Fether Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, Traveler said: You really do not see the logical failure in what you just said? The Traveler Please enlighten me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Fether said: Please enlighten me Here is a relevant demonstration to achieve enlightenment. NeuroTypical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Fether said: Please enlighten me The scientific principles in the vast majority of modern science fiction is no closer to current scientific principles than medieval alchemy. If someone seeks to master the sciences - I suggest that they study their class materials from the science department and leave the science of science fiction to the liberal arts and creative writing department of the university (where science fiction is, for the most part - is created. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted December 22, 2020 Report Share Posted December 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Traveler said: The scientific principles in the vast majority of modern science fiction is no closer to current scientific principles than medieval alchemy. If someone seeks to master the sciences - I suggest that they study their class materials from the science department and leave the science of science fiction to the liberal arts and creative writing department of the university (where science fiction is, for the most part - is created. The Traveler I think we are talking about different things. you said “that scoff at much in religion for being unrealistic and unrelated to reality are so attracted to modern sci-fi” I was intending to point out that the reason they are likely ok with sci-fi is because it isn’t trying to claim reality. Religion on the other hand is claiming reality for something equally as crazy as sci-fi. That is where they have the issue. One is a story, the other is reality. Maybe the misunderstanding was in my part Traveler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsonJones Posted December 22, 2020 Report Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Fether said: I think we are talking about different things. you said “that scoff at much in religion for being unrealistic and unrelated to reality are so attracted to modern sci-fi” I was intending to point out that the reason they are likely ok with sci-fi is because it isn’t trying to claim reality. Religion on the other hand is claiming reality for something equally as crazy as sci-fi. That is where they have the issue. One is a story, the other is reality. Maybe the misunderstanding was in my part A guess on my part.... There used to be two different genres. One was based on science and normally had ideas of where that science might lead in the future or how that science might be used. Items in this genre originated ideas such as Frankenstein (sometimes considered one of the first Science Fiction novels...though, ironically, many consider it horror instead) or Twenty Thousand leagues under the Sea. It could be written off in the future as it was based on ideas of science at the time it was written, but normally it had predictive ideas which at times came to pass (submarines for example). On the otherhand there was an field which was more like fantasy. Everyone knew it wasn't really science fiction, but more based on the fantastical. A common name for it at times was Space Opera. It had no basis in science generally. Flash Gordon is a good example of this type of fiction...and later...Star Wars. Today, these two genres seem to be blended together. It doesn't matter whether it has a basis on science, or if it is just purely fantasy, if it happens in space or set in the future, no matter how fantastical and unrealistically possible, it is still grouped into Science Fiction. My guess (regarding @Traveler thoughts) is how much some of those who (at times atheists or agnostics I suppose) ascribe to science in scoffing at Religion are also deep into what used to be known as Space Fantasy/Space Opera where there is nothing really scientific about it, but is more fantasy than anything else. I have noticed that many that read the types of books found in Science Fiction today are also in many instances greatly into Fantasy Novels and Books as well. In that light, I'd say for many they are joined at the hip as genres, and you find it that way at Bookstores today also, where you have a Fantasy and Science Fiction section instead of one section being Fantasy (and that may also include the Space Fantasy items) and one with a more hard Science bent or Science Fiction. PS: I have noticed that there seems a great preponderance in Utah of those who read the Science Fiction/Fantasy of today. I'd say there is a FAR higher percentage of Sci-Fi/Fantasy readers in the Utah areas than there are in the rest of the US, and absolutely more than there are in the rest of the World. I know my daughter (currently lives in Orem) there is a massive Fantasy and Science Fiction Fan as are her kids and the rest of her family. They live in Utah in the middle of the Sci-Fi/Fantasy communities around there. Great people (though that may be a little biased coming from me). Edited December 22, 2020 by JohnsonJones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 22, 2020 Report Share Posted December 22, 2020 I will admit to an over abundance of prejudice concerning scifi. Mostly because all the advanced systems I have personally been involved with are quite different than what is portrayed. Even in the case of current scientific advances that are covered in the press and news outlets there is an irrational input of bias that at times can even make the attempt at explanation irrelevant. I will give an example from the advances in artificial intelligence. There are two methods of approach in artificial intelligence in relationship to complex systems. One I will call the exalted G-d theory. This is the idea that there is a super intelligent centralized intelligence that oversees and controls all functions. This is by far the most popular or general concept - especially in science fiction and I may add in most religious thinking. It is a pyramid concept with the most powerful intelligence at the top and all else is subject or made subject to that single intelligence. But there is another concept that is called the hive mind but even in the description of hive mind - most cannot envision the reality and still see the hive mind as a pyramid concept with the most powerful intelligence at the top controlling all the other minds in the collective. The idea of distributed intelligence is not very well understood at all. I have often pondered this notion because it is greatly imbedded in the core concepts of a free and liberated society. In the world of industrial robotics most think that the only workable system is the pyramid concept with a powerful intelligence at the top controlling everything. The reality is that "distributed" intelligence is by far the most effective and efficient method. This is done by pushing all decisions down or distributing the decisions to the lowest possible point where the work or action is taking place. There are other consideration that I could point out but I am not sure how to present the concept without examples - and if I was to do so this little post would expand into many volumes. I make this little example because I have never seen the concept of distributed intelligence - ever - represented in science fiction or any new outlet attempting to describe the advances in artificial intelligence based on distributed processing. But then this goes beyond science into the concepts of G-d and religion - especially into concepts of agency, liberty and freedom as applied to divine laws, ordinances and covenants. It is impossible to explain this concept - especially to non-lds that often post on our forum. Most are fearful (including Steve Hawkins) of artificial intelligence reaching a stage called singularity. This is because they can only envision the pyramid concept of a superintelligence at the top controlling everything else. Perhaps the best example of the hive mind that I can make is an individual human being and the operation of the immune system within a healthy person. As smart as anyone is - they are unlikely to be aware of the operations of their very advance and intelligence immune system - keeping them healthy and free from constant infections attempting to kill then every moment of every day. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted December 22, 2020 Report Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Traveler said: Perhaps the best example of the hive mind that I can make is an individual human being and the operation of the immune system within a healthy person. As smart as anyone is - they are unlikely to be aware of the operations of their very advance and intelligence immune system - keeping them healthy and free from constant infections attempting to kill then every moment of every day. You call it Hive mind. That should call forth the example for which it is named after. Aka Bees. Bee colonies are Hive Minds. While each individual Bee work within their limited information/skillset/role with no one in charge, yet choices are made and collective action is taken by the Hive. The closest and most recent Sci Fi depiction of a Hive Mind that I can think of is the Borg in Star Trek the Next Generation Series. It is interesting for the Movies they felt the need to add a Queen controller because they felt the audience needed the "Villain" to have a face, and the Borg really stopped being a Hive Mind and became a super intelligence at that point. That they felt the audience needed that change is a very human limit, not a limit on Hive Minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsonJones Posted December 22, 2020 Report Share Posted December 22, 2020 Andromeda Strain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Nephite Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jedi_Nephite said: I have wondered if the popular interpretation of is a little misleading. Generally the popular interpretation is interpreted that the kingdom of heaven is full of beings that behave like little children. I am inclined to think that Jesus was making reference to himself and other adults that nurture and lovingly care for little children - that heaven is full of beings that love and care for little children. The Traveler Edited January 4, 2021 by Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Nephite Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Traveler said: I have wondered if the popular interpretation of is a little misleading. Generally the popular interpretation is interpreted that the kingdom of heaven is full of beings that behave like little children. I am inclined to think that Jesus was making reference to himself and other adults that nurture and lovingly care for little children - that heaven is full of beings that love and care for little children. The Traveler Actually, I think both interpretations are correct. Jesus appreciated the innocence of little children and taught that we should be like them. However, not sure how that would apply to Grogu as he is over 50 years old, thus making him at the age of accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 If you are up for a little re-imagined version of the Mandalorian Theme song, here you go. Starts out a little slow to build up the core song. Given that this was all done from scratch by a 16 year old that I know... not bad at all! NeuroTypical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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