DennisTate

LDS teachings on Hades, the state of the dead...

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In my opinion your teachings on the state of the dead are brilliant....... I love chapter forty one of "Gospel Principles."

I personally think that you are correct that the dead can indeed make positive progress even in the grave... even though they may not have accepted the sacrifice of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus during their physical life.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

Chapter 41

The Postmortal Spirit World

 

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“And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

“Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection” (Alma 40:12–14).

The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28–30), but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison (see D&C 138).

 

 

Due to your teachings on the State of the dead it seems to me that you Latter day Saints are in a special position to begin a win - win -win - win positive and friendly conflict with Pentecostals.... who I believe could learn a lot from your teachings on this critical topic.  

 

Pastor Hank Kunneman is obviously sincere... he is obviously gifted....

and his courageous, (but I believe somewhat off) statements on this topic are a good starting point for an outreach to the whole world... .that takes the form of a friendly discussion between Latter day Saints and Pentecostals on this.

 

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Pentecostal theologians would tend to be somewhat offended by this statement by near death experiencer and former Atheist Howard Storm:

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"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart. The anguish that Jesus was suffering at the slaughter of his people was too much for me to bear and I begged that we leave this place. I will never forget this: his anguish at this horror and what it represents. This was one of the low points in human history."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events." (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

 

Because of your greater understanding of the State of The Dead I believe that you Latter day Saints can accept what Howard Storm was shown about what was going on in fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth dimensional space - time during the Holocaust... so.... .you Latter day Saints are in a position to reach out to the Jewish people that in my opinion, Pentecostals could not so easily do!

My wife is a gifted Pentecostal and I've already completed fifteen courses by Dr. Kevin Zadai so that I can better understand the amazing spiritual gifts that she has... .that are actually somewhat like Pastor Hank Kunneman and his wife Brenda!

 

 

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16 hours ago, DennisTate said:

Due to your teachings on the State of the dead it seems to me that you Latter day Saints are in a special position to begin a win - win -win - win positive and friendly conflict with Pentecostals.... who I believe could learn a lot from your teachings on this critical topic.  

This is likely very accurate - but unfortunately most religious conflicts will not be resolved until we are beyond the grave in the spirit world - for the obvious reasons.

 

The Traveler

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17 hours ago, Traveler said:

This is likely very accurate - but unfortunately most religious conflicts will not be resolved until we are beyond the grave in the spirit world - for the obvious reasons.

 

The Traveler

True.....   those conflicts will not be fully resolved until we are beyond the grave but......  a near death experiencer was shown something that fits so perfectly with many statements in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets that I do believe that every positive step that is taken at this time will turn out to be important.  Former Atheist Howard Storm was shown that God wants the world to be like this by around 2185.  The part that I emphasize in bold and red  reminds me of Malachi chapter four.  

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/mal/4?lang=eng

4  Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I acommanded unto him in bHoreb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5  Behold, I will asend you bElijah the prophet cbefore the coming of the dgreat and dreadful eday of the Lord:

6 And he shall aturn the bheart of the cfathers to the dchildren, and the heart of the echildren to their fathers, lest I come and fsmite the gearth with a hcurse.

 

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04

 

 

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The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

 

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

 

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

 

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

 

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.

 

People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.

 

Animals lived with people, in harmony.

 

People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.

 

In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn't have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
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On 11/15/2020 at 2:21 AM, Traveler said:

This is likely very accurate - but unfortunately most religious conflicts will not be resolved until we are beyond the grave in the spirit world - for the obvious reasons.

 

The Traveler

On a Latter day Saint discussion forum that I am on I saw the following questions.....

 

 
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10h  · 
 
Is God Just?
Is it true God is NOT a respecter of persons?
Is Salvation equally available to all men and women who have ever lived?
Does Salvation require Faith in Christ?
Is Faith developed by a hearing the Word of God?
(Romans 10: 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.)
So hearing the word-> is required to develop faith-> which is required for Salvation, which a JUST God makes equally available to everyone.
But is HEARING THE WORD OF GOD equally available to all men and women who have ever lived? Yes, but Not without preaching the Gospel in Spirit Prison. 1 Peter 3:18-20, 4:6

 

 
 
I replied.....
 
My wife is a gifted Pentecostal woman who was even told somehow that I was going to be her husband five months before she met me in person. In order to better understand the pretty amazing spiritual gifts that she has I've taken sixteen online courses by near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai....... I ran into these statements by him yesterday........
 
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"Don't take it personally when bad things happen to you. God can make it better than if it never happened.God can turn things around.
No matter what happens to you, no matter what the enemy wanted, God in the process can make it so that it is actually better than if it had never happened.
This has to do with your faith. In this fallen world we are going to have trouble, we are going to have things go wrong, it is just part of the fallen world. The devil is going to try to make things harder on you. In the process of this, God can make it better. Trust in Him." (Keys to Supernatural Living| Session 2 Study Guide| Kevin L. Zadai )

 

 
 
....
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. "When something happens say, "Lord, you are working it out. I don't know what is going on, but it is all going to work out in my favor. God is favoring me. Angels of the Lord, you are coming in, and whatever it is that the enemy intended, I just want you to stop it, and I just accept the
perfect favor of God. God is with me. God's will is going to be done."
All of a sudden you will sense that there is movement around you because the angels have just engaged because you have given them permission. They will begin to turn these things because God tells the angels to honor people's faith.
Romans 8:28 (NKJV)And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."
(Keys to Supernatural Living| Session 2 Study Guide| Kevin L. Zadai )

 

 

In my opinion chapter forty one of the LDS book Gospel Principles holds a major key to the understanding of these questions that you give   and......... to increased cooperation between Latter day Saints and gifted people like my wife and others within the Pentecostal movement.

 

Because INFINITE TIME stretches ahead of us....... and because our sins and errors from the past can be transformed into assets assisting us to better teach and encourage and inspire others ..... it is absolutely true that truly every event in our lives works out for good but..... it is critical to better understand the nature of Hades and for the human spirit to learn and grow in grace and knowledge even in Hades. If our ideas on heaven and hell are too simplistic...... too black and white..... too heaven vs hell..... too saved vs lost..... we will tend to miss the long term mercy, grace and justice and brilliance of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in all eight billion infinitely precious human lives.

It is over a year ago when I prayed and asked if I was supposed to be baptized LDS or not..... what I was told was that I was supposed to assist Latter day Saints to connect with Jews.... .especially Jews and Jewish groups in Israel.... .I was also supposed to assist Latter day Saints to connect with Pentecostals like my wife...... so I am working on that. I am truly thankful that I can fellowship with Latter day Saints without formally being baptized as a Latter day Saint....... partly because I usually go to church on Sunday wherever my wife feels led to attend.

 

 

Does the word "salvation" have an application to day to day life on earth? Does Messiah Yeshua - Jesus really like the idea of Latter day Saints and Pentecostals and other Christians being free to own land..... or one example?????
 
My apologies to the degree that this may be something of a hijacking of your discussion...... but since the world seems to be facing another 1929 of sorts.... this could be important.......
 
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"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.
 
Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and
 
nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it
 
all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by
 
people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of
 
becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.
 
Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to
 
all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).

 

 

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