pam

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I read this forum often.  I've only noticed two people delete their account:  one got very serious over politics and the other was separated from the Church.   I'm on a few forums that are doing very well.  They are pretty focused on what their foundation was.    

For many, other social media platforms are taking over.  Facebook and MeWe both have group options that are probably more popular.  If Third Hour had a group on either, I would probably participate more.

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5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I read this forum often.  I've only noticed two people delete their account:  one got very serious over politics and the other was separated from the Church.   I'm on a few forums that are doing very well.  They are pretty focused on what their foundation was.    

For many, other social media platforms are taking over.  Facebook and MeWe both have group options that are probably more popular.  If Third Hour had a group on either, I would probably participate more.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/mormonhub   It says mormonhub in the URL but it goes to Third Hour Community Group

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17 hours ago, pam said:

Perhaps if I started some of these discussions using questions that went to Ask Gramps that we haven't been able to answer.  Most times it's a time restriction on th team.  

That would actually be very interesting to see! I remember one hot source of conversation was the forum posts of articles put out by TH, but those have long gone (probably because they were often met with back lash from us).

ask Gramps questions would be great

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17 hours ago, Grunt said:

I'm on a few forums that are doing very well.  They are pretty focused on what their foundation was.    

I meander on to MormonDialogue sometime but that community is just too massive. Within 5 minutes of a thread starting the 2nd page has been reached.

 

there was another one I got on once but it had the opposite problem. Not enougj

 

what other forums are there?

Edited by Fether

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

I meander on to MormonDialogue sometime but that community is just too massive. Within 5 minutes of a thread starting the 2nd page has been reached.

 

there was another one I got on once but it had the opposite problem. Not enougj

 

what other forums are there?

I wasn't referring to Latter-day Saint forums.  Most of the forums I'm on that are very active are gun related.

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As one who's essentially left the forum I can comment (as I happen to have joined back in for a day or two for a specific discussion). But since this thread is here during that time, (I won't be around long), I'll comment from my perspective.

I think the reason I left the forum may be the issue at hand.

When the division becomes as great as it has between two factions, those factions struggle for civility. I'll label those factions conservatism and progressivism, but those are relative terms. Still, it should be understood. And I don't mean politically. Politics only interest me as to how they relate to the eternal. These two factions, so divided, struggle to bond in any regard. And, really, in my opinion, they should not bond, because one of them is team Satan and the other is team God. But the result is conflict. So I find myself at an impasse. I have two desires -- two principles -- that are at odds one with another. 1. Civility and unity. 2. The need to stand strong and fight against what I see as the increasing growth of evil and its encroachment upon society.

Keep in mind, the struggle I'm talking about on these two things is not with others. It is with myself. I wish to be civil and united. I also cannot engage with what I consider evil without taking a stand against it.

I do not feel I can or should abandon either of these principles. And yet...how? And so I finally came to a point where the only option for me was to walk away. I can't fight the one fight without losing the other and vice versa. So I retreated instead.

The plain truth is that the divide between good and evil is growing. And that, I believe, is the root of the problem. The growth of evil demands a violent, bloody fight! (I'm not suggesting literal, physical, fighting. I'm just being metaphorical here). It demands it! And yet...who wants to be in bloody, violent fights all the time?

It's depressing, disheartening, discouraging, unpleasant, and just no fun. And yet, part of me feels like I've pulled a Jonah. But still....

Yes...I realize I'm worse than pretty much anyone else in my views in this regard. And therefore it is, frankly, surprising I engaged as long as I did. But it was, for the most part, no fun. And I came to the point where it broke me. And maybe that is a good thing. Maybe I've been wrong all along in my views on fighting the good fight. Or maybe I just suck at it.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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3 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I also cannot engage with what I consider evil without taking a stand against it.

I would suggest that there are many of us who are in the same boat.

Quote

President Spencer W. Kimball taught that the fight against Satan and his forces “is not a little skirmish with a half-willed antagonist, but a battle royal with an enemy so powerful, entrenched, and organized that we are likely to be vanquished if we are not strong, well-trained, and watchful.

Someone, at some point needs to stand against the evils of the world and at other times the torch needs to be passed off to others to provide us some relief.
I understand your reasons for needing to step away, I do. I commend you for your efforts while you were here, it didn't fall entirely on deaf ears. There are many, many good people here committed to taking a stand.

Edited by NeedleinA

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2 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

 

5 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I also cannot engage with what I consider evil without taking a stand against it.

I would suggest that there are many of us who are in the same boat.

Quote

President Spencer W. Kimball taught that the fight against Satan and his forces “is not a little skirmish with a half-willed antagonist, but a battle royal with an enemy so powerful, entrenched, and organized that we are likely to be vanquished if we are not strong, well-trained, and watchful.

Someone, at some point needs to stand against the evils of the world and at other times the torch needs to be passed off to others to provide us some relief.
I understand your reasons for needing to step away, I do. I commend you for your efforts while you were here, it didn't fall entirely on deaf ears. There are many, many good people here committed to taking a stand

 

This concept is probably the worst part about what is driving people from our forum. Some forum members are strict to the old ways and what was taught in the past, some are strict to to the current ways and what is taught today, some are strict to what they perceive to be the future, and some are strict to a middle ground approach where the church is just a guideline. We all fall into one of these and find views from other parties to be distracting from what Christ wants of us all... then we stand up and start bickering.

I have my “line of authority” as I call it. Modern day prophets/publications from the church -> Standard Work / older prophets -> personal revelation -> Opinions from leaders and books written by them -> everything else. Some may flip older prophets to the top due to belief that the church is slipping away while others may believe the standard work as being the end all authority and everything is just built of that (I personally don’t understand the hype behind “canonization” to me the modern day prophet has more teaching authority than any book of scripture. I get that ideology from the talk 14 fundamentals of following the prophet https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet)

In my opinion, it is underlying disagreement like these that cause strife on the forum.

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10 minutes ago, Fether said:

This concept is probably the worst part about what is driving people from our forum. Some forum members are strict to the old ways and what was taught in the past, some are strict to to the current ways and what is taught today, some are strict to what they perceive to be the future, and some are strict to a middle ground approach where the church is just a guideline. We all fall into one of these and find views from other parties to be distracting from what Christ wants of us all... then we stand up and start bickering.

I have my “line of authority” as I call it. Modern day prophets/publications from the church -> Standard Work / older prophets -> personal revelation -> Opinions from leaders and books written by them -> everything else. Some may flip older prophets to the top due to belief that the church is slipping away while others may believe the standard work as being the end all authority and everything is just built of that (I personally don’t understand the hype behind “canonization” to me the modern day prophet has more teaching authority than any book of scripture. I get that ideology from the talk 14 fundamentals of following the prophet https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet)

In my opinion, it is underlying disagreement like these that cause strife on the forum.

I just gave a talk about that talk.   

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2 hours ago, Fether said:

We all fall into one of these and find views from other parties to be distracting from what Christ wants of us all... then we stand up and start bickering.
I have my “line of authority” as I call it.
In my opinion, it is underlying disagreement like these that cause strife on the forum.

So, is the take away to solving forum harmony and member retention:
Step 1. Don't disagree (causes strife?)
Step 2. Don't take a stand
Step 3. Don't bicker. (I'm on board with and can do better in this dept.)

What do we do when members view "standing up" & "bickering" as synonymous?
What do we do if members simply view differing opinions as an attack?
What if a differing opinion is shared by the perceived majority, should they be expected to change their position for the harmonious benefit of the minority? or vice versa?
Is this really a "disagreement/taking a stand" issue OR does this just boil down to a "I don't like the way you talked to me" issue?

Edited by NeedleinA

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6 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

So, is the take away to solving forum harmony and member retention:
Step 1. Don't disagree (causes strife?)
Step 2. Don't take a stand
Step 3. Don't bicker. (I'm on board with and can do better in this dept.)

What do we do when members view "standing up" & "bickering" as synonymous?
What do we do if members simply view differing opinions as an attack?
What if a differing opinion is shared by the perceived majority, should they be expected to change their position for the harmonious benefit of the minority? or vice versa?
Is this really a "disagreement/taking a stand" issue OR does this just boil down to a "I don't like the way you talked to me" issue?

 Not sure what the solution is. I just notice that many arguments revolve around whether Brigham Young, Ezra Taft Benson, current publication from the church, a personal interpretation of scripture,  or some worldly approach to an issue is the true Christlike approach on a specific topic.

Edited by Fether

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

 Not sure what the solution is. I just notice that many arguments revolve around whether Brigham Young, Ezra Taft Benson, current publication from the church, a personal interpretation of scripture,  or some worldly approach to an issue is the true Christlike approach on a specific topic.

That's the problem.  All of those answers are true and the 14 fundamentals pretty much lays out the order.  If your "personal interpretation" trumps a prophet, then there is a problem.   I'll stand firm in what little I do know.  When challenged by people who aren't members of Christ's Church or who have stopped following Christ's chosen leaders, as we've seen happen in recent months, I don't know what else to do.  

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I joined this forum eleven years ago. I left for a long period of time because the toxicity  here became unbearable. There were people insulting others to make a point, being very unkind and condescending (and to an extend, one can argue that it continues to happen in the political discussion board if you don't agree with the status quo). Back then, I didn't see posters being warned when displaying this kind of uncivil behavior and it became a very toxic and negative environment so many people left. 

Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with politics or Church doctrine. I think it has to do with personality, understanding and self-control. Once we fully understand the art of debating, there is no need to become hostile, cruel or defensive but instead we will be working on offering stronger arguments in a civil manner making always the focus the message rather than the messenger. And most importantly, be humble enough to accept 'touché' moments throughout our discussions. 

This is why throughout the years, I enjoyed debating with JAG in this forum.  Both of us think alike in quite a few things and yet very different in other aspects, including some aspects of Church history. But when I engage him in a debate, he has always been so respectful and yet firm in his views. I make fun of him for being overly conservative and he makes fun of my "progressive" ways. And this is how I believe, brothers and sisters in the Gospel, should be towards one another. Now, I am not putting myself as an example of anything...the good Lord knows I'm not... but I just wanted to illustrate the point that in my view, it isn't really about politics or religion. It is about who we are and trying to remember that even behind a keyboard, we are all still brothers and sisters. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Suzie said:

1. I left for a long period of time because the toxicity  here became unbearable... Back then, 
2. we will be working on offering stronger arguments in a civil manner making always the focus the message rather than the messenger.
3. It is about who we are and trying to remember that even behind a keyboard, we are all still brothers and sisters.  

1. Curious, approximately how long ago was "back then"? Inquiring to see if the concerns that triggered recent events around here are unique to nowadays or if they are simply issues that  rear their head in periodic waves do to the nature of being a discussion board?
2. Good point.
3. Good point also.

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58 minutes ago, Suzie said:

It is about who we are and trying to remember that even behind a keyboard, we are all still brothers and sisters. 

 I've observed many people (myself included) who tend to treat total strangers better than their own siblings.

Perhaps we might consider that familiarity breeds contempt.

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I really just come here to get a feel for how the members of the church view the happenings of life and the world. 
 

Many of these topics aren’t broached in real life discussions due to their potential volatility, so it is helpful for me to see how other members view these things. 
 

That being said, I simply don’t have the energy to back-and-forth about topics in which I clearly have the better informed opinion. 😜 

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2 hours ago, Grunt said:

That's the problem.  All of those answers are true and the 14 fundamentals pretty much lays out the order.  If your "personal interpretation" trumps a prophet, then there is a problem.   I'll stand firm in what little I do know.  When challenged by people who aren't members of Christ's Church or who have stopped following Christ's chosen leaders, as we've seen happen in recent months, I don't know what else to do.  

And you are part of the “problem” the forum is facing. I’m just like you and so is everyone else I’m who disagrees with the order of authority. 
 

I don’t believe your way of thinking is wrong, we are very much alike in that sense. But when there is a forum full of people who see the gospel differently and we are talking about salvation and damnation... it’s hard to not get passionate.

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2 minutes ago, Fether said:

And you are part of the “problem” the forum is facing. I’m just like you and so is everyone else I’m who disagrees with the order of authority. 
 

I don’t believe your way of thinking is wrong, we are very much alike in that sense. But when there is a forum full of people who see the gospel differently and we are talking about salvation and damnation... it’s hard to not get passionate.

I absolutely agree.  However, as long as my beliefs are aligned with current teachings I'm personally comfortable being part of your perceived problem.  

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9 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I absolutely agree.  However, as long as my beliefs are aligned with current teachings I'm personally comfortable being part of your perceived problem.  

Me too, and I don’t think you should change, nor anyone that thinks what they are saying is saving the souls of others. We should all be standing up for the truth and admonishing one another 

Mosiah 26:39

And they did admonish their brethren; and they were also admonished, every one by the word of God, according to his sins, or to the sins which he had committed, being commanded of God to pray without ceasing, and to give thanks in all things.

Maybe we can soften our tone on how we admonish one another and maybe we can realize that we are responsible for the tone in which we read another’s comment.

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4 minutes ago, Fether said:

 

Maybe we can soften our tone on how we admonish one another and maybe we can realize that we are responsible for the tone in which we read another’s comment.


I think this is the meat of the issue.  I would hope people would call out my tone, either publicly or privately, if inappropriate.    That would either provide me with the opportunity to clarify or repent.  

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1 minute ago, Grunt said:

Also, I have a talk a few weeks ago in Sacrament explaining why I do what I do. 

If you have a written copy of that, I would actually love to read it. Would you be comfortable sending me a copy? You said you mentioned line of authority in it??

Edited by Fether

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Just now, Fether said:

If you have a written copy of that, I would actually love to read it. Would you be comfortable sending me a copy? You said you mentioned line of authority in it??

Sure.  PM me how you would like to receive it.   It was a really crappy talk, though. 

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When it comes to rebuking we need to remember the direction and instruction the Lord has given us in D&C 121..

Verse 43 is the detailed instructions

Quote

Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

How many times do we truly meet the first requirement??  From my own experience I have to say probably not nearly as much as I do it... Then there is the second follow up requirement... How often do we do that?  Again from my own experience not nearly as much as I should.   Thus for me the standard the Lord set for a righteous rebuke... well I find myself coming up short more often then not... to meet the standard the Lord has set.

 

As for mods not doing anything... We are human... we make mistakes... we have our own biases and blindness-es.  That is why we ask people to report posts/posters that they think are breaking the rules and tell us why.  It is the easiest and quickest way to have all the mods become aware of something (including issues with a moderator)  As for the mods doing something... Sometimes nothing is the action, many times we work behind the scenes and you never know what we did, other times are actions are clear.  But simple fact is that someone is going to think the moderators made the wrong choice... Either we do not act enough... or we acted too much..   There is no win for us in these situations. Just doing what we think is the best for the forums as a whole.  

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