Trump 2024?


prisonchaplain
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One of the theories floating around is that President Trump is convincing his base that they are an aggrieved party, and that this election was stolen. He may know he could not have won, but is preparing for 2024. He'll still be younger than Biden and he can run on a Let's Take This Back & Finish the Job! message. Excited? Hopeful? Dreading? Not in a million years?  …

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53 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

One of the theories floating around is that President Trump is convincing his base that they are an aggrieved party, and that this election was stolen. He may know he could not have won, but is preparing for 2024. He'll still be younger than Biden and he can run on a Let's Take This Back & Finish the Job! message. Excited? Hopeful? Dreading? Not in a million years?  …

It won't be Trump.  And it won't be Biden.  It will be Harris vs...??? Probably not Pence either.

People theorize Nikki Haley.

Regardless, if the GOP produces a candidate that is at least above average administratively and has a decent public persona with a decent moral background, they will be a clear victor over Harris.

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2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

The above analysis seems to dismiss the current turmoil about election fraud. Is it a fake controversy, or will the drama simply fade, regardless of validity?

No, it is not a fake controversy.  But how can you prove it?  The Dems had a big boost in "unprovable" fraud votes due to unsolicited mail-in ballots.

Election fraud can only go so far before it becomes "clear and convincing."  Trump had just enough swing voters against him that they were able to get away with enough without losing in court.  And we have three years to pass legislation in swing states and red states that make it more and more difficult to defraud the vote.  They will have that time to pass legislation to prevent unsolicited mail-in ballots.  They can pass legislation nullifying any votes that were counted without bipartisan participation in the counting -- regardless of the reason.

Even if we can't prove it, we know the methods they used.  We can prevent many of the methods and have experts consider new ways that the Dems will most likely try to use next time.

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12 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

One of the theories floating around is that President Trump is convincing his base that they are an aggrieved party, and that this election was stolen. He may know he could not have won, but is preparing for 2024. He'll still be younger than Biden and he can run on a Let's Take This Back & Finish the Job! message. Excited? Hopeful? Dreading? Not in a million years?  …

I would say it's a bad idea. At the end of the day, whatever else happened, Donald Trump lost this election. He lost because despite what he did right from a conservative point of view, which was quite a bit to be sure, he's awful at getting people to like him. He lost a 2 to 3 % swing of Republicans who voted for the Republican representative and senator in their state but voted for Biden. He needed to run against someone as outright hated as Hillary Clinton to stand a chance. The minute he didn't, as we can see, he choked. If he ran again and manged to secure the nomination he would lose again due to his complete lack of charisma especially on Twitter. This is one Republican who hopes he stays away from trying to get the top job so we can win again in 2024.

Edited by Midwest LDS
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I'm wondering if the "Trump 2024" theory is something put out there to appease his hardcore supporters. Neither the current President, nor the VP, will end up the nominee in 2024, imho. If they do, as @Midwest LDS says, they will lose. I hope it does not take that loss for the GOP to shake itself loose. On the other hand, so much good was accomplished in the past 4-years. Reagan will always be my style-and-speech hero, but DJT did get the business done.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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49 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'm wondering if the "Trump 2024" theory is something put out there to appease his hardcore supporters. Neither the current President, nor the VP, will end up the nominee in 2024, imho. If they do, as @Midwest LDS says, they will lose. I hope it does not take that loss for the GOP to shake itself loose. On the other hand, so much good was accomplished in the past 4-years. Reagan will always be my style-and-speech hero, but DJT did get the business done.

In many ways he did. Any conservative can be happy he got through 3 Supreme Court nominees and dozens of other judicial appointments around the country. Plus if we can hold onto the Senate (it'll be tight but I think we will win both Georgia races) Biden won't be able to pass any of his super extreme ideas like court packing. So a bit of a silver lining there.

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Okay. I'm going to hijack my own thread. If I'm Biden, I am super powerful. My instincts are middle-of-the-road. I got the House and 48 Democrat senators. With moderate proposals I can win over 2-6 Republican ones, if not more. I can enact common sense immigration reform, more criminal justice reform, a lime green new deal, and perhaps one or two other bills. Come 2022 the normal midterm trouncing would be neutered (some kind of "stay the steady course" campaign), and 2024 will be a great year for me, if I'm up to it, or some moderate anointed by me (read: not Harris).

I know. I'm too optimistic. Life can't get that good. :::sigh:::

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2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Okay. I'm going to hijack my own thread. If I'm Biden, I am super powerful. My instincts are middle-of-the-road. I got the House and 48 Democrat senators. With moderate proposals I can win over 2-6 Republican ones, if not more. I can enact common sense immigration reform, more criminal justice reform, a lime green new deal, and perhaps one or two other bills. Come 2022 the normal midterm trouncing would be neutered (some kind of "stay the steady course" campaign), and 2024 will be a great year for me, if I'm up to it, or some moderate anointed by me (read: not Harris).

I know. I'm too optimistic. Life can't get that good. :::sigh:::

This course of events, of course, operates under the assumption that Harris won't invoke the 25th amendment.  And who knows?  Maybe Biden will remain the President.  It could happen.  And all the conservatives are just spouting a conspiracy theory about his mental deterioration.

It's possible.

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4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And all the conservatives are just spouting a conspiracy theory about his mental deterioration.

During the campaign there were many conservatives who suspected this. DJT seemed to believe it, thus his jarring behavior during the first debate. Now that Biden is President-Elect, most conservative are praying for his health and wellbeing every day, considering who is waiting in the wings. :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Okay. I'm going to hijack my own thread. If I'm Biden, I am super powerful. My instincts are middle-of-the-road. I got the House and 48 Democrat senators. With moderate proposals I can win over 2-6 Republican ones, if not more. I can enact common sense immigration reform, more criminal justice reform, a lime green new deal, and perhaps one or two other bills. Come 2022 the normal midterm trouncing would be neutered (some kind of "stay the steady course" campaign), and 2024 will be a great year for me, if I'm up to it, or some moderate anointed by me (read: not Harris).

I know. I'm too optimistic. Life can't get that good. :::sigh:::

If the GOP keeps the Senate, McConnell can keep bills he *really* doesn’t like from even coming to the vote.  Biden is certainly a major part of deciding what legislation gets passed, but there’s also a big question mark about whether the GOP post-Trump retains its populist flavor or whether it reverts to a more conventionally ideological brand of conservatism.  That may determine the ultimate fate of Biden proposals regarding—say—criminal justice reform, or fiscal policy.  

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If the GOP keeps the senate job #1 will be to reject the most unpopular and radical Democratic proposals--packing SCOTUS, Green New Deal, and other grand socialism-like schemes. I suspect that Biden is not big on those anyway, thus my theorizing that he could potentially do a lot in his moderate lane. Without a GOP president, the senate won't have a long to-do list, just a do-not one.

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I think it's two parallel things that occurred.

1.  I think with mail in voting it allows for more people to actually vote.  This is why we had record voting numbers this year (Trump had more people vote for him than any other election...except he was beaten by Biden who had even more).  Many people who previously could not vote absentee because they theoretically did not qualify for it, but could not get to the polls were able to vote via mail this election.  The requirements to mail in vote were relaxed in some areas allowing more people to vote when they wanted to rather than trying to make time on a specific day.

2.  However, I think mail in voting allows FAR too much ability for people who are dead or do not exist or moved out of state to vote.  By this, I mean they are not actually the ones voting, but others see these blank ballots mailed to these addresses and use these ballots to vote for people who no longer live there or are anywhere around that location.  I think this happens a LOT more than people think.  I think there are also other activities (marking ballots that are unclear by counters who are party biased...etc) that occur with mail in ballots that allow a LOT of area to tamper with actual election numbers. 

I will be Happy with a Biden win (it's no secret that I am not a fan of Trump) but I think that there was a LOT of cheating this election.  I think stricter rules regarding mail in votes and validation of those votes need to occur.  Many who favor Biden do NOT think about the future.  If cheating occurred, even if it favored their candidate this election, it could always favor the other candidate the next as sides gear up to cheat better and more efficiently.  Instead, we should try to stamp out ways to cheat on elections as it is beneficial for both sides.  My opinion on how to do this is ABSOLUTELY unpopular with Liberals, but I think it would stem a LOT of this cheating.

1.  Require a current State ID to vote.  You don't have to register even, but you have to present a current and valid State ID (that can also be later validated against the state database if there are recounts or questions regarding the election later) that is put on your ballot as well (the drivers license number or state ID number).  State ID's are available, even to those who do not have driver's licenses.  It is NOT hard to get.  You do not have to pass a driver's test to get a state picture ID, but you normally do need some form of verification of address and birth.  This is NOT going to discriminate against those who are minorities or poor as ANYONE can get these types of ID's with minimal effort.  If one wants to vote, getting a State ID or some form of picture ID from the state they live in is less of an effort than voting in most instances.  I fully support the idea of requiring a valid government issued ID to vote.

2.  In conjunction with the above, you MUST vote in person.  I understand the problems in regards to the current pandemic and why the methods for mail in voting were taken and I actually agree (as people cannot seem to actually take safety precautions that worked in other nations that have lower numbers than the US)...BUT...the mail in voting methods we have done seem to open it up to be easily cheated.  Make people vote in person and when coming in they need to present a valid government issued Photo ID.   There won't even be a need to register.  By having a valid state ID that's your registration right there.  You can just go in and vote as long as you present the ID, but you can only vote once, and you need to have it recorded on your ballot (ballots and names would remain anonymous, sure you could look up who it was by their ID number, but I think generally that would not be considered.  You only use the number to verify each individual only got ONE vote and for verification of validity of ID in case of recounts..etc).

Do this, and I think cheating will be decreased tremendously.  As it is, I think there were many cheats (probably on both sides) in this most recent election. 

 

PS: in answer to the question of Trump in 2024...I hope not.  I do not Favor Trump at  ALL.  I actually wonder if he will be facing trials and jail time in the interim between now and 2024.  That doesn't exclude a run by him, but it could definitely hamper any efforts on his part to do so.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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9 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

PS: in answer to the question of Trump in 2024...I hope not.  I do not Favor Trump at  ALL.  I actually wonder if he will be facing trials and jail time in the interim between now and 2024.  That doesn't exclude a run by him, but it could definitely hamper any efforts on his part to do so.

Ding ding ding! The biggest reason that I'm skeptical of a 2024 run is that I think Trump will have a lot of legal and financial headaches to sort out over the next 4 years. 

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13 minutes ago, Godless said:

Ding ding ding! The biggest reason that I'm skeptical of a 2024 run is that I think Trump will have a lot of legal and financial headaches to sort out over the next 4 years. 

Financial? Maybe. Legal? Unless the Democrats want to provoke a never-ending war of administrative retribution, they would do well to let their efforts go no further than the type of inflammatory rhetoric used by Trump.

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Just now, Vort said:

Financial? Maybe. Legal? Unless the Democrats want to provoke a never-ending war of administrative retribution, they would do well to let their efforts go no further than the type of inflammatory rhetoric used by Trump.

I agree, actually. I think that while there are probably very clear paths to indictment and maybe even conviction on multiple charges, it sets a very dangerous political precedent. Trump was right not to pursue criminal action against Hillary (and to be clear, I fully believe that there may have been a path there as well), and it is in the Dem's best interest to extend the same courtesy to Trump.

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On election fraud...I suspect there were some shenanigans. Did they rise to the level of titling the election? Doubtful. America showed itself to be a passionately moderate nation. The Proud Boys and Antifa both had hay days. The end result is that Green New Deal, Socialism, Free college tuition, and SCOTUS-packing were roundly rejected. Political Correctness and Cancel Culture were too. HOWEVER, so was white grievance, nativism, free trade (where USA allows free imports but pays high taxes on exports), and globalist military adventurism. Biden and Romney best represent our grounding. Those of us on the LEFT and RIGHT will continue to tug, but the true resistance will always come from the center.

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4 minutes ago, Godless said:

I agree, actually. I think that while there are probably very clear paths to indictment and maybe even conviction on multiple charges, it sets a very dangerous political precedent. Trump was right not to pursue criminal action against Hillary (and to be clear, I fully believe that there may have been a path there as well), and it is in the Dem's best interest to extend the same courtesy to Trump.

I understand that several former South Korean presidents and political leaders ended up in jail. The nation believes that this shows the maturity and nobility of their system--that the powerful must answer for their crimes. I'm not sure which route is wiser. I suspect that political bluster about "lock 'em up!'" sans actual retribution is the wiser course.  

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

I understand that several former South Korean presidents and political leaders ended up in jail. The nation believes that this shows the maturity and nobility of their system--that the powerful must answer for their crimes. I'm not sure which route is wiser. I suspect that political bluster about "lock 'em up!'" sans actual retribution is the wiser course.  

There's a fine line between holding those in power accountable and weaponizing the justice system for political purposes. ROK may have found that balance, but I don't think we're there yet, ESPECIALLY given the current state of our political landscape.

It's worth noting, however, that while DOJ may not pursue charges against Trump, I believe he's still being investigated by SDNY.

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2 hours ago, Godless said:

It's worth noting, however, that while DOJ may not pursue charges against Trump, I believe he's still being investigated by SDNY.

I was just going to say the same thing.  I saw a story today saying that Biden is telling his staff to lay off of Trump, prosecutions-wise; but Biden can’t control the New York State AG.

Trump may be spending his retirement overseas.

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4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

On election fraud...I suspect there were some shenanigans. Did they rise to the level of titling the election? Doubtful. America showed itself to be a passionately moderate nation. The Proud Boys and Antifa both had hay days. The end result is that Green New Deal, Socialism, Free college tuition, and SCOTUS-packing were roundly rejected. Political Correctness and Cancel Culture were too. HOWEVER, so was white grievance, nativism, free trade (where USA allows free imports but pays high taxes on exports), and globalist military adventurism. Biden and Romney best represent our grounding. Those of us on the LEFT and RIGHT will continue to tug, but the true resistance will always come from the center.

I know for a fact that electron fraud is ramped - 50 years ago I observed such blatant fraud in the Republican Party that I left that party and tried to become a Democrat only to find things much worse there.  The great excuse is that there is never enough fraud to alter the results.  This excuse should offend anyone with an IQ above room temperature.   In a presidential elections there are trillions of dollars at stake as well as the most powerful position in the world at stake - the incentives are too high and the consequence too low - the RIO beats anything - with perhaps the exception of dealing drugs.  The election system begs for corruption.

I believe that campaign and voter corruption is the #1 problem with American politics and that our election process is at the center and connected to just about every problem - not just in Washington DC but every election in every state.  A person running for office - even a county or city office can become a millionaire over night in thousands of different ways - even if they lose the election.

 

The Traveler

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8 hours ago, Traveler said:

I know for a fact that electron fraud is ramped - 50 years ago I observed such blatant fraud in the Republican Party that I left that party and tried to become a Democrat only to find things much worse there.  The great excuse is that there is never enough fraud to alter the results.  This excuse should offend anyone with an IQ above room temperature.   In a presidential elections there are trillions of dollars at stake as well as the most powerful position in the world at stake - the incentives are too high and the consequence too low - the RIO beats anything - with perhaps the exception of dealing drugs.  The election system begs for corruption.

I believe that campaign and voter corruption is the #1 problem with American politics and that our election process is at the center and connected to just about every problem - not just in Washington DC but every election in every state.  A person running for office - even a county or city office can become a millionaire over night in thousands of different ways - even if they lose the election.

 

The Traveler

It's much worse than that, now.  They are actually openly trying to shape public opinion (not even touching on the whole existence of CFR).   Yesterday,  on public record, a sitting US Senator questioned public platform owners about why conservative voices weren't banned from their platforms.  They don't even try to hide it anymore.

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