CommanderSouth

“God’s” Plan

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Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 
 

This of course simply pushes the question one level up. Who created this “plan” and why. I have struggled with this as long as I can remember. The answer the church provides is more palatable than “God did It” but it still leaves so many questions. 

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12 hours ago, CommanderSouth said:

Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 
 

This of course simply pushes the question one level up. Who created this “plan” and why. I have struggled with this as long as I can remember. The answer the church provides is more palatable than “God did It” but it still leaves so many questions. 

I think you make a good point in that what we are experiencing is the natural, perhaps even self-existing progression of an "intelligence." So in that general sense we are simply following the same course as all who have come before, even our Father in Heaven. But as this course could not proceed without the devine planning of our Heavenly Parents on our behalf it does make it their plan for us even though they may not have been the originator of that plan. Though it could be argued that because each of us is unique, while the overall plan is the same for us all, all of the details that help us individually do in fact make for a unique plan for each of us. As to your question of where did it all begin I think you could add it to the list of timeless questions found in the hymn If You Could Hie To Kolob.

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I suspect that the law of entropy applies to social constructs as well, meaning that without some sort of external influence, things will gradually decay and fall apart. When applied to the specific "social construct" of the plan of salvation, that outside influence which prevents it from falling apart could be God, and as He is the one that is keeping it going, it could be described as His plan. 

Another possibility: How much difference is there really, between certain types of car models produced by different manufacturers? Some of them look almost identical, but you can bet that there are seperate sets of plans behind each model and one is definetely a Honda while the other is a Toyota. 

As to the idea of this current version of the plan of salvation (version 3Bii) as being something that "just has to be done" I think time and the universe are big enough to allow for the possibility or perhaps even the probability of multiple different outcomes and multiple ways of achieving each outcome. The plan we are operating under is aimed at achieving one particular outcome under one particular path.

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20 hours ago, laronius said:

As to your question of where did it all begin I think you could add it to the list of timeless questions found in the hymn If You Could Hie To Kolob.

The answer might be evolution. We have perhaps arrived at the version of the plan that we have because over time, through trial and error, this version was found to be more effective than all of the other plans that were previously in existence, but which have now become extinct because they weren't sufficiently successful. 

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17 hours ago, CommanderSouth said:

Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 
 

This of course simply pushes the question one level up. Who created this “plan” and why. I have struggled with this as long as I can remember. The answer the church provides is more palatable than “God did It” but it still leaves so many questions. 

I would approach this question from a strictly engineering standpoint from which I have some experience.  If we look at the engineering challenge of automating a manufacturing process - I believe it is quite similar to what has happened in the eternities in developing the plan of salvation.   We begin by gathering together a council of "experts" and determining what is referred to as "The Requirements Document".  The Requirements Document breaks down what is needed and required to accomplish the most efficient and desired results.   This may sound quite simple but it is the most important and critical step in the process.  If we are manufacturing cars - this document will define how many cars per hour (top, mean and minimal production) as well as long term outputs (yearly).  The document will also define the production quantities, qualities and tolerances as well as an initial budget to insure financial feasibility, profitability and sustainability.  

Once the requirements are determined we move toward the design planning stage.  The design document is a step by step process to accomplish the requirements.  This is a most interesting process.  Many engineers as well as customizers start to add or leave out "things" that will not accomplish the specified requirements (in essence - something else).  Often such design changes are based in ego and power of an individual or individuals.   BTW - this will always lead to the failure of the project (at one level or another).   And so another document is created called the Design document.  Usually this document is more verbose than the requirements document.  Sadly or strangely this document is considered to be more important than the requirements document - but in all the planning and design - it is the least critical.

The final plan document is what is called the Testing Document or Test Scripts.  This document looks primarily at the requirement document and itemizes the testing necessary to insure that all the requirements are preciously and exactly  met.  This document us usually comprised of volumes.  It gives exact step by step action and step by step expected results.  Each step is signed off and dated by a specific tester that also logs exact items, times individuals and versions of hardware and software  utilized in the test and finely the results - including pass or fail to meet the requirements.  If there is an non-pass or failure; a determination is made for corrections or if changes will be addressed and made.

If we think on this we can find "types and shadows" of thing revealed concerning the counsels of the pre-existence where the foundations of our salvation and eternal exaltation were laid.  For example we can understand that some took responsibilities and exercised faith in establishing necessary principles while other went along and how Lucifer would rebel to take advantages for himself at the expense of others.  We can also see how our mortal experience was planned out in great detail to insure we are "tested in all things" specific to our individual needs to prepare us for that which we intended for ourselves and those with which we would covenant for our intended  eternity.

 

The Traveler

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I follow the line of thought; however, an original plan can still be the plan of the current leader. God is still the author of our plan. No different than Christ speaking as though he were the Father. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the same thing. Is it really the gospel of Jesus Christ or is it the gospel of the Father given through Christ? We can come up with our best conclusions, best hypothesis, etc... but in the end it doesn't really matter. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is God's plan. All Gods (so to speak) are "One".

Assumption speaking, if God has a father I really doubt his father is in the background saying, "Well, actually, that is my plan son." When we reach a certain level, the plan is the plan. The one authoring the plan at that time is the author of the plan. People (Gods) before probably aren't keeping tabs on who actually authored it (the first), it is the plan of God(s), so to speak.

Edited by Anddenex

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On 12/4/2020 at 6:44 PM, CommanderSouth said:

Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 
 

This of course simply pushes the question one level up. Who created this “plan” and why. I have struggled with this as long as I can remember. The answer the church provides is more palatable than “God did It” but it still leaves so many questions. 

Given that "truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come," the answer is still "God," who in a very significant sense is Heavenly Father and everyone He was, is, and is to come to be one with.

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On 12/4/2020 at 3:44 PM, CommanderSouth said:

Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 

A perfect plan does have the resemblance of being the only way it could be done. But God's plan is not like gravity. Gravity is a law that will always respond in the same way every time. God's plan didn't always exist. Gravity did. The plan from getting from point A, a state of intelligence, to point B, a state of neverending life has a lot of obstacles in the way. God knew what the objective was, but getting there without cheating (as some of our critics seem to be okay with) takes considerable planning.

For example, I find it fascinating that the best way to preserve the Biblical witness through time was to keep it out of the hands of men and that's exactly what God did with the Book of Mormon. It laid dormant, untouched by man, buried by a prophet, uncovered by a prophet. If the world accepted it as authentic, it would be the most valuable source material of any ancient records that we have. That's just one piece of a perfect plan and it was God that set it to preserve his work, not just something that had to be done. Of course, it had to be done, but that doesn't make it any less God's plan.

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On 12/4/2020 at 6:44 PM, CommanderSouth said:

Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 
 

This of course simply pushes the question one level up. Who created this “plan” and why. I have struggled with this as long as I can remember. The answer the church provides is more palatable than “God did It” but it still leaves so many questions. 

It is indeed God’s plan because abstract principles, which in reality cannot exist outside of the mind of a conscious, self-aware intelligence, are unable to plan or execute anything. Only intelligent beings can make plans and bring those plans to fruition. Mere abstract principles are powerless to do anything because they cannot think nor act.

Edited by Jersey Boy

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