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Voter fraud doesn't need to be a nationwide or even statewide effort to affect the election. It only needs to be done just 'enough' to beat the projections. In addition it only needs to be done in just the right places i.e. specific counties in swing states. There is no reason to commit fraud in states you were already expected to easily win. There is also no reason to commit fraud in states you were never ever going to win as this could be the red flag that alerts others to you.

The best thefts/frauds are the ones where the victims never realized the crime ever took place.
According to the PA legislature hearings this past week, what was once a carefully planned attempt to commit fraud in that state, turned into a last minute panicked, desperate and careless rush to compensate for a Trump landslide. In their panicked rush, the fraudsters sloppily left not only crumbs of their fraudulent ways but rather left giant loaves of bread.

The proof that the Trump Legal Team offered doesn't refer to minor fraud, it was primarily huge last minute fraud that affected 100,000's of votes and easily the PA results. I watched all 3+ hrs of the hearings. I didn't want the media's take on it, I wanted to hear it for myself. If someone could watch the PA hearings and then still cry that no evidence exists... well then no amount of proof will ever satisfy that person.

Edited by NeedleinA

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11 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Voter fraud doesn't need to be a nationwide or even statewide effort to affect the election. It only needs to be done just 'enough' to beat the projections. In addition it only needs to be done in just the right places i.e. specific counties in swing states. There is no reason to commit fraud in states you were already expected to easily win. There is also no reason to commit fraud in states you were never ever going to win as this could be the red flag that alerts others to you.

The best thefts/frauds are the ones where the victims never realized the crime ever took place.
According to the PA legislature hearings this past week, what was once a carefully planned attempt to commit fraud in that state, turned into a last minute panicked, desperate and careless rush to compensate for a Trump landslide. In their panicked rush, the fraudsters sloppily left not only crumbs of their fraudulent ways but rather left giant loaves of bread.

The proof that the Trump Legal Team offered doesn't refer to minor fraud, it was primarily huge last minute fraud that affected 100,000's of votes and easily the PA results. I watched all 3+ hrs of the hearings. I didn't want the media's take on it, I wanted to hear it for myself. If someone could watch the PA hearings and then still cry that no evidence exists... well then no amount of proof will ever satisfy that person.

That and the Fact that the Electoral College does not vote until December 14th...  Means that Trump's legal challenges have not slowed, stopped or delayed a single thing that is legally required to happen... Yet.

We have simply be spoiled by the history of candidates conceding the election, before it technically takes place.  But us being spoiled does not make what Trump is doing wrong or incorrect.

As for voter fraud.. power corrupts... votes are power.  The very people who are suppose to be protecting the votes are the very people who can gain power by adding fraud to the mix.. If the guardians and protectors of the vote are corrupted we need a aggrieved third party (In this case Trump) to challenge the result.  It is a simple fact that such challenges take time and resources to gather and present the evidence.  That demand means that the third party (whomever they might be) will focus on the locations that are most likely to give them what they want.

I would love to see a nation-wide review of all the votes by a bipartisan committee.  But it seems we do not have the political will to make that happen.  

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2 hours ago, estradling75 said:

1. focus on the locations that are most likely to give them what they want.
2. I would love to see a nation-wide review of all the votes by a bipartisan committee.
3. But it seems we do not have the political will to make that happen.  

You are spot on with your post.
1. Time is not on the Trump Legal Team's side right now and the fraudsters know it, in fact they are banking on it. This isn't just a "catch us if you can", it is a "catch us if you can by the deadline". With those deadlines in place, you have to throw your limited resources where you can make an impact 'now', not later.

2. I absolutely agree, a bipartisan committee would be great. Let the findings take us where they may. This is the path that Sidney Powell is pursuing right now. Republican/Democrat, left/right, she and her team are going after the truth no matter who it burns. She is focused on the long game.

3. Cowardice is the word that has swept over many Republicans & Republican leadership right now. This election is theirs to lose OR it is theirs to win if they will simply step up to the plate like those in PA are attempting to do now.

Edited by NeedleinA

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1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

3. Cowardice is the word that has swept over many Republicans & Republican leadership right now. This election is theirs to lose OR it is theirs to win if they will simply step up to the plate like those in PA are attempting to do now.

I wish I believed it was just cowardice... Republican are just as vulnerable to the corruption of power as the Democrats.  And if Biden was in the losing seat right now he have every reason to question that unexpected surge in Trump votes that you say caused the Fraudsters to panic.  I am very much concerned that we had two sets of fraudsters at work and we are only really focused on one of them. 

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4 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I wish I believed it was just cowardice... Republican are just as vulnerable to the corruption of power as the Democrats.  And if Biden was in the losing seat right now he have every reason to question that unexpected surge in Trump votes that you say caused the Fraudsters to panic.  I am very much concerned that we had two sets of fraudsters at work and we are only really focused on one of them. 

This is why I'm glad that people like Powell are out there chasing the 'truth' regardless of who it affects.

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3 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I wish I believed it was just cowardice... Republican are just as vulnerable to the corruption of power as the Democrats.  And if Biden was in the losing seat right now he have every reason to question that unexpected surge in Trump votes that you say caused the Fraudsters to panic.  I am very much concerned that we had two sets of fraudsters at work and we are only really focused on one of them. 

I think this is an important point.

1.  It's the entrenched system that is corrupt, not the party.  GOP fought against Trump, too.  Trump beat them at the ground game and social media.  Social media wasn't going to allow the to happen again, though.

2.  People are tribal.  At any given time, only half the country will complain about the process.  The winning team typically shuts up and takes their win.

3.  The media is corrupt.  They have interfered in this election through what they do, or don't, report.  

4.  If the people knew what went on behind the scenes they'd likely lose their minds.

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In his latest interview or should I say latest conspiracy theory, Trump said "The FBI and Department of Justice, I don't know, maybe they're involved". 

Yes, the entire country planned and executed an evil, master plan to steal the election from President Trump because of course, there is no way on earth that HE could possibly lose an election. The nerve!!! 

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On 11/28/2020 at 2:30 PM, Godless said:

Looks like some Trumpers are willing to tank the Georgia Senate run-offs to spite the GOP establishment. Link I thought it had to be a K-Pop hoax or something, but apparently the organization behind it is headed by Roger Stone.

Screenshot_20201128-152649_Chrome.thumb.jpg.df41bd0cc0c7fb54cc533f467f010783.jpg

 

I've heard about this, but ONLY from Liberal sources.  If true, I think it is about the ultimate in foolishness...but I ALSO wonder how valid it is, as I haven't heard anything from more conservative or even neutral sources that say this is any massively large movement in Georgia.

I would NOT put it past some liberal groups to push this idea and hope that people are foolish enough to bite off on it.  ON the otherhand, if this really is a bunch of conservatives in Georgia pushing this, it is an absolute ridiculous idea.

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11 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I've heard about this, but ONLY from Liberal sources.  If true, I think it is about the ultimate in foolishness...but I ALSO wonder how valid it is, as I haven't heard anything from more conservative or even neutral sources that say this is any massively large movement in Georgia.

I don't necessarily think it's a large movement. Just a bunch of fringe Trumpers trying to burn everything down out of spite. But considering that both Senate races were close enough to go to runoffs (and I think the Dems had narrow leads in both races), even a small movement like this is problematic for the GOP.

11 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I would NOT put it past some liberal groups to push this idea and hope that people are foolish enough to bite off on it.  ON the otherhand, if this really is a bunch of conservatives in Georgia pushing this, it is an absolute ridiculous idea.

I had the same doubts, which is why I went to multiple sources to verify. The fact that the right-leaning Times reported on it leads me to believe that it's probably accurate. As for the lack of other balanced media coverage, I think conservative media is desperately trying to bury this story.

 

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Finished watching the entire PA, AZ and MI legislature hearings. 20+ hrs of witnesses and experts testifying. Mind boggling how deep, calculated and pre-planned this all goes. Makes me both angry and sad for the state we find ourselves in as a Nation.

If the Book of Mormon is meant for our day and we are to apply it to our lives, then my mind is drawn to the events surrounding the Gadianton Robbers and their secret combinations. Secret combinations caused the destruction of both the Nephite and Jaredite nations.
 

Quote

Gadianton Robbers

In the Book of Mormon, a band of robbers founded by a wicked Nephite named Gadianton. Their organization was based on secrecy and satanic oaths.

  • Gadianton caused the destruction of the Nephite nation, Hel. 2:12–13.

  • Secret combinations caused the destruction of the Jaredite nation, Ether 8:15–26.

Quote

Secret Combinations

An organization of people bound together by oaths to carry out the evil purposes of the group.

  • The father of lies stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations, 2 Ne. 9:9.

  • Judgments of God did come upon these workers of secret combinations, Alma 37:30.

  • Satan put it into the hearts of the people to form secret oaths and covenants, Hel. 6:21–31.

  • The Lord worketh not in secret combinations, Ether 8:19.

  • Nations that uphold secret combinations shall be destroyed, Ether 8:22–23.

  • They did reject all the words of the prophets, because of their secret society, Ether 11:22.

 

Edited by NeedleinA

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Time is running out for Trump and his legal team to get all this evidence in front of Judges.  They have less than twelve days now before the Electoral College votes.  Over one hundred witnesses have come forward from what I have seen to swear under oath evidence of suspicious activity or voter fraud.  There is so much in so many States I fear they have overloaded the system and they may get away with it.

These Dominion voting machines need to go.  Too many are not secure and they are connected to the Internet.  It is just plain stupid to connect voting machines to the Internet.  They should be on a closed secure network or on no network at all.

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29 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

There is so much in so many States I fear they have overloaded the system and they may get away with it.

I agree. I believe that was part of the strategy.
Make it so overwhelming, so hopeless to fix that it would simply break the American resolve to pursue it to the end.
Many people just want to live their lives in peace and go about their day without ruffling feathers. It may prove that as a Nation we are willing to completely ignore the fraud and turn a complete blind eye to it and live in willful ignorance.

It is hard to fight. It is draining to fight. The question is, is the fight worth it? <-------------------- as soon a we crumble to this stage, then the fraudsters have actually already won.

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57 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Many people just want to live their lives in peace and go about their day without ruffling feathers. It may prove that as a Nation we are willing to completely ignore the fraud and turn a complete blind eye to it and live in willful ignorance.

It is hard to fight. It is draining to fight. The question is, is the fight worth it? <-------------------- as soon a we crumble to this stage, then the fraudsters have actually already won.

What is the point in a vote if they can just change the results on the machine or come up with 200,000 more ballots to stuff the box with so the person you want in can win?  In most States the vote was likely mostly fair.  If the voting system is not cleaned up in the problematic States the cheaters will just come back again to do it in the next election.  I hope the Georgia January election for the Senate seats is fair.

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10 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Finished watching the entire PA, AZ and MI legislature hearings. 20+ hrs of witnesses and experts testifying. Mind boggling how deep, calculated and pre-planned this all goes. Makes me both angry and sad for the state we find ourselves in as a Nation.
 

Trump has presented the evidence that everyone was demanding he show.  (Of course that does not mean the courts will find in his favor but that is another story)

So have the people that demanded he show evidence looked at it?  Covered it in the news?  I mean after all evidence needs to be challenged, vetted, verified.  Were are all the people who were all "You need to Vote!". "You're Vote Matters!" now?

Because seriously if the evidence team Trump holds up... Then the major media in there attempt to convince us that the election is/was secure, have flat out lied to us... And we need the population to be up in arms about this so it can be fixed. Sadly we getting the silence of the guilty and the abettors.

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1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

Trump has presented the evidence that everyone was demanding he show.  (Of course that does not mean the courts will find in his favor but that is another story)

So have the people that demanded he show evidence looked at it?  Covered it in the news?  I mean after all evidence needs to be challenged, vetted, verified.  Were are all the people who were all "You need to Vote!". "You're Vote Matters!" now?

Because seriously if the evidence team Trump holds up... Then the major media in there attempt to convince us that the election is/was secure, have flat out lied to us... And we need the population to be up in arms about this so it can be fixed. Sadly we getting the silence of the guilty and the abettors.

It's a scam.  It's been a scam for decades.  The media is complicit in the scam.  Only half the population even cares about the outcome.  Half of that half is happy with the outcome and doesn't care how it was achieved.  Therefore, 1/4 of the population cares.  How many of them understand it was a scam?  Of those that understand, how many are so mad they're willing to upset their comfy lives and iPhones to change it?  How many are willing to dedicate time and efforts to educating others?  How many belong to Constitutional groups like JBS or Defending Utah to push that education?

Not many.

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And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people; and they are had among the Lamanites. And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi. And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints which shall be shed by them shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avengeth them not. Wherefore, O ye gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shewn unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you — which are built up to get power and gain — and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the eternal God shall fall upon you to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be. Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you, that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or woe be unto it because of the blood of them who have been slain, for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who build it up. For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries. And it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the Devil, who is the father of all lies, even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning, who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning. Wherefore I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things, that evil may be done away and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

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3 hours ago, mirkwood said:

when ye shall see these things come among you, that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation because of this secret combination which shall be among you;

This... right now... is in fact one of those situations. This...is unfolding right before our eyes.
Will we stand up to it?

I'm about 5hrs in the Georgia hearing now.
The election officials, who went first, pled their case with a big ol', "NO way was there election fraud!".
Trump team went second and presented an actual video from the counting center that pretty much was a huge slam dunk contradiction to earlier election officials.

Edited by NeedleinA

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5 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Trump team went second and presented an actual video from the counting center that pretty much was a huge slam dunk contradiction to earlier election officials.

What did the video show?

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10 hours ago, mirkwood said:

What did the video show? 

Of the evidence and witnesses they presented yesterday in Georgia, the actual full video is from time marker 13:50 to 43:46.

The quick version:
1. Absentee and Military ballots are being counted in the Georgia State Farm Arena.
2. Republican poll observers and the media are keep to the far side of the room, meaning they were not even close enough to actually observe what was on the ballots. (separate issue)
3. At night the 'supervisor' tells everyone they are done counting for the night and they will resume counting in the morning.
4. They force the poll observers, the media and the majority of workers out of the room to go home.
5. Once everyone is cleared out, 4-5 people do in fact stay behind and continue to send ballots through the scanners for 2 more hours.
6. They are seen removing suitcases of ballots from under a table to accomplish this.
7. It is estimated that up to 18,000 ballots were processed during this 2hr window alone.

According to the AP, Biden won Georgia by 12,670 votes.
The video was provided/subpoenaed(?) to the Trump team by the State Farm Arena.

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3 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Of the evidence and witnesses they presented yesterday in Georgia, the actual full video is from time marker 13:50 to 43:46.

The quick version:
1. Absentee and Military ballots are being counted in the Georgia State Farm Arena.
2. Republican poll observers and the media are keep to the far side of the room, meaning they were not even close enough to actually observe what was on the ballots. (separate issue)
3. At night the 'supervisor' tells everyone they are done counting for the night and they will resume counting in the morning.
4. They force the poll observers, the media and the majority of workers out of the room to go home.
5. Once everyone is cleared out, 4-5 people do in fact stay behind and continue to send ballots through the scanners for 2 more hours.
6. They are seen removing suitcases of ballots from under a table to accomplish this.
7. It is estimated that up to 18,000 ballots were processed during this 2hr window alone.

According to the AP, Biden won Georgia by 12,670 votes.
The video was provided/subpoenaed(?) to the Trump team by the State Farm Arena.

They did a recount though, and that was overseen by the election officials in Georgia.

Raffensburger and Brian Kemp both have NO reason to push for Democrats or even Anti-Trump voters to win an election, in fact, considering the situation of Kemp, it's in his best interest to have their support.

I am as much as anyone, distrustful of many of the Georgia election results, BUT, with the recount and the self-interest those both have, as well as the Senators, I'm not sure that the Trump's team's argument is going to hold a ton of water with how much they would have WANTED Trump's argument to be true...I expect they were looking for any signs of such a thing.

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Texas...

Quote

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton today filed a lawsuit against Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in the United States Supreme Court. The four states exploited the COVID-19 pandemic to justify ignoring federal and state election laws and unlawfully enacting last-minute changes, thus skewing the results of the 2020 General Election. The battleground states flooded their people with unlawful ballot applications and ballots while ignoring statutory requirements as to how they were received, evaluated and counted.

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