The second coming is in March


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4 hours ago, romans8 said:

About these verses

95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the 
curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord 
shall be unveiled;

96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet 
him.

97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they 
also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven

Does verse 97 happen before verse 96?

They read as events that happen at the same time to me to me.  Barring any reason to think otherwise that is what I am thinking. The face of the Lord is unveiled and the righteous both living and dead are brought forth.  It is understandable that people read this and think Second Coming... It is that line of thought that drives the 2 Silence idea.

Because the silence in Book of Revelations ends a bunch of stuff happens then the Second Coming Happens.  The time frames simply do not work, and the 2nd Silence is one way to reconcile it.  Another way would be to have the D&C verses of 96 and 97 not reference the Second Coming but rather an event to take place before the Second Coming.  That would mean that the Face of the Lord is only unfolded/unveiled to the Righteous (aka those with eyes to see) as a preparation.. possibly the Church of God bringing forth the Kingdom of God... (The Book of Revelation's woman giving birth).  If this idea holds then things get very interesting with the dead being raised and all.

 

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19 hours ago, Traveler said:

Just a thought or perhaps speculation.  There will be two great temples.  One in Jerusalem and one in Zion or the New Jerusalem.  It is speculation on my part that the great city of Enoch was where the temple of Zion (Missouri) is to be built.  Again it is my speculation that another great city called Salem (over which Melchizedek rained as king) was at the spot where Jerusalem  (and the temple lot) is today.  And so I speculate that when the City of Enoch and Salem returns - that it could be quite quick.  Perhaps within a single day.  And that when those cities return; that they will return with their Temples. 

From my understanding. no one is suggesting that the second coming will be this next March - April timeframe.  I do not think it will occur so soon.  But all this is speculation.  My point of this post is to not procrastinate.  That if there is not enough "oil" on one's lamp that they prepare such necessities now (this very day).  Perhaps no later than by next March-April of the coming spring.  I personally think that speculating that the 2nd coming will be later than what is actual - to be much more foolish than speculating that it will occur sooner than what will be.  And yet we tend to mock more those that prepare too early rather than those that speculate and procrastinate a date which is too late. 

 

The Traveler

Two thoughts. First it is prophesied that in the last days people will say the Lord delayeth his coming. I use to interpret that as the people worrying about why the Lord hasn't already come considering how bad things are. But lately I have also begun to interpret it as some saying it as an excuse to not mend their ways and to indulge in worldliness because there is plenty of time to repent. I think we can see both attitudes in the two approaches of the 10 virgins.

Second, as much as we want to be prepared for the Savior's coming at some future point, the reality is that Satan is coming into the world more and more right now. There will soon be no option for a lukewarm approach to living the gospel. If we are not actively preparing for the Second Coming we will by default be swallowed up by the world.

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2 hours ago, laronius said:

Two thoughts. First it is prophesied that in the last days people will say the Lord delayeth his coming. I use to interpret that as the people worrying about why the Lord hasn't already come considering how bad things are. But lately I have also begun to interpret it as some saying it as an excuse to not mend their ways and to indulge in worldliness because there is plenty of time to repent. I think we can see both attitudes in the two approaches of the 10 virgins.

Second, as much as we want to be prepared for the Savior's coming at some future point, the reality is that Satan is coming into the world more and more right now. There will soon be no option for a lukewarm approach to living the gospel. If we are not actively preparing for the Second Coming we will by default be swallowed up by the world.

I appreciate your contribution - There is nothing I would change.  But as a thought.  Five years ago if someone were to ask my opinion concerning the closing of all temples world wide to vicarious work for the dead - I would have given the opinion that things are winding up and that we would be in the Last-days - not the last years, months or weeks.

But the truth is - I really do not know but I feel as though we will experience the hand of the L-rd even more than did Israel leaving Egypt under the divine call of Moses.

 

The Traveler

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So I came across something today that made me reconsider the interpretation of the duration of the half hour of silence. The most common interpretation is using the 1 day = 1000 years calculation. But that's assuming that 1 day had 24 equal units termed hours. What I learned today is that the ancient Hebrew calendar had 24 hours but the duration of each hour changed throughout the year. They were known as relative hours. In other words the daytime (when the sun was up) was divided into 12 hours no matter what time of year it was. So an hour during the summer was longer than during the winter. The night also had 12 relative hours. Not that this proves anything other than don't get your mind set on any one interpretation. 

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On 11/14/2020 at 4:12 PM, estradling75 said:

That would mean that the Face of the Lord is only unfolded/unveiled to the Righteous (aka those with eyes to see) as a preparation.. possibly the Church of God bringing forth the Kingdom of God... (The Book of Revelation's woman giving birth).

Some interpret the woman of Revelation 12 as being Israel, according to Joseph's dream (Genesis 37:9-11).
In that dream, the sun represented Jacob, the moon represented Joseph’s mother Rachel, and the eleven 
stars were the sons of Israel which bowed down to Joseph. In this sign with twelve stars, Joseph is now 
among the other tribes of Israel.

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39 minutes ago, romans8 said:

Some interpret the woman of Revelation 12 as being Israel, according to Joseph's dream (Genesis 37:9-11).
In that dream, the sun represented Jacob, the moon represented Joseph’s mother Rachel, and the eleven 
stars were the sons of Israel which bowed down to Joseph. In this sign with twelve stars, Joseph is now 
among the other tribes of Israel.

Israel is a perfectly reasonable interpretation as the earthly manifestation... As for the dream interpretation let not forget Revelation 12 starts off as a "Sign In Heaven" so the symbolism we are looking for should be "In the Heavens" a symbolism that reflects something about to happen on earth.  Some think that Sign has be been given already.

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On 11/21/2020 at 10:13 AM, estradling75 said:

Israel is a perfectly reasonable interpretation as the earthly manifestation... As for the dream interpretation let not forget Revelation 12 starts off as a "Sign In Heaven" so the symbolism we are looking for should be "In the Heavens" a symbolism that reflects something about to happen on earth.  Some think that Sign has be been given already.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a unique interpretation of Revelation 12.

JST, Revelation 12:7 - And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the 
child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her 
pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.

JST, Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of 
the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been 
slain, having twelve horns and twelve eyes, which are the twelve servants of 
God, sent forth into all the earth.

The woman is the church of God and the twelve stars are the Twelve Apostles.  It does not identify the moon and 
the sun. I would not agree that the church of God gives birth to Christ, but instead Christ gives birth to the church.

The Interlinear Greek has a different reading of Revelation 5:6
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev5.pdf

"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a 
Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into 
all the earth
".

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2 hours ago, romans8 said:

 I would not agree that the church of God gives birth to Christ, but instead Christ gives birth to the church.
 

You can believe what you wish.  Christ is of course involved.

But when Christ brings forth his Kingdom (Which is what this is talking about)... it is not going to come from nothing... Its going to be organized out of the body of the Faithful (aka Church in the most generic use of the term)  Thus the Church of God brings forth the Kingdom God through the effort and Power of Christ

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2 hours ago, romans8 said:

The woman is the church of God and the twelve stars are the Twelve Apostles.  It does not identify the moon and the sun. I would not agree that the church of God gives birth to Christ, but instead Christ gives birth to the church.

I found this on a non-LDS website (I think it was Catholic) that I think is helpful:

"In Revelation 12:1-6 we see into heaven and there behold the woman, the dragon, and the woman's child. In verses 7-12 we read of the archangel Michael and the dragon who move from heaven to earth, and then in verses 13-17 of the dragon, the woman, and her child, all of whom are on earth. It would appear that the woman has a primary reference to the people of God, Israel, and the church, with a secondary reference to Mary, mother of the Messiah: she is a "type" of the church."

So we aren't the only ones with this interpretation but you are right in that often the Church represents the wife or intended bride of Jesus and we are the offspring of that union when we are born again. Though we know that Jesus does fill the roles of both Father and Son at times and if we compare the description of the conception of Jesus Christ it sounds a whole lot like the process of being born again. Such as this verse in our scripture:

D&C 5:16 And behold, whosoever believeth on my words, them will I visit with the manifestation of my Spirit; and they shall be born of me, even of water and of the Spirit-

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On a somewhat unrelated but interesting sidenote, the name Mary is believed to have been brought out of Egypt with the deliverance of Israel and is believed to be derived from the Egyptian word "mry" meaning beloved. Could thus be part of the reason or symbolism behind why God always introduces Jesus as His "beloved Son," maybe?

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On 11/22/2020 at 3:53 PM, estradling75 said:

You can believe what you wish.  Christ is of course involved.

But when Christ brings forth his Kingdom (Which is what this is talking about)... it is not going to come from nothing... Its going to be organized out of the body of the Faithful (aka Church in the most generic use of the term)  Thus the Church of God brings forth the Kingdom God through the effort and Power of Christ

What is the meaning of this verse?

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a
thousand two hundred and threescore days
"

So the church of God (assuming the identity mentioned in the JST and not an apostate church) is protected by
God, but who is feeding her and for how long?

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36 minutes ago, romans8 said:

What is the meaning of this verse?

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a
thousand two hundred and threescore days
"

So the church of God (assuming the identity mentioned in the JST and not an apostate church) is protected by
God, but who is feeding her and for how long?

If we had exact answers we would not be speculating..  Its a place prepared of God for the woman.. thus the they who should feed her for three and half years are whomever are in the place that God prepared. 

Now we have certain areas in our faith that we have been told to gather...One is the Salt Lake area.  If the Church (as generic term for believer) is forced to flee, and if the Salt Lake area is the placed prepared of God, then we would be the ones doing it.

Another place we have as a gathering place would the be Jackson County Missouri area.  We got kicked out of there.  We expect to go back.  If that is the place the Lord prepared for the woman then those that get there first would support and help those that get there later.

Or the Lord could have something else planned and we do not know the details yet.

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22 hours ago, romans8 said:

What is the meaning of this verse?

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a
thousand two hundred and threescore days
"

So the church of God (assuming the identity mentioned in the JST and not an apostate church) is protected by
God, but who is feeding her and for how long?

I'm not sure about the time mentioned. Perhaps it is a specific period of time or something more general but the woman represents God's people or more specifically His church. Being driven into the wilderness is referring to apostasy. Similar to the Israelites spending 40 years in the wilderness due to their disobedience. The wilderness is a condition of being chastened and prepared to entering into a promised land to live a more holy existence. This is a pattern that has played out multiple times throughout history both for individuals and groups of people. I think in this instance it is referring to the Church falling away from the truth after the time of Christ. Eventually it would be restored through the prophet Joseph Smith but in the meantime it had to endure what we call the dark ages. I think the feeding referred to was the fact that Christianity endured even in it's fallen condition and then with the inspired help of Martin Luther and other reformers and the invention of the printing press which allowed much greater circulation of the Bible and in the formation of a new nation where religious tolerance existed, all of which helped to breath new life into Christianity, the way was prepared for the Lord to re-establish His Church and bring it back out of the wilderness to enjoy it's full blessings and standing before the Lord.

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