The election


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43 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I have friends in Arizona whose vote have been uncounted, deem invalid, due to the sharpie. They went back to vote again in person and vote wouldn't go through, deemed invalid. I also have friends whose sharpie did count. I remember though growing up, unless things changed, it was always said to use a ballpoint pen as a sharpie may cause a invalid count.

One of my friends is a registered Democrat in Arizona. He has since moved away and lives in our state now, and has for several years.
He received a mail in ballot from Arizona sent to his new address here. He received a mail in ballot from our state as well.

Two ballots. Two votes from two different states.

He called to let them know and they said just to throw away the extra one. Um sure, okay.

Edited by NeedleinA
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22 minutes ago, Godless said:

 He's only losing because more votes are being counted.

If either candidate is loosing to real votes and the process is legally fair, they should lose.
If either candidate is loosing to fraudulent activity then they should fight it to the very, very, very end.
 

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5 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

If either candidate is loosing to real votes and the process is legally fair, they should lose.
If either candidate is loosing to fraudulent activity then they should fight it to the very, very, very end.
 

The problem with fraud claims is that it creates a two-tiered burden of proof. You have to prove that 1) fraud is occurring, and 2) it is happening at levels that could sway the election. I have yet to see compelling evidence that either of those standards have been met, though I'd welcome any insights you may have. What I DO see is segments of the GOP electorate crying foul at the counting of mail-in ballots because the POTUS spent months planting seeds of distrust in their heads. 

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Why do you think they wanted mail in voting?  I believe one side is finding out how many more ballots they need for Biden to win and then they suddenly appear.  In some States 90% or more of ballots that appear while they were counting are for Biden.  Is not that very suspicious?  It is quite easy to do voter fraud on mail in ballots.  They are the most vulnerable of all voting systems.

Edited by Still_Small_Voice
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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

I have friends in Arizona whose vote have been uncounted, deem invalid, due to the sharpie. They went back to vote again in person and vote wouldn't go through, deemed invalid. I also have friends whose sharpie did count. I remember though growing up, unless things changed, it was always said to use a ballpoint pen as a sharpie may cause a invalid count.

Ballot counters and election officials all say that they will count ballots filled in with a Sharpie.    Although they haven't said this, I can see how some of them couldn't be counted if the sharpie bled through to the other side and was illegible (though it seems like this would be very few).

https://www.fox29.com/news/sharpies-can-be-used-on-voting-ballots-in-arizona-officials-say

The big question though is why would anyone use a Sharpie, especially on an absentee or mail in ballot?  Don't all of the ballots say use only blue or black ink pen?   Mine sure did.


 

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3 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

In some States 90% or more of ballots that appear while they were counting are for Biden.  Is not that very suspicious? 

Trump and other GOP members spent months trying to discredit mail-in ballots AND downplaying the pandemic that was making them necessary. So I think it makes sense that a majority of mail-in ballots would be blue.

3 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

It is quite easy to do voter fraud on mail in ballots.  They are the most vulnerable of all voting systems.

How? I keep seeing this claim, but nothing to back it up. Show your work.

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3 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

It is quite easy to do voter fraud on mail in ballots.  

How?   They are mailed to each registered voter and have a name on the envelope.   The ballots themselves are hard to duplicate.

There is no evidence of voter fraud in the election.

The only easy way I could see someone doing votor fraud for mail ins is to go around stealing people's mail and looking for ballots.  

 

Quote

In some States 90% or more of ballots that appear while they were counting are for Biden.

Which states?  What evidence do you have to back this up?

It is already known that a lot of democrats voted by mail because more of them take the pandemic seriously.  

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24 minutes ago, Godless said:

Trump and other GOP members spent months trying to discredit mail-in ballots AND downplaying the pandemic that was making them necessary. So I think it makes sense that a majority of mail-in ballots would be blue.

How? I keep seeing this claim, but nothing to back it up. Show your work.

I posted this video earlier on this subject.  They explain it in minutes 1 to 25 and from minute 45 to the end.

Search for this video on YouTube:  Election 2020 CHAOS: Is There Still Hope for Trump?

Edit: I removed the old weblink because it was not working.

Edited by Still_Small_Voice
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18 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I posted this video earlier on this subject.  They explain it in minutes 1 to 25 and from minute 45 to the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZHXbJREYM&feature=emb_logo

That link takes me to a really long real estate commercial with no option of skip or fast forward. 

Edit:  I was able to skip and am watching.

Edited by Scott
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55 minutes ago, Godless said:

1. I have yet to see compelling evidence that either of those standards have been met
2. POTUS spent months planting seeds of distrust in their heads. 

1. Let's give those (GOP lawyers, etc.) who claim to have evidence time and a platform to share their proof. The fact that MSM may be blocking such evidence doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, in like turn it doesn't mean that it does exist either. Either way, lets give them a fair chance to share their proof first.

2. The real question is were they valid seeds. If they are/were valid, then yes he should have let the voters know.

39 minutes ago, Scott said:

The big question though is why would anyone use a Sharpie, especially on an absentee or mail in ballot?  Don't all of the ballots say use only blue or black ink pen?   Mine sure did.

See @Ironhold's comment:

18 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Meanwhile, in Arizona, the attorney general is responding to reports that people who used permanent markers to mark their ballots as opposed to ink pens had their ballots automatically rejected even when they voted in person and the poll workers gave them the permanent markers.

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1 minute ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

Scott, search for this video on YouTube:  Election 2020 CHAOS: Is There Still Hope for Trump?

It should be the top result in the search.  They talk about election in minutes 1 to 25 and from minute 45 to the end.

Yes I was able to get through and at 2X's speed and reached 12:11 before pausing.

I can tell you that the claims are completely false (and anyone else following the numbers knowns this too).

You said:

Quote

"In some States 90% or more of ballots that appear while they were counting are for Biden"


Maybe it does later, but that's not what the video is saying.  It says that Philadelphia had a 90% turnout, which they claimed couldn't be true.   This claim is false. Niether did 90% of the votes got to Biden.   The percentages are right where they are and were expected.  Philadelphia had a very high turnout, but no where near 90%.   Even so, even not counting mail ins, the lines were incredibly long for in person voting.  A lot of cities, including majority Republicans had an equally high voter turnout.

The video also claimed that some precincts had more votes than registered voters.  This only happened in one precinct in a state that went to Trump.   It happened in Florida.  Even Fox News says it was changes in addresses and boundaries rather than voter fraud that caused the 100%+:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-precinct-voter-turnout

Other claims of pricincts voting more than 100% have been proven false.

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It would be interesting to overlay the states with suspicious presidential numbers, with those same states’ senate and house numbers.  As I understand it, the GOP had a better-than-expected night in the congressional elections; whereas you’d think the manufacturers of phony Biden votes would take the time to mark the test of the Dems down-ballot.  
 

It should also be noted, though, that voter fraud is by its nature (and design?) pretty hard to prove; especially with mail-in ballots where you have no way of knowing where they came from or who filled them out (or, once they are accepted, isolating them from the ballots that were cast in-person).  Your only avenue to prove fraud is to have someone who actually saw the fraud.  That someone is just as likely as not to be dismissed as a partisan hack/sore loser; and even if their story *were* believed—so, what?  The improper ballots are in the same box as the proper ones; how are you going to fish out the fakes?

And it’s also highly dodgy that now, just as in 2018, the GOP went to bed on Election Day thinking it had had a pretty good night; and woke up the next morning to find itself overwhelmed in precinct after precinct by staggering numbers of mail-in ballots that favored the Democrats—and apparently, *always* the Democrats—and often by ratios exceeding four or five to one.  It feels like the dynamic for the past several years has been electoral officials telling conservatives “first tell us how many of you are actually going to vote, and in the morning we’ll tell you how much you lost by.”

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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New York Times:

Quote

Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show...
... The flaws of absentee voting raise questions about the most elementary promises of democracy... Voting by mail is now common enough and problematic enough that election experts say there have been multiple elections in which no one can say with confidence which candidate was the deserved winner.

article continues...

Quote

Fraud Easier Via Mail

Election administrators have a shorthand name for a central weakness of voting by mail. They call it granny farming.

“The problem,” said Murray A. Greenberg, a former county attorney in Miami, “is really with the collection of absentee ballots at the senior citizen centers.” In Florida, people affiliated with political campaigns “help people vote absentee,” he said. “And help is in quotation marks.”

Voters in nursing homes can be subjected to subtle pressure, outright intimidation or fraud. The secrecy of their voting is easily compromised. And their ballots can be intercepted both coming and going.

The problem is not limited to the elderly, of course. Absentee ballots also make it much easier to buy and sell votes. In recent years, courts have invalidated mayoral elections in Illinois and Indiana because of fraudulent absentee ballots.

Article was written in 2012.

Edited by NeedleinA
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9 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Either way, lets give them a fair chance to share their proof first.

If there is proof that one of the candidates cheated then that candidate should be disqualified and charged criminally.
_____________________________________________________________________________

As far as Ironhold's comment on markers by poll workers, I did see that, but I was responding to Annedex's post that some of his friends used them on their mail in ballots.  The instuctions were very clear as to what pens to use.

Election officials say that ballots marked with Shapries will still be counted, but I would never do that by mail regardless.  What if the ballot got wet?

As far as in person voters, they won't be invalidated, but that brings a related question.  Why wouldn't anyone bring your own pen to the voting polls, especially during a pandemic?  

Lets say the Sharpie thing really is a big consiracy.   How would the person handing out the Sharpie know who the person was going to vote for?

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19 minutes ago, Scott said:

1. If there is proof that one of the candidates cheated then that candidate should be disqualified and charged criminally.
2. As far as Ironhold's comment on markers by poll workers, I did see that, but I was responding to Annedex's post
3. Why wouldn't anyone bring your own pen to the voting polls, especially during a pandemic?  
4.  How would the person handing out the Sharpie know who the person was going to vote for?

1. I agree. Neither side should be immune to this.
2. Gotcha, my reading error.
3. Our family didn't bring our own pens. Most people I saw at the actual counter didn't either. They had bins of pens and asked us to use them and take them with us.
4. "If" there was a Sharpie conspiracy... simply place Sharpies at historically Republican voting sites and pens at historically Democrat sites instead.

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12 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It would be interesting to overlay the states with suspicious presidential numbers, with those same states’ senate and house numbers.

It would indeed be very interesting, but you would have to take districts into account.   In a lot of states only the area around the biggest city or cities is blue while the rest of the state is red.  This is true in most blue and red states.

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Trump has a good chance to win and Biden too so let's wait and see. Having said that, it is really sad (in a bad way) to read/hear about "cheating" and "fraud" just because Trump isn't doing well in some states. On Twitter, he is behaving and ranting like a spoiled child right now, just because he isn't getting his way.

I think we all know that if those mail-in ballots were benefiting him, he would praise the entire process as "transparent" and "tremendous" . Nuff said.

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43 minutes ago, Suzie said:

Trump has a good chance to win and Biden too so let's wait and see. Having said that, it is really sad (in a bad way) to read/hear about "cheating" and "fraud" just because Trump isn't doing well in some states. On Twitter, he is behaving and ranting like a spoiled child right now, just because he isn't getting his way.

I think we all know that if those mail-in ballots were benefiting him, he would praise the entire process as "transparent" and "tremendous" . Nuff said.

He certainly has been going on a twitter rampage.  It is interesting to compare the recent tweets from the two.

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20201105_132004.thumb.jpg.224d6203065548ba89fd940e6d6cf4e7.jpg

Edited by Scott
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3 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

New York Times:

article continues...

Election administrators have a shorthand name for a central weakness of voting by mail. They call it granny farming.

“The problem,” said Murray A. Greenberg, a former county attorney in Miami, “is really with the collection of absentee ballots at the senior citizen centers.” In Florida, people affiliated with political campaigns “help people vote absentee,” he said. “And help is in quotation marks.”

Voters in nursing homes can be subjected to subtle pressure, outright intimidation or fraud. The secrecy of their voting is easily compromised. And their ballots can be intercepted both coming and going.

Article was written in 2012.

Yes, that could actually happen.  If someone working at the nursing home were able to request absentee ballots of the nursing home patients and "help" them fill them out.  I wonder what would be the punishment if they got caught?

I actually saw something similar happen, and/or almost happen in 2012.  The Elders Quorum president in our old ward wanted to have a youth/young adult activity where adults would be "help" request ballots for the youth and the youth would be "helped" with voting.  I balked to the bishop about it (I was in the bishopric at the time).  The Bishop told the ECP not to do that, but the ECP instead had an activity where he would "suggest" the youth on how to vote in order to "save the community" and transfer them to the polling location.

I (permantly) lost all respect for the bishop and ECP after that and felt uncomfortable in bishopric meetings until I was released.

I'm so tempted to post their names on the forum along with links to their FB pages, but don't know if that would be appropriate.  So tempting....

Anyway there can be some fraud with absentee ballots.  Republicans and church members really used to be the ones pushing hard for absentee ballots so missionaries and those in the services could vote.

It doesn't seem that easy to cheat with the straight mail in ballots that each registered voter has them mailed to their house.

Edited by Scott
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19 minutes ago, Scott said:

 

It doesn't seem that easy to cheat with the straight mail in ballots that each registered voter has them mailed to their house.

Sure, assuming the ballots are a) only sent to the registered voters, b) only received by the registered voters, c) only filled out according to the wishes of the registered voters, and d) properly returned.

There are risks with absentee ballots, which we’ve accepted for convenience’s sake and because (inter alia) would-be cheaters have no way of knowing which mailboxes to hit, or when to hit them, to swipe an absentee ballot.  But when you’re just mailing ballots to every house on the block . . . Give me the date the ballots are sent out and two hours a day for the next week, and I can elect your small town’s next mayor—and you’ll never have any proof that anything untoward happened at all.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Just a reminder folks, we've all been here before. 

2000 - Bush v. Gore.  We didn't know the results of the election until the 2nd week in December. Then, it was Bush winning, and Al Gore descending on the nation with hoards of lawyers.  There were contested results, and lawsuits, and legislative action to change the rules after the fact, and state supreme court decisions being reversed and remanded by SCOTUS. You could say the entire election was decided by one person in a 5-4 decision.  This year's sharpie was 2000's dimpled chad. 

Yeah, all this happening during a global pandemic is making things weirder, but no really, we've all been here before.

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14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Just a reminder folks, we've all been here before. 

2000 - Bush v. Gore.  We didn't know the results of the election until the 2nd week in December. Then, it was Bush winning, and Al Gore descending on the nation with hoards of lawyers.  There were contested results, and lawsuits, and legislative action to change the rules after the fact, and state supreme court decisions being reversed and remanded by SCOTUS. You could say the entire election was decided by one person in a 5-4 decision.  This year's sharpie was 2000's dimpled chad. 

Yeah, all this happening during a global pandemic is making things weirder, but no really, we've all been here before.

Yeah, but I was on my mission in Brazil in 2000; so I didn’t get to feel really righteous about myself during that election cycle.  😛

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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