Traveler

Worst and Best drivers (by State) in the USA

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For fun here is an article on drivers.  I was most surprised that Utah has the best overall drivers.  Here is the link:

https://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/which-states-have-the-worst-drivers/#methodology

Scroll down to the overall table.

 

The Traveler

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10 hours ago, Traveler said:

For fun here is an article on drivers.  I was most surprised that Utah has the best overall drivers.  Here is the link:

https://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/which-states-have-the-worst-drivers/#methodology

Scroll down to the overall table.

 

The Traveler

I've driven in Utah...I'm surprised that Utah is not lower due to one of the ratings they use...speeding.

I drove on the Highway between Salt Lake and Provo Utah...I don't think a single driver was following the speed limit.  I was right at the speed limit and was like the tortoise to the Hare compared to everyone else...I was the slowest thing on that Highway!

Driving in Salt Lake City's Rush Hour was bad...it was shorter than Los Angeles but the drivers in Utah have no care in the world.  It rained while I was there (in Utah) and they had car crashes...IN A LIGHT RAINFALL!!!  They can't drive in rain (though I suppose they can in snow).  They are some of the rudest drivers I've driven around...though they WERE actually more polite than those I found in Idaho (which were ruder still!) and Colorado.

Los Angeles and San Francisco may have a longer rush hour, but the people at least seemed a LOT MORE considerate while driving than in Utah and Idaho (or, to clarify, at least the areas that I drove through in Utah and Idaho.  A Caveat though is that the driving was a LOT better and respectful once you hit North Salt Lake, past exit 306 going North is like night and day.  The drivers become much more respectful and a LOT more likely to follow the speed limit...it's south of there that they seem insane drivers).

Edited by JohnsonJones

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I've driven in Utah...I'm surprised that Utah is not lower due to one of the ratings they use...speeding.

I drove on the Highway between Salt Lake and Provo Utah...I don't think a single driver was following the speed limit.  I was right at the speed limit and was like the tortoise to the Hare compared to everyone else...I was the slowest thing on that Highway!

Driving in Salt Lake City's Rush Hour was bad...it was shorter than Los Angeles but the drivers in Utah have no care in the world.  It rained while I was there (in Utah) and they had car crashes...IN A LIGHT RAINFALL!!!  They can't drive in rain (though I suppose they can in snow).  They are some of the rudest drivers I've driven around...though they WERE actually more polite than those I found in Idaho (which were ruder still!) and Colorado.

Los Angeles and San Francisco may have a longer rush hour, but the people at least seemed a LOT MORE considerate while driving than in Utah and Idaho (or, to clarify, at least the areas that I drove through in Utah and Idaho.  A Caveat though is that the driving was a LOT better and respectful once you hit North Salt Lake, past exit 306 going North is like night and day.  The drivers become much more respectful and a LOT more likely to follow the speed limit...it's south of there that they seem insane drivers).

As someone who has lived in Utah most my life... I can’t remember the last time I drove the speed limit. At minimum I’m 5mph over, more often I ride the 10mph over line. 

0 tickets 0 wrecks

Edited by Fether

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4 hours ago, Fether said:

As someone who has lived in Utah most my life... I can’t remember the last time I drove the speed limit. At minimum I’m 5mph over, more often I ride the 10mph over line. 

0 tickets 0 wrecks

Which puzzles the world out of me.

I always thought that as members we are taught to respect and follow the laws of our respective lands and nations.  If we are willing to bend or fabricate around a law a little, that would apply to the way we adhere to many of the other laws, inclusive of the commandments in our lives as well. 

But, in some areas of the US where the Church dominates, it seems that members are more than willing to excuse breaking the law just a little bit on purpose, to get somewhere faster, or to get do other things.  It's an idea that I do not quite understand of WHY it is acceptable, but perhaps others can explain to me.

On the otherhand, people would complain that I normally am a slower driver.  In Utah, there is an IMMENSE peer pressure simply from the fact that you are the slowest thing on the road if you drive the speed limit, and people will get hostile and angry at you (honking, tailgating, etc) if you drive anything slower.  I tend to drive around 60-65 regardless if the speed limit is higher in the state I am in, as that seems quite fast enough on the highway.  It also tends to save gas in some vehicles.  I do not see the need to drive faster than the speed limit except in extreme cases (ambulance driving someone to the hospital for example, police officer escorting a pregnant woman about to give birth...etc).  I'll try to drive the speed limit on the roads that are not the highway, but generally am around 1 mile under it unless in a vehicle that allows me (some modern ones do) to be exactly on the speed limit.

I can understand someone doing it by mistake, but how they do it in Church dominated areas regarding the speed limit is a curiosity that I've never had anyone actually explain (at least that I remember at the moment, they may have, but I don't recall it at this time) why they do it.  Perhaps you can explain why you drive over the speed limit normally.

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One of the most interesting thought experiments around letter/spirit of the law for me was to wonder how the sinless Savior of the world would treat traffic laws. These laws do not really have moral significance, so there aren't really moral ramifications to obedience/disobedience. How does a perfect, sinless person treat things like speed limits?

The letter of the law is kind of obvious. Never exceed the posted speed limit, and pay careful attention to the signs so he/she knows what the speed limit is.

The spirit of the law is to move people and goods around the community safely and efficiently. I've heard some justify their speeding by saying that it is more dangerous to be traveling at a speed significantly slower than the rest of traffic. On a moderately busy freeway where everyone is going 10 over, is it ultimately safer and more efficient to blend into traffic even though traffic is going 10 over? Or is strict obedience the way to go and the other drivers will just have to deal with it?

Spirit of the law or letter of the law? Vague, general obedience or strict, exact obedience? I really don't know.

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I must admit I was surprised to see Utah has the nation's safest drivers.  Growing up in Utah, I thought that the worst drivers in Utah were transplants from California - especially on snow.  We call it a California stop when someone slows down (without stopping at stop sign). 

Note that the information comes mostly from insurance companies.  Insurance companies are experts at determining what is safe driving - their lively hood depends on it.  My father was an insurance agent.  Much against his advice, I purchased a sports car during my college years.  My father advised me that there is a reason different cars cost more to insure.  For example, he once showed me an article that the average time for a brand new Corvette from the time it is driven off the lot before it has its first insurance claim is 8 minutes.  It has been many years and my memory may be off a little but I understand that is why insurance for a new Corvette is expensive.

I also learned that the color of the car makes a difference (red cars get more tickets).  And those that have their cars modified, are a greater risk.  If you have an accident you are more likely to have another one in the next year - this is why insurance companies will up your rates or cancel your policy.  If you purchase a new or different car - you are more likely to have an accident in the next 6 months.  Those that keep and maintain their car for 10 years or more are less likely to have an accident than those that purchase a new or different car every couple or years.  It is also interesting to me that if someone changes their insurance company - they are more likely to have an accident.

As a youth my father had me read every article he could find about driving risks.  For example, 80% or highway accidents happen during lane changes - so someone that changes lanes (weaving in traffic) is more likely to have an accident.  I believe that regardless of how good a driver someone thinks they are - if they are not primarily a defensive driver - they are not as good as they think.  And I personally do not think that aggressive driving is compatible with defensive driving.   

For my last thought - I believe that if someone would commute to work for a week by bicycle - it would change their driving.  I believe that the evolutionary law of survival of the fittest (not the seemingly best) applies to driving - but is greatly increased if you are on a bicycle.

 

The Traveler

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26 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Note that the information comes mostly from insurance companies.

I also noted that the rankings seemed to be based on data for fatal accidents. So they looked at accidents where someone died, then looked at how frequently the specified factors (speed, failure to obey, etc.) were implicated in these accidents. So it wasn't just about how well drivers complied or not with traffic laws or "courtesy rules of the road" or minor accidents or all of the other things that we tend talk about when we talk about how good a state's/locality's drivers are. They seemed to focus in on fatal accidents and the driving patterns that seemed to contribute to those fatal accidents.

I also noticed that they listed past years' results from the same study. One interesting observation quickly looking back over three years is that 2018 and 2020 worst state was Alaska, but, in 2019, Alaska was not even in the bottom 10. I doubt that Alaskans' driving habits (and drivers around the nation for that matter) really changed dramatically over three years. If a state can move a lot in these rankings with little to no change in driving habits, that suggests to me that either there is some flaw in the methodology or that drivers across the nation are almost equally good/bad.

Some states (like New Mexico) seem to consistently make their bottom 10. If you want to really talk about rankings, a pattern of consistently appearing on a list like this might be more meaningful than a single year's snapshot.

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2 hours ago, MrShorty said:

I also noted that the rankings seemed to be based on data for fatal accidents. So they looked at accidents where someone died, then looked at how frequently the specified factors (speed, failure to obey, etc.) were implicated in these accidents. So it wasn't just about how well drivers complied or not with traffic laws or "courtesy rules of the road" or minor accidents or all of the other things that we tend talk about when we talk about how good a state's/locality's drivers are. They seemed to focus in on fatal accidents and the driving patterns that seemed to contribute to those fatal accidents.

I also noticed that they listed past years' results from the same study. One interesting observation quickly looking back over three years is that 2018 and 2020 worst state was Alaska, but, in 2019, Alaska was not even in the bottom 10. I doubt that Alaskans' driving habits (and drivers around the nation for that matter) really changed dramatically over three years. If a state can move a lot in these rankings with little to no change in driving habits, that suggests to me that either there is some flaw in the methodology or that drivers across the nation are almost equally good/bad.

Some states (like New Mexico) seem to consistently make their bottom 10. If you want to really talk about rankings, a pattern of consistently appearing on a list like this might be more meaningful than a single year's snapshot.

If it is fatalities, that could explain Utah to a certain degree.  Utah could have extremely terrible drivers, but a LOT of them do NOT DRINK Alcohol.  A surprising number of people in other states drink Alcohol quite liberally and then many of them drive.  On New Years Eve or a few other evenings throughout the year, me and my spouse choose to avoid driving entirely due to how many intoxicated people will be on the roads in some states.  Drunk Driving (or buzzed driving) leads to fatalities in accidents.  Utah, though SLC may have more, it is still statistically significantly less, has less intoxication in general than any other state in the Union.  Intoxicated driving probably leads to far more deaths than many other factors.

Alaska probably has a harsher driving climate for much of the year.  If they drink as much in Alaska as some other states, that combined with the harsher weather conditions could lead to some very abnormal spikes occasionally.

 

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2 hours ago, MrShorty said:

I also noted that the rankings seemed to be based on data for fatal accidents. So they looked at accidents where someone died, then looked at how frequently the specified factors (speed, failure to obey, etc.) were implicated in these accidents. So it wasn't just about how well drivers complied or not with traffic laws or "courtesy rules of the road" or minor accidents or all of the other things that we tend talk about when we talk about how good a state's/locality's drivers are. They seemed to focus in on fatal accidents and the driving patterns that seemed to contribute to those fatal accidents.

I also noticed that they listed past years' results from the same study. One interesting observation quickly looking back over three years is that 2018 and 2020 worst state was Alaska, but, in 2019, Alaska was not even in the bottom 10. I doubt that Alaskans' driving habits (and drivers around the nation for that matter) really changed dramatically over three years. If a state can move a lot in these rankings with little to no change in driving habits, that suggests to me that either there is some flaw in the methodology or that drivers across the nation are almost equally good/bad.

Some states (like New Mexico) seem to consistently make their bottom 10. If you want to really talk about rankings, a pattern of consistently appearing on a list like this might be more meaningful than a single year's snapshot.

You bring up some good points - but also keep in mind that our society is very mobile.  Something that does not appear is the effect of illegal immigration.   50 years ago if someone was involved in an accident with someone without insurance - it was most likely (over 50%) that the uninsured party was illegally in this country.  However, point that out today is considered raciest.  Though this is not specifically listed among the stats and if I was a betting person - I would bet it is a contributing factor.

 

The Traveler

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21 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Driving in Salt Lake City's Rush Hour was bad...it was shorter than Los Angeles but the drivers in Utah have no care in the world.  It rained while I was there (in Utah) and they had car crashes...IN A LIGHT RAINFALL!!!  They can't drive in rain (though I suppose they can in snow).  They are some of the rudest drivers I've driven around...though they WERE actually more polite than those I found in Idaho (which were ruder still!) and Colorado.

 

I do not know what it is with Salt Lake County.  Many times when I am down there I see someone run a red traffic light.  These are not orange lights (lights that have just turned red) these are red lights.  Red for about three seconds or longer then they come barreling thru the intersection.  This is how you kill people.  People who run red traffic lights do not care about the lives and well being of others in my opinion. 

I do orange lights sometimes but I have to remind myself to be a courteous driver.  Running red traffic lights is very dangerous. 

If a traffic light changes red before your front bumper gets into the intersection in Utah you violated a red light.

Edited by Still_Small_Voice

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13 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

In Utah, there is an IMMENSE peer pressure simply from the fact that you are the slowest thing on the road if you drive the speed limit, and people will get hostile and angry at you (honking, tailgating, etc) if you drive anything slower.  I tend to drive around 60-65 regardless if the speed limit is higher in the state I am in, as that seems quite fast enough on the highway.  It also tends to save gas in some vehicles.  I do not see the need to drive faster than the speed limit except in extreme cases (ambulance driving someone to the hospital for example, police officer escorting a pregnant woman about to give birth...etc).

In my opinion 70 miles per hour is fast enough on the I-15 highway but if you drive that most people will pass you.  Regularly I am driving 75 miles per hour on I-15 to keep up with the flow of car traffic.

Edited by Still_Small_Voice

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1 hour ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

In my opinion 70 miles per hour is fast enough on the I-15 highway but if you drive that most people will pass you.  Regularly I am driving 75 miles per hour on I-15 to keep up with the flow of car traffic.

I heard of a Utah highway patrolman that pulled a car over on I-15 for driving way too slow.  It seems that the driver thought the highway sign was the speed limit.  Then the patrolman noticed that the two passengers in the back seat were both white as a ghost with apparent fear.   He asked if they were okay and they responded not really but they were much better after they got off of I-215 onto I-15.  😂

 

The Traveler

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17 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Which puzzles the world out of me.

I always thought that as members we are taught to respect and follow the laws of our respective lands and nations.  If we are willing to bend or fabricate around a law a little, that would apply to the way we adhere to many of the other laws, inclusive of the commandments in our lives as well. 

But, in some areas of the US where the Church dominates, it seems that members are more than willing to excuse breaking the law just a little bit on purpose, to get somewhere faster, or to get do other things.  It's an idea that I do not quite understand of WHY it is acceptable, but perhaps others can explain to me.

On the otherhand, people would complain that I normally am a slower driver.  In Utah, there is an IMMENSE peer pressure simply from the fact that you are the slowest thing on the road if you drive the speed limit, and people will get hostile and angry at you (honking, tailgating, etc) if you drive anything slower.  I tend to drive around 60-65 regardless if the speed limit is higher in the state I am in, as that seems quite fast enough on the highway.  It also tends to save gas in some vehicles.  I do not see the need to drive faster than the speed limit except in extreme cases (ambulance driving someone to the hospital for example, police officer escorting a pregnant woman about to give birth...etc).  I'll try to drive the speed limit on the roads that are not the highway, but generally am around 1 mile under it unless in a vehicle that allows me (some modern ones do) to be exactly on the speed limit.

I can understand someone doing it by mistake, but how they do it in Church dominated areas regarding the speed limit is a curiosity that I've never had anyone actually explain (at least that I remember at the moment, they may have, but I don't recall it at this time) why they do it.  Perhaps you can explain why you drive over the speed limit normally.

You mean to tell me you have never jaywalked, thrown away mail from a previous tenants of your home, sung and organized happy birthday/Christmas Songs/The Macarena at a public place without getting copy rights, driven without a seatbelt any amount of distance, offer a prescription Tylenol to a family or friend, fail to update your drivers license when you move states, peed behind a tree in a public camping ground, or not chased down a a receipt that blew out of your hand on a windy day after shopping?

Edited by Fether

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All I want is for the drivers of Iowa, many of whom are elderly, is to use their ($*#(  turn signals. Just once.

One of my sisters lived in rural Virginia. She said that when she went into town, she had to remember to use her turn signal because out in the country, often she would be the only one on the road, so no need to signal. Though I am in an area with a couple of small towns, there is farmland and very small towns around me, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of these folks forgot they weren't out in the cornfields anymore and needed to use their signal.

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7 hours ago, Fether said:

You mean to tell me you have never jaywalked, thrown away mail from a previous tenants of your home, sung and organized happy birthday/Christmas Songs/The Macarena at a public place without getting copy rights, driven without a seatbelt any amount of distance, offer a prescription Tylenol to a family or friend, fail to update your drivers license when you move states, peed behind a tree in a public camping ground, or not chased down a a receipt that blew out of your hand on a windy day after shopping?

 

These queries are rather specific. Most people KNOW about speed limits and why they are there...that question about receipts on the otherhand, I'm not so sure I know which law you are referring to.  It's not really something I've had to worry about, but it is oddly specific and not something that I think would be common knowledge.

Some of these are really odd as well...the Macarena?  I've heard the song, but I never really organized the Stake Youth Dances or other such things, so I have no idea whether the High Counselor or Young Men's/Young Woman's Stake President got the rights or not. 

However, I don't think that's the point you are trying to make...is it? 

Let's just say, for the sake of your questing...that for some reason I broke the law of some sort.  Let's say, instead of some of the rather specific things you listed (and no, I don't jaywalk either and no, I see no reason to not return someone else's mail to the postal carrier or if a neighbor, bring it to them...etc...etc...etc) I went out and was a serial murderer.  Rather than smaller legalities being broken (and I'm not sure all of yours are even breaking the law in some areas...for example...that thing about receipts...and Seat Belts are required in some states...but not everywhere as well...though I DO wear seatbelts as a matter of habit) let's go with a Big one.

We should compare examples that are more alike.  Many of what you list could not be understood by some (for example, public indecency laws are what I imagine you were inferring to when talking about individuals urinating on a tree in a public park...which is rather disgusting...there are public restrooms in most parks for a reason.  There may be some that do not know about these laws or come from areas that do not have them and thus are committing these infractions). 

However, those who speed regularly know EXACTLY what they are doing, and know they are breaking the law by speeding  (if nothing else, there is a driving test, normally with a written test, done regularly to see if one understands the laws of the road). 

So, let's go with me being a serial murderer who knowingly goes about breaking the law.  It is far worse than speeding by a long shot. 

How does my commission of a crime justify someone else breaking the law?

Edited by JohnsonJones

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I too was surprised by Utah's ranking. Husband sincerely believe that if you can't safely drive at least the posted speed limit in inclement weather, it's a sign you don't drive well enough to be out. Not to mention the people who insist tailgating is the official way to signal to someone they're driving too slow. I've had multiple people insist they were taught it in driver's ed. My own sister argued with me for years before she was sent to traffic school. She was amazed to learn otherwise.

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4 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

 

These queries are rather specific. Most people KNOW about speed limits and why they are there...that question about receipts on the otherhand, I'm not so sure I know which law you are referring to.  It's not really something I've had to worry about, but it is oddly specific and not something that I think would be common knowledge.

Some of these are really odd as well...the Macarena?  I've heard the song, but I never really organized the Stake Youth Dances or other such things, so I have no idea whether the High Counselor or Young Men's/Young Woman's Stake President got the rights or not. 

However, I don't think that's the point you are trying to make...is it? 

Let's just say, for the sake of your questing...that for some reason I broke the law of some sort.  Let's say, instead of some of the rather specific things you listed (and no, I don't jaywalk either and no, I see no reason to not return someone else's mail to the postal carrier or if a neighbor, bring it to them...etc...etc...etc) I went out and was a serial murderer.  Rather than smaller legalities being broken (and I'm not sure all of yours are even breaking the law in some areas...for example...that thing about receipts...and Seat Belts are required in some states...but not everywhere as well...though I DO wear seatbelts as a matter of habit) let's go with a Big one.

We should compare examples that are more alike.  Many of what you list could not be understood by some (for example, public indecency laws are what I imagine you were inferring to when talking about individuals urinating on a tree in a public park...which is rather disgusting...there are public restrooms in most parks for a reason.  There may be some that do not know about these laws or come from areas that do not have them and thus are committing these infractions). 

However, those who speed regularly know EXACTLY what they are doing, and know they are breaking the law by speeding  (if nothing else, there is a driving test, normally with a written test, done regularly to see if one understands the laws of the road). 

So, let's go with me being a serial murderer who knowingly goes about breaking the law.  It is far worse than speeding by a long shot. 

How does my commission of a crime justify someone else breaking the law?

I don’t see speeding as being a major law by any extent. I see it as being just as serious of a law as littering (letting a receipt blow away in the wind), copyright infringement, jaywalking, sharing a prescribed medicine (even if it was just a larger dose of Tylenol, or urinating behind a tree in. A public camp ground (public urination). 
 

If you think each of those are equally as grotesque as speeding then that is fine, go in your way of chastising me. But if you do not, then I just want us to be honest with our assessment of speeding.   

Edited by Fether

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3 hours ago, Backroads said:

I too was surprised by Utah's ranking. Husband sincerely believe that if you can't safely drive at least the posted speed limit in inclement weather, it's a sign you don't drive well enough to be out. Not to mention the people who insist tailgating is the official way to signal to someone they're driving too slow. I've had multiple people insist they were taught it in driver's ed. My own sister argued with me for years before she was sent to traffic school. She was amazed to learn otherwise.

I was one of those ones that drove in snow at the speed I felt safest at.  I pretty much only drove around time so I stayed on surface streets.  I figured if someone thought I was going to slow they could go around me.  I didn't care.  Of course it wasn't like I was going 5 mph. 

Now here in Texas it's rain.  I've never seen it rain as hard anywhere else I've lived.  To where you can barely see the car in front of you.  Plus the problem of standing water.  And I still see idiots flying by me.

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40 minutes ago, pam said:

Now here in Texas it's rain.  I've never seen it rain as hard anywhere else I've lived.  To where you can barely see the car in front of you.  Plus the problem of standing water.  And I still see idiots flying by me.

The people driving fast around you probably have 4x4 or all wheel drive in their vehicles.  With 4x4 you can drive any speed you wish in any type of conditions.  It's a proven fact.  🤪

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1 hour ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

The people driving fast around you probably have 4x4 or all wheel drive in their vehicles.  With 4x4 you can drive any speed you wish in any type of conditions.  It's a proven fact.  🤪

They still slide on ice just like any other car.  And no they all weren't 4X4.  Normal cars.

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8 hours ago, Fether said:

I don’t see speeding as being a major law by any extent. I see it as being just as serious of a law as littering (letting a receipt blow away in the wind), copyright infringement, jaywalking, sharing a prescribed medicine (even if it was just a larger dose of Tylenol, or urinating behind a tree in. A public camp ground (public urination). 
 

If you think each of those are equally as grotesque as speeding then that is fine, go in your way of chastising me. But if you do not, then I just want us to be honest with our assessment of speeding.   

I'm not chastising you, I'm curious why you think it's okay to speed.  From you comments are you also saying you are okay with littering, jaywalking, sharing a prescribed medicine (please tell me you don't do this...that's actually probably worse than speeding or any of the other items you mention) or public indecency. 

These are NOT okay in my book, but I wasn't actually commenting on them.  I understand (at least in some instances) that there are many people that do not know some of these things are laws and thus do them by accident.  There can be occasional mixups with people, but speeding tends to be entirely different.

The reason, is that in order to get a license you must study to pass a test over the laws of the road.  After you pass that test you have to take a driving test in many locations.  After that, at least every few years, most locations also have you take another written or other type of test to ensure you still understand.  Those who speed do so under full knowledge that they are breaking the laws.

In Utah, at least between Salt Lake and Provo this seems to be the norm rather than the exception.  As a majority there are members of the Church, and the Church teaches to obey the laws of the land...it strikes me as strange that so many choose to speed.  Does this ability to try to excuse speeding translate to how they handle other rules as well?  T

It isn't you, it seems that it is a common mindset, but one that I don't exactly understand.  I'm trying to understand why people would do this?  What is going through their heads?  It is obviously breaking the law, but they obviously also feel it is justified and the correct course of action?

Is it because they feel it is just a minor infraction?  Does this also apply to other rules as well?  Does it apply to commandments also (just a small sin...nothing more).  As it would be something done on purpose (not by accident) it raises my question even more.  It is an active choice to do so.  What is the reasoning?

It's just me trying to understand the viewpoint of those who do so (and as I said, it seems there are a LOT of members with this viewpoint, so understanding why they feel and think this way could be useful).

This isn't condemnation, but trying to understand the viewpoint of those who do so.  If you break the speed limit a little, you make a prime person to ask.  I don't understand it, but you probably do.  If you could just explain it to me of why?

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31 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'm not chastising you, I'm curious why you think it's okay to speed.  From you comments are you also saying you are okay with littering, jaywalking, sharing a prescribed medicine (please tell me you don't do this...that's actually probably worse than speeding or any of the other items you mention) or public indecency. 

These are NOT okay in my book, but I wasn't actually commenting on them.  I understand (at least in some instances) that there are many people that do not know some of these things are laws and thus do them by accident.  There can be occasional mixups with people, but speeding tends to be entirely different.

The reason, is that in order to get a license you must study to pass a test over the laws of the road.  After you pass that test you have to take a driving test in many locations.  After that, at least every few years, most locations also have you take another written or other type of test to ensure you still understand.  Those who speed do so under full knowledge that they are breaking the laws.

In Utah, at least between Salt Lake and Provo this seems to be the norm rather than the exception.  As a majority there are members of the Church, and the Church teaches to obey the laws of the land...it strikes me as strange that so many choose to speed.  Does this ability to try to excuse speeding translate to how they handle other rules as well?  T

It isn't you, it seems that it is a common mindset, but one that I don't exactly understand.  I'm trying to understand why people would do this?  What is going through their heads?  It is obviously breaking the law, but they obviously also feel it is justified and the correct course of action?

Is it because they feel it is just a minor infraction?  Does this also apply to other rules as well?  Does it apply to commandments also (just a small sin...nothing more).  As it would be something done on purpose (not by accident) it raises my question even more.  It is an active choice to do so.  What is the reasoning?

It's just me trying to understand the viewpoint of those who do so (and as I said, it seems there are a LOT of members with this viewpoint, so understanding why they feel and think this way could be useful).

This isn't condemnation, but trying to understand the viewpoint of those who do so.  If you break the speed limit a little, you make a prime person to ask.  I don't understand it, but you probably do.  If you could just explain it to me of why?

 

We all have some line in the law we are willing to break for convenience. Whether it’s not putting on your seatbelt on to move your car 20 feet for a family member, singing happy birthday day at a church event, letting a piece of paper of yours to blow away in the wind, Running a red light at 3am cause you have been waiting for 15 minutes for it to change, or jaywalking across a mostly empty Main Street cause the nearest crossing is a 20 minute walk away.

sure there are different levels of seriousness to each little law and consistently speeding is probably on the more serious end. But my point is that we all have a line of what laws are appropriate to break at what time. 

I definitely see Speeding as “not ok”. My complaint is that you seem to be virtue signaling a specific law that many see as not important but you take great pride in obeying. I’m just trying to counter your thinking and show that we are all guilty of disobeying “minor” laws, but still choose to do it out of convenience.
 

But yes, I don’t think it’s a big deal to speed. Especially when everyone else is speeding, at that point it is a matter of safety and not obedience.
 

Ultimately I am trying to answer your question by explaining to you that there are tiny laws we all ignore out of convenience and that it shouldn’t be grounds to question ones level of obedience to the gospel

If there is an issue here, it isn’t a Utah problem but a world wide problem. Saints all over the world are dropping receipts, peeing behind trees, jaywalking across empty streets, running red lights in the middle of the night when there are no cars, singing happy birthday at young men/women’s, and sharing prescribed Tylenol to family with headaches.

Edited by Fether

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11 hours ago, pam said:

They still slide on ice just like any other car.  And no they all weren't 4X4.  Normal cars.

Did you miss the sarcastic joke on my other comment about some four by four drivers feeling they are invincible?  You were supposed to laugh at me. 

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