, Impatience, Un-forgiveness and Lust were sent in advance of this army to prepare for the main attack. I knew in my heart that the church had never faced anything like this before.

The main assignment of this army was to cause division. It was sent to attack every level of relationship-churches with each other, congregations with their pastors, husbands and wives, children and parents, and even children with each other. The scouts were sent to locate the openings in churches, families or individuals that rejection, bitterness, lust, etc., could exploit and make a larger breech for the divisions that were coming.

The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not riding on horses, but on Christians! Most of them were well-dressed, respectable, and had the appearance of being refined and educated. These were Christians who had opened themselves to the powers of darkness to such a degree that the enemy could use them and they would think that they were being used by God. The Accuser knows that a house divided cannot stand, and this army represented his ultimate attempt to bring such complete division to the church that she would completely fall from grace.

The Prisoners

 

 

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My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

I have heard over and over again that Pentecostals are the most persecuted denomination of Christians in all the earth.  One of the reasons for that is that their lack of a full understanding of what really happens to the dead...... This lack of understanding of this critical topic causes Pentecostal teachings on the afterlife to be so black and white and overly simplified that their teachings are far more offensive than they really should be.  You Latter day Saints have, in my opinion, a much wiser and more well informed approach to what really happens after we die so.........  the way you approach many critical topics is more diplomatic so.... you end up leaving the people that you talk to with a much more positive feeling about their encounter with you.

Over the last five weeks I had about five one hour internet, (facetime) disussions with Latter day Saint Sisters and I was really impressed with the first session because the LDS Sisters approach the book and movie "Heaven is for Real" very much like I do.  I was so impressed that Pastor Todd Burpo was given credit for his willingness to listen to his little son and learn about what he was shown during his near death experience.

So..... please pray for open doors for Latter day Saints to be able somehow to fill in zealous and sincere Pentecostal preachers and teachers and let them know more about the state of the dead so that they can more effectively bring more people to genuine repentance and healing of their minds and hearts and bodies.  Your prayers and your intercession for your somewhat under-informed Pentecostal brethren will come back to you Latter day Saints in the form of blessings that will boggle your minds!

Over these past twenty years since my gifted Pentecostal wife was told that I was going to be her husband I have been researching Pentecostal teachings and I have ran into many that I feel powerfully will be put to even more effective use by Latter day Saints...... and many Pentecostals will not grasp how important some of the teachings of their own leaders really were.

Here are several important predictions by gifted Pentecostals that, I feel, will be understood better and applied more effectively by Latter day Saints than by the majority of Pentecostals:

Quote

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.
Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and
nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it
all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by
people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of
becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to
all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).

 

Mark Taylor, 7. 07. 2017, Satan's Frequency :

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The Spirit of God says, "Where are my billionaires and millionaires? Why are you not
buying out these news outlets and taking control? That money I gave you was for my
kingdom, to advance my kingdom in all areas of influence. Now is the time to move into
my news media! I will now take back what belongs to me using my Army and the
finances I have given them. Rise up my Army and take back my news media so the
spirit of truth will begin to flow. This is a fight the enemy does not want to see, he has
held this stronghold for too long and his time is up. Take this fight to the enemy and my
Army will be victorious and my media will be brought back to me."

 

I really like the idea of Latter day Saint missionaries acting like audio video journalists reporting on events in the areas where they are doing their missionary work and then later on...  what they learned from their two years as missionaries also prepares them to continue to work at least part time in the role  of reporters and journalists and film producers.

 

Although Pentecostal writer Pastor Rick Joyner gave the following prediction.... I feel this message will be understood more fully and applied more effectively by Latter day Saints who act on setting up news agencies that report on events that Jesus wants reported to the whole world!

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"The Lord is now preparing courageous leaders who
will be willing to fight a spiritual civil war in order to set men free.
The main issue, as in the American Civil War, will be slavery versus
freedom. The secondary issue, which will be the primary issue for some,
will be money
.

Just as the American Civil War at time looked like it would destroy the entire
nation, that which is coming upon the church will sometimes appear as if it will
bring the end of the church. However, just as the United States not only
survived but went on to become the most powerful nation on earth, the same
is going to happen to the church. The church will not be destroyed, but the institutions
and doctrines that have kept men in spiritual slavery will be" (Rick Joyner, The Vision, page 39)

 

The gifted Dr. Lance Wallnau put out a message that I feel you Latter day Saints will understand better due to some of what you already knew for more than a century.

 

Dr. Lance Wallnau, Invading Babylon, The Seven Mountain Mandate, Introduction :

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" C. Peter Wagner also brings great wisdom to this conversation about cultural transformation. He has been a forerunner in teaching about dominion theology and cultural transformation for years, and the fourth chapter of this book was originally published in his book, The Reformers Pledge. Wagner identifies one of the reasons the church has struggled with gaining momentum in cultural transformation : money. As the church gains wisdom in acquiring and distributing finances, she will gain great favor and influence in the world.

We all know that money makes the world go round, but the church often doesn't seem to have enough. Most local congregations host fundraisers every time they want to do something beyond the monthly budget. Youth groups wash cars for cash and adults make building pledges, but we need to learn how to gain and steward money more effectively. It is admittedly difficult to gain any momentum with cultural transformation if you need to raise special funds every time your church has a creative idea to reach your community. Wagner offers fresh insights and strategies about raising and stewarding finances so we can fund God's expanding kingdom.

Che Ahn takes the Seven Mountains Mandate one step further by advocating for something beyond cultural transformation. He is committed to seeing cultural reformation. A reformation brings lasting change to a society. Consider, for example, the revolutionary and long - lasting effect of the Protestant Revormation " (Dr. Lance Wallnau, Invading Babylon, The Seven Mountains Mandate, Introduction).

 

 

Just as Apollos was instructed by Aquila and Priscilla so also many gifted Pentecostals will be assisted to be much more effective servants for Jesus by their Latter day Saint friends and family members.  

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/acts/18?lang=eng

24  And a certain Jew named aApollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and bmighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was ainstructed in the way of the Lord; and being bfervent in the spirit, he spake and taught cdiligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of dJohn.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

 

 
Edited by DennisTate
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And now for something truly COLOSSAL!

Dr. Kevin Zadai was Pentecostal all of his life but he admitted that when he met Jesus during his 1992 near death experience he was shown that his understanding of most topics had been terribly in error.  I took fourteen of his online courses already partly in order to attempt to better understand the pretty amazing spiritual gifts that my wife has and operates in.

 

Paying off of the national debt of the USA... I feel will largely be led by Latter day Saints!

 

Dr. Kevin Zadai, Prayer Secrets Level 1, Warrior Notes School of Ministry, lesson 4 :
 

Quote

Jesus said that this unbelieving world is not going to accept you, but He said, “Do not fear, for I have overcome the world.” What is it that is bothering you today? You might not think that you have access to the Father, but it has been provided to you. You might think that you cannot just go to the Father and ask Him for something. The first thing you should ask the Father is to open your eyes. Your relationship with God is going to drive out fear. You have to grasp that God is not limiting you. He has never limited you. The Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost and took the ceiling off. You can go as high and as far as you want.

If you would believe, God would give you the ability to completely pay off our national debt. God has a way of paying off our debt in our country. There is a way to do it. God knows that secret. But instead of focusing on our country, what about focusing on your bills? What does the Holy Spirit want to tell you by pulling back a veil that will cause you to be debt-free within the year? That will happen if you believe. The Holy Spirit has so much more for you, but you have limited Him. Because you have limited Him, He can’t speak to you. Because of that, people that are prophetic can’t come to you and confirm what God has said because you won’t hear it.

You can trust God. Relationships that you are having trouble with can be resolved tomorrow morning. If you accept what God is saying, the Spirit of God will enforce a blessing in your life to the point where you will see your family members and friends start to respond. " (Dr. Kevin Zadai, Prayer Secrets Level 1, Warrior Notes School of Ministry, lesson 4 )

 

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Latter day Saints and Evangelical Christians should cooperate more even on the production of various types of films. If you do this together you will be able to reach a much larger audience very effectively and quickly. Near death experiencer Bob Jones predicted a ONE BILLION SOUL HARVEST... and I think it is beginning.
 
 
....."One idea would be for BYU to have a class plus reality film series starring Pastor Marilyn Braxton who prayed in a special way and her husband was sent back by Jesus after he flatlined for an hour and forty five minutes. If Latter day Saint audio video journalists report on the classes and interviews done by Pastor Marilyn Braxton and her husband Pastor Dean Braxton as they pray in hospitals near BYU... (Brigham Young University) , then..... miracles will happen and astonishing audio video interviews and shows will be produced that will be watched for years, decades and centuries in the future."
 

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I suspect that most of those non-LDS who might cooperate with LDS, due to revelations that the church's doctrines (such as on pre/post mortal existence) are true would consider themselves Charismatics, rather than Pentecostals. It's s subtle nuance, but probably important. Both speak in tongues, but most Pentecostals belong to denominations (like my Assemblies of God one) and trace their roots to the revivals of the early 1900s. They tend to be more conservative theologically and in how they live out holiness standards. They are more cautious with dreams, visions, and prophetic words. These are accepted, but only after being vetted by scripture. Further, most Pentecostals treat gifts of the Spirit as primarily intended for a local congregation or community, not for national or international application. Charismatics, on the other hand, are much more open to broadly applying and embracing prophetic words, dreams and visions. Additionally, they are quicker to embrace doctrinal innovation. Most tie their roots to the Holy Spirit renewal movements of the 1960s, and many are either non-denominational, or belong to mainline (Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.) churches.

Edited by prisonchaplain

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On 10/26/2020 at 8:56 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I suspect that most of those non-LDS who might cooperate with LDS, due to revelations that the church's doctrines (such as on pre/post mortal existence) are true would consider themselves Charismatics, rather than Pentecostals. It's s subtle nuance, but probably important. Both speak in tongues, but most Pentecostals belong to denominations (like my Assemblies of God one) and trace their roots to the revivals of the early 1900s. They tend to be more conservative theologically and in how they live out holiness standards. They are more cautious with dreams, visions, and prophetic words. These are accepted, but only after being vetted by scripture. Further, most Pentecostals treat gifts of the Spirit as primarily intended for a local congregation or community, not for national or international application. Charismatics, on the other hand, are much more open to broadly applying and embracing prophetic words, dreams and visions. Additionally, they are quicker to embrace doctrinal innovation. Most tie their roots to the Holy Spirit renewal movements of the 1960s, and many are either non-denominational, or belong to mainline (Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.) churches.

I think that you are absolutely correct.  Charismatic Christians who have a Roman Catholic background and were taught about Purgatory as a child seem to be more willing to take near death experience accounts more seriously than Christians who were taught a very simple Saved vs Lost, going on to Heaven or Hell after death, theology.  

Pastor Todd Burpo admits that he was shocked and challenged by much of what his little son began to explain to him when he was four, five, six, seven and eight years of age after his near death experience at three years and ten months of age.  Pastor Todd Burpo is co-author of "Heaven is for Real."

Roman Catholics, Charismatic Catholics and Latter day Saints share a less dogmatic teaching on the afterlife and I feel that they are more willing to accept what I suspect is a major truth for our time period in which I believe a promise is being kept, (significantly through near death experience accounts that contain a valid Life Review with Jesus).

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 

For example, what former Skeptic Howard Storm was shown about the world that Jesus wanted to usher in by around 2185 fits amazingly well with the predictions of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets.

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04

 

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The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

 

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

 

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

 

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

 

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.

 

People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.

 

Animals lived with people, in harmony.

 

People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.

 

In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn't have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.

 

 

What Howard Storm was shown about the future makes the teachings of the Jewish and Christian Bible on The Millennium or the Era of Messiah so much more clear and easily understood.  

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
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The Life Review given to former Skeptic Howard Storm sure seems to fulfill several important promises by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to all of his disciples in all time periods.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/30006.htm

[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls."

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a03
 

Quote

 

3. The Life Review of Howard Storm
 

dante_last_judgment.jpgNext, they wanted to talk about my life. To my surprise my life played out before me, maybe six or eight feet in front of me, from beginning to end.

 

The life review was very much in their control, and they showed me my life, but not from my point of view. I saw me in my life and this whole thing was a lesson, even though I didn't know it at the time. They were trying to teach me something, but I didn't know it was a teaching experience, because I didn't know that I would be coming back. We just watched my life from beginning to the end. Some things they slowed down on, and zoomed in on and other things they went right through.

 

My life was shown in a way that I had never thought of before. All of the things that I had worked to achieve, the recognition that I had worked for, in elementary school, in high school, in college, and in my career, they meant nothing in this setting.

 

I could feel their feelings of sorrow and suffering, or joy, as my life's review unfolded. They didn't say that something was bad or good, but I could feel it. And I could sense all those things they were indifferent to. They didn't, for example, look down on my high school shot-put record. They just didn't feel anything towards it, nor towards other things which I had taken so much pride in.

 

What they responded to was how I had interacted with other people. That was the long and short of it. Unfortunately, most of my interactions with other people didn't measure up with how I should have interacted, which was in a loving way. Whenever I did react during my life in a loving way they rejoiced.
 
Most of the time I found that my interactions with other people had been manipulative. During my professional career, for example, I saw myself sitting in my office, playing the college professor, while a student came to me with a personal problem. I sat there looking compassionate, and patient, and loving, while inside I was bored to death. I would check my watch under my desk as I anxiously waited for the student to finish.
 
I got to go through all those kinds of experiences in the company of these magnificent beings.

 

When I was a teenager my father's career put him into a high-stress, twelve-hour-a-day job. Out of my resentment because of his neglect of me, when he came home from work, I would be cold and indifferent toward him. This made him angry, and it gave me further excuse to feel hatred toward him. He and I fought, and my mother would get upset. Most of my life I had felt that my father was the villain and I was the victim. When we reviewed my life I got to see how I had precipitated so much of that, myself. Instead of greeting him happily at the end of a day, I was continually putting thorns in him in order to justify my hurt.

 

 

 

 

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Edited by DennisTate
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Pentecostal or Charismatic Prophet Kim Clement predicted somehow that Mr. Bill Gates would repent and would somehow open up some sort of "Financial Gates for the Bride of Messiah, the Church!"

I feel that Jesus is sending a message to America through near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai and I feel that Latter day Saints will be the denomination of Christianity that will very likely catch onto how to make this actually work first:
 
Quote

 

"If you would believe, God would give you the ability to completely pay off our national debt. God has a way of paying off our debt in our country. There is a way to do it. God knows that secret. But instead of focusing on our country, what about focusing on your bills? What does the Holy Spirit want to tell you by pulling back a veil that will cause you to be debt-free within the year? That will happen if you believe. The Holy Spirit has so much more for you, but you have limited Him. Because you have limited Him, He can’t speak to you. Because of that, people that are prophetic can’t come to you and confirm what God has said because you won’t hear it.
You can trust God. Relationships that you are having trouble with can be resolved tomorrow morning. If you accept what God is saying, the Spirit of God will enforce a blessing in your life to the point where you will see your family members and friends start to respond. " (Dr. Kevin Zadai, Prayer Secrets Level 1, Warrior Notes School of Ministry, lesson 4 )

 

The Bible is correct to teach that human productivity is essentially without limit....

"And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Genesis 11)
 
... but money is used to organize human producitivity.....
Ecclesiastes 10:19
"A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things. "

Latter day Saints do an astonishing amount of volunteerism and.... one possible way to work out the paying off of the national debt of the USA would be for the creation of some sort of "Latter day Saint Volunteerism Hour."  One of the important points to remember though is that an alternative currency is taxable, and must be linked to the value of the USA dollar in such a way that taxes can easily be calculated on what somebody earns in an alternative currency.

Now that there are sixteen million Latter day Saints and fifty thousand missionaries going out even during the COVID 19 pandemic...... (up to eighty thousand LDS missionaries during more normal years), I feel that you Latter day Saints are all set up to fulfill a prophecy that was given to you nearly two centuries ago regarding your playing an important role in saving the USA Constitution.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
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Here is an article that in my opinion sets up Latter day Saints with an important part of the formula that can lead to the paying off of the national debt of the USA.... and cooperation with several gifted Pentecostal writers and thinkers will be necessary to accomplish all of this.

 

 

https://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/pf/local_currency/index.htm?iid=F_Jump

 

Local currencies: 'In the U.S. we don't trust'

By Blake Ellis @CNNMoney January 27, 2012: 11:13 AM ET

Quote

Now, even state governments are exploring the option. Lawmakers in more than 10 states, including Virginia, Georgia, South Carolina, Idaho and Tennessee, have been circulating proposals to introduce alternative currencies -- many of which would be issued in the form of gold or silver coins.

The Constitution prohibits individual states from printing and issuing paper money as legal tender, but they are allowed to use coins as currency, said Gatch. Individual communities, however, are able to create their own currencies -- including paper notes. Anyone can do it -- as long as the money is easily distinguishable from U.S. dollars and values are tied to the U.S. dollar so that income remains taxable.

Fear factor: Francis Ayley, the founder of Life Dollars, a currency started in Bellingham, Wash., in 2004, said fear of a shortage of U.S. dollars and frustration with the growing wealth gap in the country are driving more people to his currency. Since a majority of the transactions occur online and funds are directly transferred between members, the supply of Life Dollars is unlimited, he said.

The number of people or businesses signed up to use the currency, or members as Ayley refers to them, had remained relatively stable at 250 to 350 for years. But in the past two years, membership has doubled to more than 700. The currency's use has expanded beyond Bellingham to Seattle, too, where 75 new members have signed on in the past six months. Ayley estimates that more than $1 million worth of transactions have been made so far.

 

 

 

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There is logic in combining the paying off of the national debts of both Canada and the USA with a plan to cause the USA and Canadian dollars to go to par with each other!

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3 hours ago, DennisTate said:

Roman Catholics, Charismatic Catholics and Latter day Saints share a less dogmatic teaching on the afterlife and I feel that they are more willing to accept what I suspect is a major truth for our time period in which I believe a promise is being kept, (significantly through near death experience accounts that contain a valid Life Review with Jesus).

This makes sense. What is your take on the response--are the Catholics, Messianic Jews, and LDS you interact with receptive, intrigued, or somewhat resistant?

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1 minute ago, prisonchaplain said:

This makes sense. What is your take on the response--are the Catholics, Messianic Jews, and LDS you interact with receptive, intrigued, or somewhat resistant?

What I have noticed is that what I write and how I word it seems to be very offensive to Pentecostals but Latter day Saints, Charismatic Catholics and many Messianic Jews see the incredible potential in using genuine near death experience accounts that include a Life Review with Jesus, as a powerful tool to reach millions with the gospel in a whole new way in language that is easy to understand.  

I think that using NDE accounts as a tool fits with the promise....

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

For example the book "My Descent Into Death" could be looked at as a part of the "testimony" of former Atheist Howard Storm.  His book has great power to clarify so many scriptures that in the past left us confused.  

Here is a statement by Mr. Howard Storm in his book that really tends to offend many Pentecostal thinkers.

Quote

"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart. The anguish that Jesus was suffering at the slaughter of his people was too much for me to bear and I begged that we leave this place. I will never forget this: his anguish at this horror and what it represents. This was one of the low points in human history."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events." (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

 

Latter day Saints, Charismatic Catholics and Messianic Jews who take NDE accounts seriously tend to welcome statements like this but many Pentecostals feel that these paragraphs somehow contradict:

 

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

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10 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

This makes sense. What is your take on the response--are the Catholics, Messianic Jews, and LDS you interact with receptive, intrigued, or somewhat resistant?

My extremely gifted Pentecostal wife avoids reading pretty much everything that I write due to how annoying my approach is to her.  

Jesus somehow told her that I would be her husband and that I would always tell her the truth.... but Jesus did not tell her that I am always correct in what I believe.... I think that there are probably all kinds of errors left in my thinking but until Jesus shows me what those errors are.... there is no way that I can figure all of them out myself.  

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I cannot speak too much about Roman Catholicism (other than understanding that the doctrine of purgatory leads to an openness), however the resistance of Pentecostals makes sense to me. We are cautious about doctrinal error for several reasons. First, we have a short history, but always seem to be fighting off heresies within our midst. Within 5-years of my denomination's founding (1914) we faced "The New Issue" (Modalism--Jesus as Father, Son and Holy Spirit). In the late 1940s we joined the National Association of Evangelicals, but not with out enduring skepticism and condescension from several within the group (we were hicks, given to emotion, weak on education and doctrine, in their view). More recently, it's been the prosperity gospel and rapture-date-setters. Then there's the anti-intellectualism that was so strong in our early years (education = liberal sell out). Now we have a seminary, many of our pastors are well-educated, and we are the largest group in the NAE. So, I imagine that talk of near-death-experiences as validation of doctrine reminds too many of our years as theological deplorables. Then there is the over-comfort (in our view) that some Charismatics have with doctrinal and experiential innovations. None of this means you are wrong. Rather, it may give you added perspective on Pentecostal discomfort with some of what you describe.

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8 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I cannot speak too much about Roman Catholicism (other than understanding that the doctrine of purgatory leads to an openness), however the resistance of Pentecostals makes sense to me. We are cautious about doctrinal error for several reasons. First, we have a short history, but always seem to be fighting off heresies within our midst. Within 5-years of my denomination's founding (1914) we faced "The New Issue" (Modalism--Jesus as Father, Son and Holy Spirit). In the late 1940s we joined the National Association of Evangelicals, but not with out enduring skepticism and condescension from several within the group (we were hicks, given to emotion, weak on education and doctrine, in their view). More recently, it's been the prosperity gospel and rapture-date-setters. Then there's the anti-intellectualism that was so strong in our early years (education = liberal sell out). Now we have a seminary, many of our pastors are well-educated, and we are the largest group in the NAE. So, I imagine that talk of near-death-experiences as validation of doctrine reminds too many of our years as theological deplorables. Then there is the over-comfort (in our view) that some Charismatics have with doctrinal and experiential innovations. None of this means you are wrong. Rather, it may give you added perspective on Pentecostal discomfort with some of what you describe.

I first got baptized in 1979 by Pastor Richard Wilding of The Worldwide Church of God.

In the 1990's I was baptized again by Pastor Donald Mansanger of Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly.

Several years ago I was baptized again through a Pastor in The Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada but... I didn't officially join any church since the Worldwide Church of God which I separated from in 1991.

I attended the local ward of the Latter day Saints four times in 2019 and I began to pray and ask if I should be baptized again by Latter day Saint Elders and I seem to have heard the Holy Spirit more clearly than in years.  What I was told was that I was supposed to assist Latter day Saints to connect with Jews living in Israel and more recently I was told by the Holy Spirit that I should assist Latter day Saints to find common ground for cooperation with Pentecostals and other Christian denominations. 

PrisonChaplain...... I feel that you need to get ready to be counselling some rather high profile prisoners who will be led to genuine repentance.  Strangely enough... .many of them will soon realize that their losing their freedom was one of the best things that could have happened to them because.... losing their freedom will set them up to find their Messiah which makes a lack of freedom truly worthwhile.  

Edited by DennisTate
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Because of the level of spiritual maturity and humility that Pastor Rick Joyner had attained by 2012..... he is set up in a very special way now in 2020.
 

Pastor Rick Joyner's critics did all of us a favour by making sure that this footage was preserved into 2020.  

Edited by DennisTate
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This concept is worth repeating.... 

....."One idea would be for BYU to have a class plus reality film series starring Pastor Marilyn Braxton who prayed in a special way and her husband was sent back by Jesus after he flatlined for an hour and forty five minutes. If Latter day Saint audio video journalists report on the classes and interviews done by Pastor Marilyn Braxton and her husband Pastor Dean Braxton as they pray in hospitals near BYU... (Brigham Young University) , then..... miracles will happen and astonishing audio video interviews and shows will be produced that will be watched for years, decades and centuries in the future."

 

 

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